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Downing and Simpson - Any Insight and youth possibilities


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Apologies in advance - a polite request - if this thread could be a hysteria free zone, there are plenty of other threads here to vent our fanbase's collective fury, vitriol and disgust at anything and everything that has happened in the past few weeks. Each to their own, if that's your vibe, then so be it, but a naïve plea for this thread to be safe from the anger and calls for Lansdowns head.

So, the OTIB view on Holden seems to be pretty well documented, but what about the other two? A couple of points of discussion:

1) Do we have any England youth followers? Do we broadly know the standing Simpson and Downing have? Theur ethos, playing style/mentality? Simpsons had some stints at Shrewsbury and the like, do some of our more encyclopedic members have any recollection of these stints? My belief is that the approach will be for both to have a fair amount of say in our setup next season (not sure I've seen a 'coaching team photo like the one on the OS before, an indication of how it will be a fairly equitable decision making unit?), so it'd be interesting to her any insight into their football minds. 

 

2) Do we think both could hold some sway in convincing England youngsters to come to city? If you look at the squads with which both took to silverware with in the last few years, there are some significant talents among them, and it'll be interesting if any of them would be keen to link up with City because of this. My personal opinion is we could see one or two promising young English loan signings due to this, which I would personally find quite exciting

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2 minutes ago, tunnie12345 said:

They have 3 collective relegation between then 2 from league 2 to non league and 1 from league 1 to league 2 :) should fit right in with our ethos

Surely this cannot be true. The club's extensive due diligence would have identified that as a problem!

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, tunnie12345 said:

They have 3 collective relegations between then 2 from league 2 to non league and 1 from league 1 to league 2 :) should fit right in with our ethos... Our ethos being no ambition! 

Just looking into their records now, quite the one sided story there. Simpson did indeed see Carlisle relegated to the conference, but was under transfer embargo. Then led them to two successive promotions to League One. 

 

Also reached a playoff final with Shrewsbury. So two promotions, one play off final and a youth world cup, with one relegation

Edited by underhanded
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These top young payers will turn up for England, have 2.3 light training sessions, play a game and go back to their clubs.

These coaches have no input into these players, they are just coaches that can’t get jobs anywhere else....,,,, until now 🤷‍♂️

 

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9 minutes ago, underhanded said:

Just looking into their records now, quite the one sided story there. Simpson did indeed see Carlisle relegated to the conference, but was under transfer embargo. Then led them to two successive promotions to League One. 

 

Also reached a playoff final with Shrewsbury. So two promotions, one play off final and a youth world cup, with one relegation

So a better option than Dean Holden?

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4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

These top young payers will turn up for England, have 2.3 light training sessions, play a game and go back to their clubs.

These coaches have no input into these players, they are just coaches that can’t get jobs anywhere else....,,,, until now 🤷‍♂️

 

In terms of training, coaching methods etc. You have a point. But are you telling me you think that a head coach would have zero emotional/motivational sway on a young player that he led to a world title? I would argue this is pretty feasible.

 

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18 minutes ago, tunnie12345 said:

They have 3 collective relegations between then 2 from league 2 to non league and 1 from league 1 to league 2 :) should fit right in with our ethos... Our ethos being no ambition! 

Spin: they’re experienced in relegation battles. 

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It's undoubtedly the most intriguing part of the whole thing. However, I don't think we really know what Holden's tactics or set up will be. I can't imagine LJ's ego allowing him to take too many tips or suggestions from Dean. Certainly when I watched the training session last season it was LJ doing all the tactics and movement work whilst "Deano" just had the lads for 45 minutes at the end to, and I quote Johnson, "finish them off and knacker them out".

Maybe Holden has a load of ideas and these two can help him implement them.

Maybe I'm out-thinking myself and attempting to clutch at the thinnest of straws.

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So the OP politely asks people to leave their issues with the appointments to the 20 other topics discussing it but they can't help themselves.

This forum is going to full of broken records for a while by the looks of it.

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Just now, Redrascal2 said:

I know little about them but can they be up to much if they are happy to leave England to be Holden's assistants. It is hardly a dream move. 

Thanks for that input as the OP requested! Do you feel relieved to get that off your chest now?

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Trying to be positive here....

One point I would make is that we are often told of how many talented young players we have in our academy and Youth setup. Given that, it has always surprised me how few actually make it to Championship standard (lets say >20 appearances).  

Maybe these two coaches can turn a few of "young players with potential" into First team players?

Maybe they can also turn players like Moore, Vyner, Massengo, Morrell and Walsh from players "in and around" the first team into first team regulars?

Edited by cityal
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1 hour ago, underhanded said:

In terms of training, coaching methods etc. You have a point. But are you telling me you think that a head coach would have zero emotional/motivational sway on a young player that he led to a world title? I would argue this is pretty feasible.

 

Personally no, the clubs control where their players play.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Just because they networked well enough to get those FA roles it doesnt follow automatically that the players rated them

No, but to be fair, it doesn’t mean they don’t rate them. If someone was “the boss” when I became a World Champion, I think I’d probably think fondly of them. 

Can’t answer your question OP as I know nowt about England age group football, but you’d hope it gives us some chance of getting good young ‘uns here. 

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Just now, Southport Red said:

No, but to be fair, it doesn’t mean they don’t rate them. If someone was “the boss” when I became a World Champion, I think I’d probably think fondly of them. 

Can’t answer your question OP as I know nowt about England age group football, but you’d hope it gives us some chance of getting good young ‘uns here. 

A good response . the wins should help

To be clear Im not saying they are rated / respected or not - just its not a given due their FA labels

 

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45 minutes ago, cityal said:

Trying to be positive here....

One point I would make is that we are often told of how many talented young players we have in our academy and Youth setup. Given that, it has always surprised me how few actually make it to Championship standard (lets say >20 appearances).  

Maybe these two coaches can turn a few of "young players with potential" into First team players?

Maybe they can also turn players like Moore, Vyner, Massengo, Morrell and Walsh from players "in and around" the first team into first team regulars?

Let's get this straight. They would have virtually zero input into the development of young England players. All that happens with their clubs. 

I see absolutely no reason why we might expect them to improve our youngsters. Have we let any of our existing youth coaches go - apparently not. 

I cringed when Twentyman asked Downing if they had discussed who would do what between them. His answer was along the lines of 'no, but I'll do whatever I can to support Dean who is a good guy.'

I think all 3 of them have probably been promoted beyond their level of competence and can't believe their luck. Coaches only end up at the FA when no-one will give them a proper job. 

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Just to emphasise how different youth football internationally is from the adult game, England beat Venezuela in the final.

Venezuela have never qualified for a full World Cup 

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I notice on the sky sport report that the FA have around £300m debt to sort out and all junior coaches have been told there job is at risk. So not so much we have enticed them to this great project as that we have secured employment for them. 

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