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Twentyman


JBFC II

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20 minutes ago, super slick said:

I ******* hate the bloke and Jon Lansdown for that matter.

I know it’s not a constructive point, it’s not offering anything to the debate and nobody will really care, but I’d like it on the Forum record! 

Noted.

For the record, what are your thoughts on Steve Lansdown, the person responsible for putting these two people in the top positions of the club we support?

 

 

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He did and in Kevin Keegan voice - he went right down in my estimation when he said that

Not sure if that was the trigger for me to start looking at football finances.  I am grateful for his millions, but it’s not all throwaway is it....he’s got a bloody big asset as a result.

And the mechanism and route to develop the surrounding areas. 

Ive posted elsewhere that whilst I appreciate Steve Lansdown’s input, let’s not run away with the idea that it’s some act of altruism.

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13 minutes ago, 42nite said:

Noted.

For the record, what are your thoughts on Steve Lansdown, the person responsible for putting these two people in the top positions of the club we support?

 

 

Not a massive fan, Grateful for what he’s done in the past but fed up of his bullshit

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Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

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3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

I agree to some extent.  I think we all need to get our heads around he fact that he is, in reality, SL’s voice/henchman. 

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9 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

In defence of Mark Ashton he has said tonight and in the past that the head coach has final say on incomings,

Yes, but the devil’s in the detail there, isn’t it? The final say could be no more than “do you want him or not?” Or it could be a deep involvement and influence at all stages of the recruitment and ‘funnelling’ process. These are two very different things for a coach, and it seems likely that our system is closer to the former than the latter.

There is zero evidence at this moment of time that anyone else was offered the job before DH.  

This is a red herring. This sort of appointment involves lots of two-way negotiation and you can get a long way down the line, both sides expecting that a job offer will be made, before hitting a snag. A formal job offer won’t be made until both sides know it’s going to be accepted. So the fact we didn't make an offer doesn’t mean we didn’t think we’d identified someone we were planning to make an offer to.

It is likely that the other names would not fit into our structure.

I’m convinced this is the case. The question is: what was it about our structure that they weren’t prepared to work with? I don’t believe that in the current environment any prospective coach would be expecting a massive war chest from a club like Bristol City, without parachute payments. Chris Hughton certainly strikes me as intelligent enough to know before he applied for the job that he’d have to work within fairly tight financial constraints. So what was it? Not enough control of transfer targets? Unwillingness to have the owner interfering in squad/team matters? We don't know, but it's at least possible no self-respecting top coach would work with some elements of our structure.

Having said which, when I was working I more than once decided not to take a job because I decided at interview that I didn’t trust the slimeball who was interviewing me, and to whom I'd have to report. Maybe it’s not the structure that’s the issue, but the people in it.
 

 

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26 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

Agreed, but when your boss (SL) comes out and says what he did on the talksport interview, for someone underneath him (MA) to then basically contradict him because of the "season of austerity", you begin to wonder who is pulling all of the strings.

Obviously SL finances the club, so he has ultimate control, but to an outsider looking in, you could be forgiven for thinking that MA runs the club, and SL is his employee, and got a bit carried away when talking about the type of person he would like to see in charge.

SL is by no means a stupid man, but that interview has made him look like he has no clue as to what is going on at the club.

Also worth noting, that this is the interview that basically told us "customers" that we were to expect a nice new shiny Mercedes to get us to our final destination. Instead, we ended up with a 15 year old Nissan that has ended up in a few accidents, and has had a few new parts added to it to make it look a bit shinier and new than it really is.

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5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

One thing I regret that Twentyman didn’t ask was about the finances for the coming year .

 

Ashton did casually drop in that there would be some movement but it would be balanced with player trading once again. Think it was a very quick bit when talking about Fam etc 

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

The expectation is still to challenge for promotion.  Austerity doesn’t negate that.

1 hour ago, lager loud said:

 

Spot on Chris.  It is up to Dean and the assistants to push the Recruitment Team to find the best players. And if the wrong players are coming out if the funnel, they need to call it out.  Perhaps they need to educate the analysts (and CEO) as to what data makes a good footballer, or a good footballer that fits the way they want to play.

Re Hughton, yes, surely he knew the financial constraints of covid, even on a well (financially) run club like City.  Surely those early informal and formal discussions teased that out.  But that can only mean it’s control over ins and outs.  It’s not about Hughton’s own staff set up, because Holden has brought two new guys in (compo to FA?) and sacked one (compo to Macca?).

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14 hours ago, RAD_Red said:

“I spoke to Lee numerous times every day”.

Why? This just shows how MA has far too much control at City and likely had a significant say in the new coach.

Why would the CEO need to speak to the manager multiple times daily, surely LJ would have been focused on picking the team, coaching etc - things which MA should have no input in?

Sounds like he likes to micro manage which is probably why we haven't got a more experienced manager. 

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2 minutes ago, lager loud said:

He said no-one from the recruitment team had left. I don’t know if analysts are considered part of that team. 

Sam Stanton and the other guy who’ve lost their jobs are performance analysts.  Sean Gilhespy runs the talent ID analysts.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Sam Stanton and the other guy who’ve lost their jobs are performance analysts.  Sean Gilhespy runs the talent ID analysts.

So there are people who’ve lost their jobs, but MA chose his words carefully so as not to tell an outright lie but avoiding answering the question he knew was intended?

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13 hours ago, Super said:

Pat Lam is a big name in Rugby. Holden is a nobody.

Yes and no, Lam got sacked from NZ Blues and ended up at Connaught (Irish strugglers) where he wasn't recognised as a truly great coach/DoR until he won the Pro12(now 14) with them against the odds and lesser financial backing vs other Irish regions. He's a hot property for sure and getting bigger all the time especially after what he's doing here with us but Lam wasn't the biggest name in the coaching world, those being the international ones and those with repeated title successes (which Lam is yet to do, I'm sure its just a matter of time however). Arguably his predecessor, Andy Robinson, was a historically bigger name having coached the shower down the road to EU champions cup glory, England Rugby manager, etc... but Lam is the much better of the two and a bit of a coup for Bristol.

Out of all the candidates Hughton seemed the closest comparison to Lam IMO. Well respected, knows the modern game and had decent success yet still points to prove and wants to try pushing on to the next level with the right setup/club. Even if Hughton wasn't the right fit (he genuinely might not have been) I would have loved City to be provided with a similar option to Bears that matches the ambition but that hasn't seemed to have happened. I believe SL was genuine when on Talksport a while back, I suspect he will be watching Ashton and his appointment quite closely. Could be that a new CEO/board refresh will be required if it doesn't work out.

All the best to Holden however, I like how he talks. Just deliver premier league football (or at least a good go in the playoffs) and I'll be happy. 

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5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

It is his fault Major. Not the events, but they way they were handled. The five week radio silence was ridiculous. Stories emerged about Gerrard, Hughton, Cook, the wacky German geezer etc and, nothing. Media management in the Social Age is crucial (and very easy). Seeing as how MA seems obsessed with ‘messaging’ and ‘Optics’, these were large failures on his part. 

I have worked as CEO in a privately held business before now and most of my job was keeping the owner out of jail ?

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6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Mark Ashton is not everyone’s cup of tea, amongst other things he has a strange intonation due to his midlands accent , but it wasn’t him who declared that we got rid of LJ to bring in someone to take us to the next level etc . 
 

Ashton talked about ‘ a season of austerity ‘ whilst our owner raised hopes of us finally joining the ranks of the movers and shakers in the game.

Mixed messages and evident disappointment when our existing number 2 was unveiled. 
 

Not entirely Ashton’s fault .

 

Good point that, very mixed messages indeed. 

'Season of austerity' as mentioned in April seems more realistic which begs the question ad to why SL went on Talksport and said what he did.

Two diametrically opposed views/predictions by two of the top brass at the club. Seems odd!

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