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The Owner’s and Board’s Plan


QuedgeRed

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It’s obvious.

Manager is a yes man who will go along with it. 
Bring players up through the academy or buy youngsters and train. Bring them on into first team.

Sell for profit, hopefully one or two very large fees here and there.

I don’t expect any ‘big’ signings or experienced players brought in. 
 

We are a selling club from now. A money generating club.

It won’t work.

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Not going to say I am pleased with this, as I think arguably we were an experienced manager away from the play offs and have not gone that route.

However, I think it is worth looking at what this says of the ‘strategy’.

Too many of our fans confuse ‘going for it’ with the amount we spend. We simply do not have the funding, or if SL decided we did are not allowed to spend what it would take to compete financially with the teams with parachute payments. Financially there will always be bigger fish in the sea than us. That is just fact. It is not a marginal difference.

Teams do go up with that handicap, but the stars need to align. We will therefore always be in that sense a selling club. How many teams really are not? We need a different way to compete.

The chosen route is to go for young players with potential and develop them well. It’s frustrating when we sell, but arguably for the last couple of seasons it has given us £10m more a season to invest in the club. It givees us a chance to narrow the gap with the big spenders. The money generated has pretty much been reinvested in the club.

There are also self evident risks with it of course. However, it is the chosen strategy and the additional coaches must strengthen our appeal in that market.

It is actually pretty brave and bold to try and carve out that niche. It may turn out to be reckless, and I worry deeply about Ashton’s role. However I kind of have to applaud they have double downed on their strategy and refused to change it purely because of relatively short term considerations.

My take, anyway.

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23 minutes ago, QuedgeRed said:

It’s obvious.

Manager is a yes man who will go along with it. 
Bring players up through the academy or buy youngsters and train. Bring them on into first team.

Sell for profit, hopefully one or two very large fees here and there.

I don’t expect any ‘big’ signings or experienced players brought in. 
 

We are a selling club from now. A money generating club.

It won’t work.

Have you spotted the likely lack of income this season? Or the reality of being a development club? Or the lack of success and unsustainability of continually buying in players with little hope of recouping outlay?

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This coming season is going to bankrupt a fair few clubs and I'm glad we have appointed holden on the cheap and can replace him cheap if it does start going wrong.This coming season and the next will be all about championship survival. 

I think the club have done everything possible to ensure our long term survival and not gambling everything they have done to jeopardise long term success. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, QuedgeRed said:

It’s obvious.

Manager is a yes man who will go along with it. 
Bring players up through the academy or buy youngsters and train. Bring them on into first team.

Sell for profit, hopefully one or two very large fees here and there.

I don’t expect any ‘big’ signings or experienced players brought in. 
 

We are a selling club from now. A money generating club.

It won’t work.

**** the owner. **** Mark Ashton 

Absolute liars the pair of them 

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34 minutes ago, Furious Custard said:

This coming season is going to bankrupt a fair few clubs and I'm glad we have appointed holden on the cheap and can replace him cheap if it does start going wrong.This coming season and the next will be all about championship survival. 

I think the club have done everything possible to ensure our long term survival and not gambling everything they have done to jeopardise long term success. 

 

 

 

Peculiar F**ktard, why not come clean about this policy in the beginning when sacking LJ?

Instead spouting BS about ‘taking the next step’ ‘breath of fresh air’ only a couple of examples.

They have done untold damage to the majority of the fan base with this deception.

They are no longer trusted.

 

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Lansdown is never going to invest heavily in the playing squad as the last time he did that in the Championship we ended up getting relegated by about 15 points. Lansdown will have seen clubs like Huddersfield get promoted without much investment and automatically assume City can do the same. He also won’t want a big name manager e.g. Coppell as he’ll challenge the status quo too much. 

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17 minutes ago, QuedgeRed said:

Peculiar F**ktard, why not come clean about this policy in the beginning when sacking LJ?

Instead spouting BS about ‘taking the next step’ ‘breath of fresh air’ only a couple of examples.

They have done untold damage to the majority of the fan base with this deception.

They are no longer trusted.

 

I'm sorry I can't answer that one. 

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A lot of people back the plan, and for understandable reasons, but there is an inherent flaw that many have highlighted for years - one that recently came true.

The board demands continual and steady growth. That in itself is not a bad thing to want, but the problem is that not achieving this growth is what got Lee Johnson fired.

Despite having no money to spend, the club will expect at a minimum an improvement on last season.

Let me ask you as a fan - is that okay? By dropping places this season we are essentially two years behind, meaning that to get to the same position with the same level of "happy" growth the club will need to more seasons to get back to where we were last season. In that time, all it takes is one bad season, and we're behind once again.

Sure, the stars align for some clubs, and they produce long-term growth and become genuine forces at the top of the table, but do they align for several years in a row? Not only is this extremely rare, but it also negates the individual effect that any player or head coach can have on a side.

In some ways, this IS the plan. The club has suffered due to individual error, paying overinflated wages/salaries, hiring the wrong coach, etc. As a result, Lansdown wants complete control over all matters. The only thing that Lansdown and Ashton aren't involved in are picking the team.

Ultimately, this is their decision, and while Holden will get my full support, the person that should ALL the blame is Steve Lansdown. Holden might do a great job, but the fact is that Lansdown believes his approach is better than what a man with proven experience in promoting teams is capable of.

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FFP is part of it. 

Problem is this part of it isn't optional. It is something all clubs have to abide by or face consequences, ranging from possible EFL oversight at lower levels if things look like they are taking off financially to an Independent Disciplinary Commission if held in breach. 

We bemoan the sale and trading of players and it has some justification but I am keen on hearing an alternative plan.

I don't want the club to risk a potential soft embargo, us having to run transfers by the EFL or even the Disciplinary Commission which has a wide range of punishments. Do you?

What say you @QuedgeRed ? How do we get the balance.

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3 minutes ago, redrob said:

Uh didnt we run a £10m+ profit last financial year?

I must admit I don't know. But I'm pretty sure if you look at the full time SL has been in charge then we're down a few quid...

Just now, Judda said:

I must admit I don't know. But I'm pretty sure if you look at the full time SL has been in charge then we're down a few quid...

And he's probably done better with his business financially. 

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4 minutes ago, Judda said:

I must admit I don't know. But I'm pretty sure if you look at the full time SL has been in charge then we're down a few quid...

And he's probably done better with his business financially. 

You said 'we have never run a profit'. Sounded like you thought we had not. Bit silly to say 'I don't know' having just said that. 

 

True we have probably not run a profit over the entirety of SLs time. But then the last 3-4 years would appear to be a different approach which looks to be a more sustainable way to run a football club. Personally speaking, I would rather not see the club run in a way that puts us at risk of FFP penalties or worst at risk of going bust. Football fans have short memories but perhaps we all need to be reminded of what happened the last time the club seriously put itself on the line financially.

 

End of the day, DH is our Head Coach now and he needs our support but should be judged on performances and results like anyone else would be.

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I appreciate that it’s a tough balance but breaking even in the Championship and achieving promotion at the same time are nigh on impossible.
As I have posted on previous threads, the only place where the club becomes financially stable or even making a profit is in the Premier League, so the answer has to be getting there. And continually selling your best players and hoping to find cheaper young replacements undermines the chances of that being achieved.
Brentford have been following a similar path (using European feeder clubs rather than an academy) for longer than us (and appointed their assistant to head coach - although it didn’t take them 5 weeks!) and yet they still blew it at the end, and will be playing in the Championship again next season, but likely minus Watkins and Benhrama. Their combined fees will still be as nothing compared to how much money would come into the club from promotion to the Premier League.

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4 minutes ago, redrob said:

You said 'we have never run a profit'. Sounded like you thought we had not. Bit silly to say 'I don't know' having just said that. 

 

True we have probably not run a profit over the entirety of SLs time. But then the last 3-4 years would appear to be a different approach which looks to be a more sustainable way to run a football club. Personally speaking, I would rather not see the club run in a way that puts us at risk of FFP penalties or worst at risk of going bust. Football fans have short memories but perhaps we all need to be reminded of what happened the last time the club seriously put itself on the line financially.

 

End of the day, DH is our Head Coach now and he needs our support but should be judged on performances and results like anyone else would be.

I was just making the point that he isn't using the club to get rich. I think he's done pretty well with that with his business and has no need to do this.

People who dislike him I personally think are mad. I'd rather have him than some rich foreigner who then strips all assets when he's got bored of his play thing...

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1 minute ago, Judda said:

I was just making the point that he isn't using the club to get rich. I think he's done pretty well with that with his business and has no need to do this.

People who dislike him I personally think are mad. I'd rather have him than some rich foreigner who then strips all assets when he's got bored of his play thing...

I agree with everything you said there btw!

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11 minutes ago, redrob said:

You said 'we have never run a profit'. Sounded like you thought we had not. Bit silly to say 'I don't know' having just said that. 

 

True we have probably not run a profit over the entirety of SLs time. But then the last 3-4 years would appear to be a different approach which looks to be a more sustainable way to run a football club. Personally speaking, I would rather not see the club run in a way that puts us at risk of FFP penalties or worst at risk of going bust. Football fans have short memories but perhaps we all need to be reminded of what happened the last time the club seriously put itself on the line financially.

 

End of the day, DH is our Head Coach now and he needs our support but should be judged on performances and results like anyone else would be.

I agree with all your points there btw

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34 minutes ago, redrob said:

Uh didnt we run a £10m+ profit last financial year?

According to the Bristol City Holdings Accounts.

We ran a profit of £11-12m- but based on £38m or thereabouts of disposal of player registrations- which was inclusive of the Kelly sale.

This financial year also included two concerts- Rod Stewart and Take That- as well as the World Cup Fans Village in the summer of 2018.

Despite the third line about what the financial year/Reporting Period included in terms of positive revenue streams but was not counting Disposal on Player Sales, we still made an Operating Loss of £26m which is fairly staggering!!

That in turn though is different to cash flow.

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7 minutes ago, Judda said:

I was just making the point that he isn't using the club to get rich. I think he's done pretty well with that with his business and has no need to do this.

People who dislike him I personally think are mad. I'd rather have him than some rich foreigner who then strips all assets when he's got bored of his play thing...

See your point. And yes me too. Said it already but would definitely want the club run in a sustainable way rather than gambling the future of the club.

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14 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

I appreciate that it’s a tough balance but breaking even in the Championship and achieving promotion at the same time are nigh on impossible.
As I have posted on previous threads, the only place where the club becomes financially stable or even making a profit is in the Premier League, so the answer has to be getting there. And continually selling your best players and hoping to find cheaper young replacements undermines the chances of that being achieved.
Brentford have been following a similar path (using European feeder clubs rather than an academy) for longer than us (and appointed their assistant to head coach - although it didn’t take them 5 weeks!) and yet they still blew it at the end, and will be playing in the Championship again next season, but likely minus Watkins and Benhrama. Their combined fees will still be as nothing compared to how much money would come into the club from promotion to the Premier League.

Technically, with our relative size we could make a profit/break even as a higher end League One club IMO, or a higher end League One club that yoyos between the two Leagues- given our off pitch income streams, and our productive academy and propensity for Cup runs at times.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Technically, with our relative size we could make a profit/break even as a higher end League One club IMO, or a higher end League One club that yoyos between the two Leagues- given our off pitch income streams, and our productive academy and propensity for Cup runs at times.

Agreed but are the fans really going to be satisfied with that as we have seen other clubs we used to play in League 1 push one and get to the Premier League, especially given all the investment that we have seen? No. It can work for Rotherham or even Barnsley but our ambitions have to be higher than that.

The problem is that building the stadium etc is the easy bit, relatively speaking. There are risks but compared to the playing side they are minimal. And after all this time SL has still only had 2 managers win him a promotion back to this level, and each time it was on the back of poor choices immediately before, which suggests that the club still lacks real football insight I.e. not Mark Ashton.

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Just now, Dr Balls said:

Agreed but are the fans really going to be satisfied with that as we have seen other clubs we used to play in League 1 push one and get to the Premier League, especially given all the investment that we have seen? No. It can work for Rotherham or even Barnsley but our ambitions have to be higher than that.

The problem is that building the stadium etc is the easy bit, relatively speaking. There are risks but compared to the playing side they are minimal. And after all this time SL has still only had 2 managers win him a promotion back to this level, and each time it was on the back of poor choices immediately before, which suggests that the club still lacks real football insight I.e. not Mark Ashton.

Course we wouldn't, I'm not saying it is at all a palatable or ideal option- just that it is a potentially profitable/breakeven one!

Tend to agree- O'Driscoll was a good manager prior to joining us though, or a respectable one anyway- think we were a shambles back then but yeah the record is patchy at best!

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17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

According to the Bristol City Holdings Accounts.

We ran a profit of £11-12m- but based on £38m or thereabouts of disposal of player registrations- which was inclusive of the Kelly sale.

This financial year also included two concerts- Rod Stewart and Take That- as well as the World Cup Fans Village in the summer of 2018.

Despite the third line about what the financial year/Reporting Period included in terms of positive revenue streams but was not counting Disposal on Player Sales, we still made an Operating Loss of £26m which is fairly staggering!!

That in turn though is different to cash flow.

But isn’t that the point? It’s player sales that are keeping the club afloat and that’s the “sustainable” model favoured by SL so that he doesn’t have to keep shelling out and/or risk breaching FFP rules.

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