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Holden has left the club


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https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/rory-holden-secures-walsall-move/

RORY HOLDEN SECURES WALSALL MOVE

TUESDAY, AUGUST 11TH 2020

Forward Rory Holden has completed a transfer to Walsall for an undisclosed fee.

The Northern Ireland Under-21 returns to the Saddlers following a loan spell in the 2019/20 campaign.

The Derry-born youngster impressed with a return of two goals in 36 appearances in all competitions last term.

Holden began his career at Derry City before signing for the Robins in the summer of 2017 after a successful trial.

The club wishes Rory a bright and successful future.

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Obviously the player being alluded to last week.

Can’t comment on him, but clear we need to move several on, as we had masses out on loan last season & many of them simply won’t make Championship standard.

Needs to be followed by 4 or 5 more leaving.

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I trust the club on that one.

People on here saying coaches thought he could play in our team this season and were surprised he is being sold. 

No chance surely! Walsall fans slagged him off much of his time there and he came good near the end of his loan. That's league two. Can't see him being a quality championship player now.

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7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I trust the club on that one.

People on here saying coaches thought he could play in our team this season and were surprised he is being sold. 

No chance surely! Walsall fans slagged him off much of his time there and he came good near the end of his loan. That's league two. Can't see him being a quality championship player now.

Trust the club all you want. 
I know that LJ & JMc thought highly of him and he was one they’d earmarked as ‘maybe’ having a little bit of first team squad exposure next season. 
 

I don’t care one way or the other about that though. What I’ve alluded to is ‘how’ this transfer has been conducted. 
This move was completed nearly 2 weeks ago. We didn’t want to announce it as we didn’t want to make it look like we’d sold a player without a manager having a final say. 
Funny that as soon as we put a manager in place that it’s now announced - 2 weeks after it was done and dusted. 
Tell me again who has ‘control’ over ins and outs?? 

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9 minutes ago, Harry said:

Trust the club all you want. 
I know that LJ & JMc thought highly of him and he was one they’d earmarked as ‘maybe’ having a little bit of first team squad exposure next season. 
 

I don’t care one way or the other about that though. What I’ve alluded to is ‘how’ this transfer has been conducted. 
This move was completed nearly 2 weeks ago. We didn’t want to announce it as we didn’t want to make it look like we’d sold a player without a manager having a final say. 
Funny that as soon as we put a manager in place that it’s now announced - 2 weeks after it was done and dusted. 
Tell me again who has ‘control’ over ins and outs?? 

Who are the u23 players that you think have a realistic change of first team action this season?

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4 minutes ago, Harry said:

Trust the club all you want. 
I know that LJ & JMc thought highly of him and he was one they’d earmarked as ‘maybe’ having a little bit of first team squad exposure next season. 
 

I don’t care one way or the other about that though. What I’ve alluded to is ‘how’ this transfer has been conducted. 
This move was completed nearly 2 weeks ago. We didn’t want to announce it as we didn’t want to make it look like we’d sold a player without a manager having a final say. 
Funny that as soon as we put a manager in place that it’s now announced - 2 weeks after it was done and dusted. 
Tell me again who has ‘control’ over ins and outs?? 

Wouldn't be surprised if Ashton at least asked Holden and/or Tinnion their opinion before doing the deal.

Also there's the contract situation. Did Holden want to move? And didn't he only have year left on his contract?

He's 23 in 2 weeks. I think it's fair to sell him. 

Ashton has control but he is the in charge of the budgets.

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11 minutes ago, Harry said:

Trust the club all you want. 
I know that LJ & JMc thought highly of him and he was one they’d earmarked as ‘maybe’ having a little bit of first team squad exposure next season. 
 

I don’t care one way or the other about that though. What I’ve alluded to is ‘how’ this transfer has been conducted. 
This move was completed nearly 2 weeks ago. We didn’t want to announce it as we didn’t want to make it look like we’d sold a player without a manager having a final say. 
Funny that as soon as we put a manager in place that it’s now announced - 2 weeks after it was done and dusted. 
Tell me again who has ‘control’ over ins and outs?? 

Does call into question whether the  recruitment  of the two coaches, the sacking of JM and not offering contract to Korey were Holden’s call as suggested yesterday?  The fact this was alluded to last week and the deal was done 2 weeks ago, certainly puts a big doubt that it was.
 

Don’t know about Rory Holden but there’s plenty of competition infront of him in fairness.

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1 hour ago, petehinton said:

The u23 player in question that Ashton made the decision to let go himself about a week ago

@TonyTonyTony this was him.

11 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Does call into question whether the  recruitment  of the two coaches, the sacking of JM and not offering contract to Korey were Holden’s call as suggested yesterday?  The fact this was alluded to last week and the deal was done 2 weeks ago, certainly puts a big doubt that it was.
 

Don’t know about Rory Holden but there’s plenty of competition infront of him in fairness.

Ashton was asked about outgoings last night.

He was clear (his definition and not necessarily truthful) that senior players or those that are in the minds of the 1st team are ultimately decided by the Head-Coach.

The younger players are in Brian Tinnion’s remit although all will be involved in the discussion.

Rory Holden is 23 week after next.  Harry will know more than me about him, but I would suggest that even if he was gonna be a bit more involved this season if someone has come in and offered us a fee for him in League 2 that it’s one we let go.  I’m sure we’ll have a sell-on.

@Kid in the Riot, @Harry any idea on rough fee.  Can DM me if need be.

@CyderInACan I so wanted to post that thread title last week!!

Edited by Davefevs
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1 hour ago, petehinton said:

The u23 player in question that Ashton made the decision to let go himself about a week ago

I thought Brian Tinnion is the main man for arranging loans?

Any chance for a dig at Ashton. I'm not  madly in love with him but how would you know that he "arranged" the current loan for Rory Holden.

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1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

I thought Brian Tinnion is the main man for arranging loans?

Any chance for a dig at Ashton. I'm not  madly in love with him but how would you know that he "arranged" the current loan for Rory Holden.

it's not a loan, he's been let go permanently. It was done about a week ago, funnily enough only announced the day after Holden is announced to tie into the 'head coach decision' narrative 

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Is this really that big a deal? I get the anti-MA movement going on at the moment but lettting a 23-year old leave who has never played at first team level really doesn't show that Ashton is the evil dictator behind the scenes. I'm sure DH & BT would have been asked for their views on this but given we can't fit KP, Pato, Szmodics etc into the same side at present how was this guy going to break through anyway?

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21 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think a few more will follow, such as a Jonny Smith who doesn’t look as though he will cut it at Championship level.  Good luck to them.

Wow, didnt realise hes 23 as well. 
presumably we will be looking at hinds and bakinson too, its not looking good they will ever be championship players.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Wouldn't be surprised if Ashton at least asked Holden and/or Tinnion their opinion before doing the deal.

Also there's the contract situation. Did Holden want to move? And didn't he only have year left on his contract?

He's 23 in 2 weeks. I think it's fair to sell him. 

Ashton has control but he is the in charge of the budgets.

The player was quite surprised. Plus the previous manager thought he was a future 1st team prospect. 

1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Does call into question whether the  recruitment  of the two coaches, the sacking of JM and not offering contract to Korey were Holden’s call as suggested yesterday?  The fact this was alluded to last week and the deal was done 2 weeks ago, certainly puts a big doubt that it was.
 

Don’t know about Rory Holden but there’s plenty of competition infront of him in fairness.

Exactly. 

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

I thought Brian Tinnion is the main man for arranging loans?

Any chance for a dig at Ashton. I'm not  madly in love with him but how would you know that he "arranged" the current loan for Rory Holden.

It’s not a loan. It’s a permanent transfer of a player the previous manager viewed as potential first team talent. 

1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Is this really that big a deal? I get the anti-MA movement going on at the moment but lettting a 23-year old leave who has never played at first team level really doesn't show that Ashton is the evil dictator behind the scenes. I'm sure DH & BT would have been asked for their views on this but given we can't fit KP, Pato, Szmodics etc into the same side at present how was this guy going to break through anyway?

I’m not using this as a ‘dig’ at Ashton. 
I’ve been fully aware of exactly the role he plays. 
I’m just using this to highlight to those who’ve always questioned the extent of his influence. 
He has total control over everything. Incomings and outgoings. 
 

I’m not having a dig as I’ve always known the situation and accept that it won’t change whilst he’s here. I just want others to be aware of exactly how the club operates under his command. 
As mentioned elsewhere, this is the reason for the lack of comms re Korey. You can hopefully all see now what I’d alluded to in previous posts on this. 
Ashton makes the final decisions on transfers, but the image they portray is that he doesn’t. Rory Holden was done 2 weeks ago when we had no manager, so was as Ashton call (as the previous manager wanted him to stay). He delayed the announcement to make it appear as though it was a decision taken by the new manager. Same as Korey, he wanted to keep the news back until the new man was in place so it was viewed as the new man’s decision. Same as the new assistants - Downing himself said yesterday he’d “heard good things about Dean” - clearly not Dean’s choice, Ashton put him in. 
 

As I say, not a dig. It’s the way it’s been for 4 years. People just need to know that this is how we operate. 

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16 minutes ago, Harry said:

The player was quite surprised. Plus the previous manager thought he was a future 1st team prospect. 

Exactly. 

It’s not a loan. It’s a permanent transfer of a player the previous manager viewed as potential first team talent. 

I’m not using this as a ‘dig’ at Ashton. 
I’ve been fully aware of exactly the role he plays. 
I’m just using this to highlight to those who’ve always questioned the extent of his influence. 
He has total control over everything. Incomings and outgoings. 
 

I’m not having a dig as I’ve always known the situation and accept that it won’t change whilst he’s here. I just want others to be aware of exactly how the club operates under his command. 
As mentioned elsewhere, this is the reason for the lack of comms re Korey. You can hopefully all see now what I’d alluded to in previous posts on this. 
Ashton makes the final decisions on transfers, but the image they portray is that he doesn’t. Rory Holden was done 2 weeks ago when we had no manager, so was as Ashton call (as the previous manager wanted him to stay). He delayed the announcement to make it appear as though it was a decision taken by the new manager. Same as Korey, he wanted to keep the news back until the new man was in place so it was viewed as the new man’s decision. Same as the new assistants - Downing himself said yesterday he’d “heard good things about Dean” - clearly not Dean’s choice, Ashton put him in. 
 

As I say, not a dig. It’s the way it’s been for 4 years. People just need to know that this is how we operate. 

As the CEO he is going to have a large element of control and making certain decisions, if he wasn't doing this then people would be saying whats he actually doing to justify his presumably large salary so he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Ultimately Steve Lansdown has employed him to carry out the role he is currently, I really don't think there is as much smoke and mirrors going on as some people seemeingly are desperate to believe (not aimed at you @Harry)

Since he's been here there has been a steady progression in terms of league placings whilst also generating a financial return that SL will have asked him to deliver so in terms of his performance levels to the Lansdown family he will be held in high regard. In addition to this there have been comments made by other chairmen in the Football League highlighting how professional we are to deal with so again it all points to the fact he is actually doing his job quite well.

In the case of Rory Holden as I said earlier I really don't think it is a significant departure, if the offer was made two weeks ago what was MA supposed to do just ignore it? The buying club and players agent wouldn't allow him to do that and nor would it have been fair to do so, I would imagine he negotiated the best deal he could with the caveat that it needed to be signed off by whomever the new coach was going to be, as it became clearer that DH was going to be the man I would have thought his consent or at least his lack of objection to the deal would have been sought. If any other manager had been appointed I would have thought their first reply would be "Rory who?" anyway.

The Korey Smith one is slightly different, it probably irks a bit more given his length of service and the high regard he is held in but again I can only assume that the club wanted the new man to decide whether a contract was going to be offered, as we had no manager at the point in time KS's deal was due to expire the club were in no position to offer him a contract at that time. If DH had confirmed he wanted to keep KS over the weekend then I'm sure an offer would have been made, same for whomever the new manager was going to be. Sad way for Korey to bow out but there have been some mitigating circumstances that haven't helped matters, I have no doubt that the club will be allowing him to use the training facilities etc whilst he fixes himself up with a new club if he so wishes.

WHat I don't like is the personal abuse that you see towards MA on OTIB and Social media, at the end of the day he is a bloke doing the job he has been employed to do and doesn't deserve the flak he gets in the exact same way as LJ didn't. By all means we can debate and criticise the guys decisions but the personal abuse is vulgar, yes he is a corporate-type but most in his position are and need to be. Whats the alternative?

 

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3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

People on here saying coaches thought he could play in our team this season and were surprised he is being sold. 

No chance surely! Walsall fans slagged him off much of his time there and he came good near the end of his loan. That's league two. Can't see him being a quality championship player now.

Incorrect. 
They seem pretty ecstatic on here :

 

 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Incorrect. 
They seem pretty ecstatic on here :

 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Incorrect. 
They seem pretty ecstatic on here :

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

It's not incorrect they slagged him off. I was regularly looking all season. I know they liked him in the final months though.

Yep can confirm, they hate him playing out wide on the left, and they liked him behind the striker in the 10 role.

He was a massive target of hate when he a run in the team at left wing, and at the end of his loan when he was switched back to what his position is he was good for them so they liked him.

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17 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Nice to get a fee for someone who I highly doubt would have cut it. Any rough idea on the number? I’d punt 100k?

The person who told me suggests it was a free transfer but likely to have a sell-on just in case.

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