Scapegoatting

[RedM]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I got what you meant Peg.

For me if Dean doesn’t last the season (I really hope he does), I don’t think MA will survive also.  I don’t care if SL made the running on this one, if it goes wrong, SL won’t be blaming himself or JL, he’ll be blaming MA.

On Forever Bristol Pod I was asked whether I thought MA had even more power now.  My answer was I think he has more risk.

Of course he’ll bask in Dean’s glory if it goes well (why shouldn’t he), but he won’t be able to smarm his way out if it goes wrong.

I wondered about this. The MA interview I saw on bbc tv today it seemed it was very much his decision to give the job to Holden, Steve told me to go out and get the best man type thing. Well a while back we had the infamous Lansdown quote of ‘Judge me on Tinnion’.  Of course I’m hoping Holden is a success, but is this Mark Ashton’s ‘judge me’ moment, or is he beyond any culpability? He shouldn’t be, he’s employed to do a job and if he fails the same fate as everybody else should await him.

[RedM]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

He [Ashton] hasn't actually said it but it would make sense if he did say "judge ME on Holden" much like SL said "judge me on Tinnion",  difference being BCFC is Lansdown's train set and Ashton is expendable!!

I’ve just read the rest of the thread after I replied above and saw I have made pretty much the same point as you! I wasn’t copying honest, great minds and all that!

[Bris Red]

My anger is at the father and son double act and the slimeball that is Mark Ashton. Holden has just taken an opportunity to probably double or even triple his weekly wage and manage a decent sized championship club. Lets be honest Dean would never of got this opportunity at another club at this level so fair play. It’s certainly not his fault just like it was never Tinnion’s or Millen’s faults when they were appointed.

[One Team]

10 minutes ago, bris red said:

My anger is at the father and son double act and the slimeball that is Mark Ashton. Holden has just taken an opportunity to probably double or even triple his weekly wage and manage a decent sized championship club. Lets be honest Dean would never of got this opportunity at another club at this level so fair play. It’s certainly not his fault just like it was never Tinnion’s or Millen’s faults when they were appointed.

Agreed.

Even if we do badly next season I think the fans have seen through the MA/JL/ SL bullshit sufficiently enough to give them the vitriol, not DH. 

[MarcusX]

5 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

Personally I don’t thinn that’s throwing him under the bus, I think it’s making it clear than DH is making his own choices as opposed to others making them for him - something a lot of people weren’t sure of

[TonyTonyTony]

16 minutes ago, bris red said:

My anger is at the father and son double act and the slimeball that is Mark Ashton. Holden has just taken an opportunity to probably double or even triple his weekly wage and manage a decent sized championship club. Lets be honest Dean would never of got this opportunity at another club at this level so fair play. It’s certainly not his fault just like it was never Tinnion’s or Millen’s faults when they were appointed.

More vitriol. Where does the anger really come from? Jesus people - so much hate

[Bat Fastard]

4 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

Have read the other comments, but from where I'm standing, your assessment of the situation seems to me pretty shrewd and on the money, Peg.

I have had experience of people like Ashton. In so far as it is possible to judge on what we see and hear of him, he is a narcissist. Narcissistic personalities are a nightmare to deal with and, whilst they can be highly competent and are often high achievers, they are dangerously flawed and almost invariably end up have a profoundly corrosive effect on the organisations in which they operate.

For one thing, they are never wrong about anything. If something bad happens, it simply must be someone else's fault. Take the credit for everything and the blame for nothing. They are devious, mendacious and manipulative. Above all, if my judgement about him is right (and I am of course willing to stand corrected if someone can demonstrate otherwise), you may take it as a given that MA's first priority is, and always will be, MA. Forget commitment to a cause, forget loyalty to colleagues. As long as his best interests align with that of the club, he will be an asset. But BCFC will be a stepping stone for him in the grand scheme of things. If you could see inside his head and read his ambitions, you may be sure that they don't end here. They will be far-reaching. He will see himself ending up as, say, CEO at an elite club, or perhaps in a very senior position within the game in this country - top dog in the EFL or even PL, maybe - or something of that sort. 

Narcissists are not squeamish about who they have to tread on to get where they want to be. They often leave a trail of collateral damage behind them as they pursue their chosen path. He will probably do many valuable things for the club - has, indeed, already done so - in the course of his own self-advancement, because it serves his own interests to be successful on our behalf, but I would be extremely wary of such a person. The personality of his most immediate senior colleague has been debated on another thread today, and I have been tempted to comment but thought it better not to do so. What I will say simply is that I think JL is quite a vulnerable person and that MA would have him for breakfast if it suited his agenda.

We therefore have, as has been spelt out on that other thread I mentioned, by a number of people whose judgment I would support, a massively dysfunctional and frankly fairly toxic combination of a hopelessly ineffectual Chairman, a powerful, wealthy, controlling owner, and a glib, slick and persuasive, but ultimately untrustworthy, CEO. If you take that on board, then what's taken place over the last five weeks becomes a lot easier to understand. It isn't the first time (though it may be the most spectacular so far), and it won't be the last time you see that kind of thing happen as long as the club is run in this way, by this triumvirate.

Are you sure you are not Mystic Meg?

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

spot on see watford to find out about that slimeball.a shithouse with no lid on the toilet seat

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

6 hours ago, Septic Peg said:

Firstly, I hold no anger or frustration towards DH. He is a man of integrity and strength. No parent should have to deal with the loss of a child and to be able to stand tall today and deal with some of the fall out from this situation at City, is frankly admirable. He will now be on a higher wage and I can't begrudge the man providing for his family.

 

Now, I've listened back to 20Man absolutely tearing MA a new asshole yesterday and remembered how quickly Ashton chucked Dean under the bus. When Geoff asked about Korey, one of the first things Ashton said was "Dean signed it off". When Geoff talked about Macca getting binned, Ashton said "it was Dean's decision."

 

If or when this goes belly up, he's going to chuck Dean under the bus again. He will no doubt repeat the corporate spiel of "the club's vision and Dean's vision differed" or "Dean couldn't produce the criteria required." This is upsetting for me. This poor guy is on a road to nowhere and he doesn't need nor deserve a kick in the gut and that's exactly what Mark Ashton will do.

 

I think the club thought Dean was going to get the majority of the negativity and whilst he will always get some shit from elements of the fanbase, yesterday the fans aimed the pelters at the one behind the guff. The one who appointed LJ, sacked LJ, knowingly caused uproar and dragged out an unprecedented "process". 

 

@Davefevs iirc said the board would make a statement when they made an appointment. I agree. It's not the statement of "we want the Prem tomorrow" but a statement of "Ashton, it's your call this time. On your head, be it." 

 

So this is my only hope. That Mark Ashton is front and centre if or when the shit hits the fan and the fanbase and the Lansdowns ignore his finger pointing, childish nonsense of "Dean did it, not me!" Because I promise you now dear reader, the slimeball will dry up eventually.

How very very condescending towards DH. Maybe he actually has set his sights beyond merely "providing for his family" maybe he actually is up for the job and has an absolute determination to take BCFC forward.

I don't get your post- it's just another MA bashing session which is getting pretty tedious  now -before a ball has been kicked. Sorry Peg- genuinely nothing personal but maybe just maybe Dean got the job cos he was the overall ,all factors considered, the best most suitable candidate in the current situation.

Sorry if this is contrary to the current OTIB narrative but I'm not one to bleet with the sheep.

[eardun]

3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Errr - maybe Dean made those decisions.....sometimes life is quite simple

Post is so full of MA vitriol and hatred it’s hard to take anything balanced from it. 

Before you shoot me down and say I love him - frankly I couldn’t care less. He is there to do a job. Is he a bit corporate - yes - but so what? 

 

7 hours ago, RedRoss said:

So on that basis.. he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

If he says I or the club made the decision fans would pick him apart for the decision not being left to Dean.

He said Dean made the decision and now he's deflecting any blame on such decisions.

I know MA isn't the most liked guy because of the corporate jargon and buzzwords he uses but I think he gets stick for anything at the moment.

Agree with the above extracts. Imagine if Holden had not chosen his assistants; then I would be concerned. 

[cidered abroad]

15 hours ago, Lrrr said:

So in a situation where we're saying they were Dean's decisions (as we can't know 100%)

Ashton tells the truth that it was Dean's decision but it doesn't matter because Ashton told us the truth about the head coach making decisions on a player he didn't want and a member of staff he didn't want to work with? 

There are things to say MA does wrong but if he's merely stating that Dean has jumped right in and made what are fairly big decisions that I'm glad as a fan to know that Dean is cracking on with it and making the decisions and therefore MA is telling us this.

The best way for Ashton to have answered would be to say "WE have made decisions about which personnel are leaving City and those who are coming to join us."

There has been too much direct criticism of individuals at Bristol City and it must stop now if we are ever to become a force in English football.

The "royal we" never hides the fact that one person has made an unpopular choice or mistake. 

It does, however, show the unity of the organisation. We win together, we lose together, we make mistakes together and above all, we stick together!

[LoyalRed]

10 hours ago, bris red said:

My anger is at the father and son double act and the slimeball that is Mark Ashton. Holden has just taken an opportunity to probably double or even triple his weekly wage and manage a decent sized championship club. Lets be honest Dean would never of got this opportunity at another club at this level so fair play. It’s certainly not his fault just like it was never Tinnion’s or Millen’s faults when they were appointed.

Tinnion resigned didn’t he ? 

[Bat Fastard]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

The best way for Ashton to have answered would be to say "WE have made decisions about which personnel are leaving City and those who are coming to join us."

There has been too much direct criticism of individuals at Bristol City and it must stop now if we are ever to become a force in English football.

The "royal we" never hides the fact that one person has made an unpopular choice or mistake. 

It does, however, show the unity of the organisation. We win together, we lose together, we make mistakes together and above all, we stick together!

Unfortunately the mob would never let a comment like that rest. It would morph into SL and MA or JL deciding who we bought and sold and then it would focus on one of them and there would be howls of outrage from the baying mob to get rid of one person - or another - or all.  This has already been suggested by various posters on various threads. I though that he was attempting to show that DH was in control of decisions concerning players. He also said that no signings would be made unless approved by the head coach.  The mob never let the facts or truth get in the way of their outrage.  

[Der no.2]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

The best way for Ashton to have answered would be to say "WE have made decisions about which personnel are leaving City and those who are coming to join us."

There has been too much direct criticism of individuals at Bristol City and it must stop now if we are ever to become a force in English football.

The "royal we" never hides the fact that one person has made an unpopular choice or mistake. 

It does, however, show the unity of the organisation. We win together, we lose together, we make mistakes together and above all, we stick together!

You make some good points.

I also noticed that he says a few times in the City website interview: “for this football club”, rather than OUR football club. He acts like a 3rd party consultant and does not come across as part of the team.

Uses the term “good human being” a few times, very strange language to use, especially more than once in under 3mins.