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What position in the league is acceptable this season


Redtrojan

What position is acceptable this season?  

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Quite surprised to see so many people being content with a lower position.

Why is this? Would you be content with lower positions if we’d appointed Hughton?

Ashton didn't say expectations have changed.. I’m wondering whether there’s something in the theory that we’ll tread water this year (given Holden’s contract length) before getting rid of him for not making playoffs and bringing in Howe after his break.

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As others have said, LJ’s remit was top 6. 
There has been nothing* from the owner or CEO to dispel that target, so that has to be Holden’s target too. 

*at least nothing in the form of words (not actions)!! 

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Quite surprised to see so many people being content with a lower position.

Why is this? Would you be content with lower positions if we’d appointed Hughton?

Ashton didn't say expectations have changed.. I’m wondering whether there’s something in the theory that we’ll tread water this year (given Holden’s contract length) before getting rid of him for not making playoffs and bringing in Howe after his break.

I am happy with lower finish as long as the football is attractive and 5-6 players under roughly 23 years of age play an average of 30 games.  

We aren’t going to buy our way out of the league so progress a young squad year on year. No loans either as they leave after a year.   if we had done that before then players like Moore could be coming into this season having played 50 games for us.

I’ve got no massive urge to see us go up though. More than happy to wait whilst watching good football.  Maybe that’s a minority viewpoint 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

As others have said, LJ’s remit was top 6. 
There has been nothing* from the owner or CEO to dispel that target, so that has to be Holden’s target too. 

*at least nothing in the form of words (not actions)!! 

That’s probably the target but will Holden be sacked if we finish around 10th?  I can’t see it 

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A promotion challenge, suggests 6th or better, but I think there’ll be a bit of leeway, if we are in with a chance all season.  But personally I think playoffs is the remit....and 6th or better he should be aiming for.

Although, probably wait until we see shale of squad on 12th Sept, or at end of window.  We’ll see if he’s had any backing or not.

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2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I am happy with lower finish as long as the football is attractive and 5-6 players under roughly 23 years of age play an average of 30 games.  

We aren’t going to buy our way out of the league so progress a young squad year on year. No loans either as they leave after a year.   if we had done that before then players like Moore could be coming into this season having played 50 games for us.

I’ve got no massive urge to see us go up though. More than happy to wait whilst watching good football.  Maybe that’s a minority viewpoint 

That’s a reasonable viewpoint and I’d agree if the board had told us expectations had changed.

They haven’t and LJ was sacked for not getting too 6. In my eyes, we should expect the same of Holden (regardless whether we really think it’s possible). I agree with you that mid table is certainly more likely - but I’m judging it by the metrics set out by the board. 

Personally I’d be reasonably content with your scenario above, but I’m judging it and being consistent with the parameters for success the board have set out.

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This is not Dean's team. Other managers would be given time to mould / blend / buy / sell and DH should be no different.

I'd settle for the same finish as this season as long as the football is more attractive.  If it's less attractive, god help us.

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6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

That’s probably the target but will Holden be sacked if we finish around 10th?  I can’t see it 

See below.....

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s a reasonable viewpoint and I’d agree if the board had told us expectations had changed.

They haven’t and LJ was sacked for not getting too 6. In my eyes, we should expect the same of Holden (regardless whether we really think it’s possible). I agree with you that mid table is certainly more likely - but I’m judging it by the metrics set out by the board. 

Personally I’d be reasonably content with your scenario above, but I’m judging it and being consistent with the parameters for success the board have set out.

Spot on. One guy left because he didn’t achieve playoffs and the stated aim of the owner is to take us to next level. So Holden’s target is no different to Lj’s 

I don’t necessarily agree and would be happy to see us play Morrell, Walsh, Moore regularly, give some time to Massengo. Semenyo, Vyner, O’Leary, maybe even gradually expose the likes of Pring and Pearson to the first team squad. 
 

Doing that and finishing 12th, and seeing a future with these kids, I’d be happy. 

But if the question is “what is acceptable” then the board haven’t changed their stated aim of playoffs. 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

See below.....

Spot on. One guy left because he didn’t achieve playoffs and the stated aim of the owner is to take us to next level. So Holden’s target is no different to Lj’s 

I don’t necessarily agree and would be happy to see us play Morrell, Walsh, Moore regularly, give some time to Massengo. Semenyo, Vyner, O’Leary, maybe even gradually expose the likes of Pring and Pearson to the first team squad. 
 

Doing that and finishing 12th, and seeing a future with these kids, I’d be happy. 

But if the question is “what is acceptable” then the board haven’t changed their stated aim of playoffs. 

Exactly - I think lots of people are answering the wrong question (answering what position do you think we will get).

As far as I’m concerned, there’s no change in expectations. It’s a huge ask and the board need to fund a couple of big additions. 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Exactly - I think lots of people are answering the wrong question (answering what position do you think we will get).

As far as I’m concerned, there’s no change in expectations. It’s a huge ask and the board need to fund a couple of big additions. 

Exactly Phileas. 
2 very different questions. 

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1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

The question was what is the expectation this season.  Don’t think that necessarily meant the boards expectation. I took it means each fans expectation. 

That’s true, however that indicates that board expectations don’t align with the fans’. 

Do you think it’s dishonest of the board to claim that expectations haven’t changed? 

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If we'd gone for Chris H then I would have said top 6 and with it being a weaker Championship without Villa, Leeds, WBA and Fulham maybe knocking on the door of top 2.

Now, not a fooking clue, but if I have to have a go, then 14th.

Hopefully a steady start, but if things go belly up I really don't think I could take a relegation scrap, especially with the SAGS putting together a good squad. It would be the nightmare of all nightmares, I'm not going to say it!

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6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s true, however that indicates that board expectations don’t align with the fans’. 

Do you think it’s dishonest of the board to claim that expectations haven’t changed? 

I guess time will tell. I don’t think the board want to say that expectations for this season have been lowered. Not good for the brand. Once this window is shut I think we will know a lot more and be able to second guess the boards aims better. If we lose 2-3 players and barely replace them then I would say expectations can only really be lessened, assuming other clubs do strengthen during a window affected by covid. 

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Surely it has to be top 6. Have we had a mass exodus of players I’m not aware of? LJ was playing players in the wrong formation or position etc etc. Now all of a sudden, the same players & more with the returning loan players ( who were better than some that played apparently! ), some are saying they would be happy to avoid the drop. I cannot see anything other than aiming for top 6. I hope we go into the season with that mindset at least. COYR 

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50 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Personally I’d be reasonably content with your scenario above, but I’m judging it and being consistent with the parameters for success the board have set out.

Mark Ashton’s not setting my threshold for happiness when leaving the Gate! I’ll settle for being happy according to my own criteria, not his.

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17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I guess time will tell. I don’t think the board want to say that expectations for this season have been lowered. Not good for the brand. Once this window is shut I think we will know a lot more and be able to second guess the boards aims better. If we lose 2-3 players and barely replace them then I would say expectations can only really be lessened, assuming other clubs do strengthen during a window affected by covid. 

My main issue is that they’ve made things much harder for Holden as a result. I think the majority of us know deep down that top 6 is a big ask, but as above I’m going to be sticking to the expectations the board had for Johnson.

Holden sounds like he backs himself so I hope he can pull it off. He does seem a really good guy so I’d love for him to succeed. 2-3 quality additions, some fresh eyes in the coaching team and some of the younger players (Moore, Walsh, Morrell) adding a different perspective and who knows.. 

3 minutes ago, Renaissance Williams said:

Mark Ashton’s not setting my threshold for happiness when leaving the Gate! I’ll settle for being happy according to my own criteria, not his.

Very well, no problem with that. Depends how rigidly your expectations align with the board.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

My main issue is that they’ve made things much harder for Holden as a result. I think the majority of us know deep down that top 6 is a big ask, but as above I’m going to be sticking to the expectations the board had for Johnson.

Holden sounds like he backs himself so I hope he can pull it off. He does seem a really good guy so I’d love for him to succeed. 2-3 quality additions, some fresh eyes in the coaching team and some of the younger players (Moore, Walsh, Morrell) adding a different perspective and who knows.. 

Very well, no problem with that. Depends how rigidly your expectations align with the board.

Not much of mine aligns with them just now - but I can see the sense of what they’ve done (if not how they’ve done it).

So I’ll be content to tread water rather than drowning in the season of post COVID-19.

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I just want us to see some semblance of an identity  and some decent attacking football. 

Be great to see players like Walsh and Moore given a real opportunity and not dropped on their first mistake.

If this means we need to take a bit of a backward in terms of where we finish (aside from relegation) then so be it. 

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2 hours ago, Redtrojan said:

Clearly we’ve been through a lengthy recruitment process for our new manager and the general consensus of opinion is that it appears a little underwhelming.

That may well turn out to be unfair and I wish Dean the best of luck and hope he is well supported by the owners.

In some ways having empty stadiums may be a blessing in disguise as I fear Dean would cop plenty of flack if we don’t start well ,which again could be premature,remember how close Ferguson came to the sack at old Trafford ,prior to his long run of successes.

That said ,what is a reasonable expectation for this season??

I’m going to suggest flirting with the play offs but finishing in the top half of the table would be ok .....as long as it looks like we have a pattern of play and can build on that.

 

Has to be 6th at least,  before we sell off our next round of talented players and replace them with?

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If Holden goes for 3 at the back which is his preferred option, we can afford to lose Eliasson and if we can get 3m+ for him that would be a very good deal. 

If Fam goes then thats another 5m or so in the pot.

Should be enough to get a decent striker on board in this financial climate - I suppose our option on Afobe has expired ?

A couple of decent quality loans like Benkovic and we'd be ok.

Top 10 finish should be achievable.

 

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