What position in the league is acceptable this season

[Chappers]

I thought that part of the problem last season was the pressure to improve, led to a few panic buys and a reluctance to use the younger players. Who knows with this season, I think the League will be a bit of a mess as sides struggle to survive. A settled squad and continuity may well work in our favour

[tin]

History tells us not to expect too much with a novice in charge. Millen got nowhere, Tinnion managed seventh place in the league below before the wheels came off the following season.

I genuinely think we will do extremely well to finish in the top half. In normal years at this level with a rookie of no pedigree as a player or manager (not his fault he’s in the role, btw) and all clubs starting on an even keel points-wise, I think we’d be relegation fodder. 

I also wouldn’t be at all surprised to see us in the bottom six fighting for survival, especially with Diedhiou going. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, tin said:

History tells us not to expect too much with a novice in charge. Millen got nowhere, Tinnion managed seventh place in the league below before the wheels came off the following season.

I genuinely think we will do extremely well to finish in the top half. In normal years at this level with a rookie of no pedigree as a player or manager (not his fault he’s in the role, btw) and all clubs starting on an even keel points-wise, I think we’d be relegation fodder. 

I also wouldn’t be at all surprised to see us in the bottom six fighting for survival, especially with Diedhiou going. 

 

Would that be acceptable to you though? Is it right to make allowances for Holden because of his relative inexperience as a manager?

[Monkeh]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Would that be acceptable to you though? Is it right to make allowances for Holden because of his relative inexperience as a manager?

The only acceptable way to me in a lower finish is if the football is exciting and we are playing like brentford, as that would give us hope and something to build on

[tin]

10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Would that be acceptable to you though? Is it right to make allowances for Holden because of his relative inexperience as a manager?

To me, it would be absolutely unacceptable as I saw this season as a real opportunity to have appointed a proven manager and make a genuine bid for a return to the top-flight. But I’m not SL or Trashton and think that’s no longer possible because of their decision. 

[Spud55]

15 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The only acceptable way to me in a lower finish is if the football is exciting and we are playing like brentford, as that would give us hope and something to build on

To me a lower finish is absolutely not acceptable in any way shape or form. I can accept finishing 12th if there is a massive improvement from LJ and Holdens performance in the last 5 games and we are showing signs of being a hairs breath away from being great. 

Other than that the expectations have to stay the same, I don't think Covid impacts the top half of the championship as much as people are thinking, let's face it if any of the teams in the top half are losing players it's largely to the Prem, and they are not affected by Covid much at all, so if Brentford want it they will still get 50+ million for their best players, so i don't see there being a sudden crash in the quality of sides at the top, Brum are not ******* about appointing Karanka, so they will be expecting to push on and be in and around the top 6, and have money from Bellingham. 

I think we may be massively caught out by thinking that treading water or regressing slightly is the sensible option. 

[MATT BCFC]

13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The only acceptable way to me in a lower finish is if the football is exciting and we are playing like brentford, as that would give us hope and something to build on

Yeah I think even if we finish similar position but we are playing good football and clearly moving in the right direction then I think most fans would accept this. 

The big problem towards the end with LJ was the results weren't amazing and we were dire to watch. Even when we won we weren't convicincing and got lucky a lot I thought. 

[Numero Uno]

11 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

The only acceptable way to me in a lower finish is if the football is exciting and we are playing like brentford, as that would give us hope and something to build on

To be honest that is exactly where my expectation now lies this season.............not necessarily to mimic Brentford, as that takes time and a lot of hard work, but to see some attacking football on a regular basis, particularly home games, and to make sure we do not get dragged into a relegation battle.

For people who say I should have higher expectations, well, I did have higher expectations a month or two back but they have been significantly lowered by the actions of the circus upstairs that I have no control over.

[LondonBristolian]

Sixth or above. That was the stated expectation and, whilst I didn't want Holden to get the job, I hope the club have appointed someone they believe can do that and will not make excuses.

That said, I'd not be heartbroken by a season where we finished in the top ten and brought a number of young players through. Lower than tenth though, and I don't think we have delivered on expectations.

I also don't think COVID is an excuse for poor performances. Of course we've less money to spend but so has everyone else - there is no excuse for us regressing any more than any other Championship club. 

[Red-Robbo]

I'll be thrilled if we finish 12th because I honestly expect lower. 

The owner should be setting a target of season-on-season improvement. 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

I'm a City fan and have learned through bitter experience not to be overly optimistic when the club start to look toward the heavens....it's usually a quick look to see when the next shower is coming down.  I can't see City worrying the Top 6 and I'll be happy if we give the drop zone a wide berth. Mid table mediocrity, which after the shower of crap we've had from the club over the last few weeks, will be as welcome as a thunderstorm right about now

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

I'll be thrilled if we finish 12th because I honestly expect lower. 

The owner should be setting a target of season-on-season improvement. 

12th, possibly a bit lower, if the football is decent and you can see a young side making progress, agreed, but if we have to go through a repeat of what was masquerading as "football" for the majority of last season then, at the very least, I will be seriously considering a cheaper season ticket moving forwards. I cannot agree with people who think the result is everything, there has to be entertainment too otherwise you may as well buy a newspaper on a Sunday, look at the result, cheer if they win, boo if they lose....................and save yourself about £400 in the process. 

[FNQ]

In our last three games we couldn’t beat Stoke or Preston at home and lost to Swansea away... with a squad now likely to be minus Fam, Benik, Smith, Eliasson and a head coach now loaded with the burden of total responsibility how can we possibly be optimistic...  

[Numero Uno]

Just now, FNQ said:

In our last three games we couldn’t beat Stoke or Preston at home and lost to Swansea away... with a squad now likely to be minus Fam, Benik, Smith, Eliasson and a head coach now loaded with the burden of total responsibility how can we possibly be optimistic...  

Our home form over the last two seasons is shite, full stop, and needs a significant shift in playing direction to change that which Holden alluded to in his interview. We have to assume that the Board will back Dean to some extent..............they simply have to. If he can use that backing well then we ought to have enough to avoid looking behind us next season.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

12th, possibly a bit lower, if the football is decent and you can see a young side making progress, agreed, but if we have to go through a repeat of what was masquerading as "football" for the majority of last season then, at the very least, I will be seriously considering a cheaper season ticket moving forwards. I cannot agree with people who think the result is everything, there has to be entertainment too otherwise you may as well buy a newspaper on a Sunday, look at the result, cheer if they win, boo if they lose....................and save yourself about £400 in the process. 

There were entertaining matches under Lee, though granted not many in his final run of 10. 

One of the problems was we couldn't seem to break down teams that were overly defensive. 

When I played, I used to love coming up against sides that were happy with a draw. They invite pressure on to themselves and you can pile forward. City however seem to lack the ability to play through sides. If Holden can improve our slowwwww build-up play, then I might be a bit reconciled towards him.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

There were entertaining matches under Lee, though granted not many in his final run of 10. 

One of the problems was we couldn't seem to break down teams that were overly defensive. 

When I played, I used to love coming up against sides that were happy with a draw. They invite pressure on to themselves and you can pile forward. City however seem to lack the ability to play through sides. If Holden can improve our slowwwww build-up play, then I might be a bit reconciled towards him.

Holden did talk about attacking football in his interview but you have hit the nail on the head, it is attacking football at speed and players who can beat a man in a 1 v 1 that break down packed defensive set ups. You simply cannot patiently pass your way through it.............certainly not players of Championship quality anyway.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, FNQ said:

In our last three games we couldn’t beat Stoke or Preston at home and lost to Swansea away... with a squad now likely to be minus Fam, Benik, Smith, Eliasson and a head coach now loaded with the burden of total responsibility how can we possibly be optimistic...  

think most people on here need to wait to see 1) if Fam and Eliasson leave and if they do 2) how are they replaced (if at all).

I still think context of Holden’s 5 games need to be take into account.

• we’d not won in 9
• seemingly were in the beach
• playing 3 sides scrapping for survival, one of which was Warnovk
• playing 2 sides scrapping for promotion

yet we eked out 8 points from 5 games (2 points from previous 9 games).  Isn’t was brilliant, but encouraging.

I expect Holden to be backed to some extent.  He won’t get £24m to spend like Johnson did last season, but I don’t think the board will hamstring him completely.

Board expectation: promotion challenge

My expectation (based on the fact I think he will get some backing): promotion challenge 

But I reserve the right to change this up to and including the end of the window.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

think most people on here need to wait to see 1) if Fam and Eliasson leave and if they do 2) how are they replaced (if at all).

I still think context of Holden’s 5 games need to be take into account.

• we’d not won in 9
• seemingly were in the beach
• playing 3 sides scrapping for survival, one of which was Warnovk
• playing 2 sides scrapping for promotion

yet we eked out 8 points from 5 games (2 points from previous 9 games).  Isn’t was brilliant, but encouraging.

I expect Holden to be backed to some extent.  He won’t get £24m to spend like Johnson did last season, but I don’t think the board will hamstring him completely.

Board expectation: promotion challenge

My expectation (based on the fact I think he will get some backing): promotion challenge 

But I reserve the right to change this up to and including the end of the window.

 

I have a horrible feeling the Post's phrase "don't expect much transfer activity" will be true and apart from outgoings we'll only see the odd "one for the future" type of speculative incomings. 

The cheap option vis a manager will be matched with the cheap option vis the squad.

Obviously, I hope I'm wrong.

[IAmNick]

We've been told Holden is the best (sorry, "right") man for the job. With a few of the other names I'd be expecting top six as would the club, so I don't see why if he really is the right man why that should change.

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think context of Holden’s 5 games need to be take into account.

• we’d not won in 9
• seemingly were in the beach
• playing 3 sides scrapping for survival, one of which was Warnovk
• playing 2 sides scrapping for promotion

yet we eked out 8 points from 5 games (2 points from previous 9 games).  Isn’t was brilliant, but encouraging.

For me you also need to include the context of a long running (and perhaps divisive) manager leaving as well then - and the team then looking relaxed and getting couple of wins. That's definitely not unusual in that situation for me, and I felt we quite quickly then put in a couple of poor performances at the end.

Was it down to Holden, or simply "not the bloke I've been listening to for the last three years and has been increasingly annoying me" (or whatever)? I'm not so sure, but we'll see!

[City oz]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

think most people on here need to wait to see 1) if Fam and Eliasson leave and if they do 2) how are they replaced (if at all).

I still think context of Holden’s 5 games need to be take into account.

• we’d not won in 9
• seemingly were in the beach
• playing 3 sides scrapping for survival, one of which was Warnovk
• playing 2 sides scrapping for promotion

yet we eked out 8 points from 5 games (2 points from previous 9 games).  Isn’t was brilliant, but encouraging.

I expect Holden to be backed to some extent.  He won’t get £24m to spend like Johnson did last season, but I don’t think the board will hamstring him completely.

Board expectation: promotion challenge

My expectation (based on the fact I think he will get some backing): promotion challenge 

But I reserve the right to change this up to and including the end of the window.

Dave, we all would be looking for at least a play off spot after all the s%$t and all the negativity which i think is quite justified i might add around the board of directors inability to communicate to the greater community in the past five weeks.

if DH can get us in a play off spot next season and even if we do not go up he will have the support all round. The season after that the expectations will be an automatic spot to the Prem. Because if that does not happen in two seasons time we are back to square one. There then will be no Plan B.

[RedM]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Would that be acceptable to you though? Is it right to make allowances for Holden because of his relative inexperience as a manager?

Not for me no. The Board have chosen to put an inexperienced man in charge but the expectation by me as a paying customer* shouldn’t be affected. 

* I don’t think of myself of a ‘paying customer’, I am a fan,  but if I am going to be treated as a consumer by the club then I am not wanting a downward shift in expectation or product. The club has to deliver. 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

Not for me no. The Board have chosen to put an inexperienced man in charge but the expectation by me as a paying customer* shouldn’t be affected. 

* I don’t think of myself of a ‘paying customer’, I am a fan,  but if I am going to be treated as a consumer by the club then I am not wanting a downward shift in expectation or product. The club has to deliver. 

Be prepared to be disappointed is all I would answer to that....which is the reason I have lowered my expectations to very reasonable levels and will be judging Holden purely on the two criteria of quality of football and not being dragged into a relegation scrap. Low expectations? I couldn't agree more and the reasons are simply that I do not see the benefit of chucking gratuitous criticism Dean's way based on league position or results when I know where the real issues at the club lie and, just as importantly, it will improve my blood pressure on a Saturday afternoon!!

If he were suddenly allowed to bring in two or three marquee signings then that might be a different matter.......................

[supercidered]

13 hours ago, BetterRedthenBlue said:

What is acceptable? 6th

LJ got sacked for not getting us into the play offs why should Holden have an easier ride? 

LJ got sacked for not getting in the play offs for 4 seasons in a row. In addition the football being played was mind numbing at times.

[supercidered]

1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

To me a lower finish is absolutely not acceptable in any way shape or form. I can accept finishing 12th if there is a massive improvement from LJ and Holdens performance in the last 5 games and we are showing signs of being a hairs breath away from being great. 

Other than that the expectations have to stay the same, I don't think Covid impacts the top half of the championship as much as people are thinking, let's face it if any of the teams in the top half are losing players it's largely to the Prem, and they are not affected by Covid much at all, so if Brentford want it they will still get 50+ million for their best players, so i don't see there being a sudden crash in the quality of sides at the top, Brum are not ******* about appointing Karanka, so they will be expecting to push on and be in and around the top 6, and have money from Bellingham. 

I think we may be massively caught out by thinking that treading water or regressing slightly is the sensible option. 

Last 5 games a hairs breath away from being great?

l’m not having a dig here but I must have been watching different games to you. 
It was better better than previously But that’s hardly setting the bar particularly high.

 

[phantom]

13 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This would be better as a poll by the way, @phantom any chance of adding one? 

Sorry only just saw this, I've added the poll now @Phileas Fogg

[supercidered]

1 minute ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

We have a good enough squad to go up. 

Champs is poor this year and some early season form will see anyone as a contender. 

 

I'm confused a lil bit as so many appear to have written off Holden already, but have lauded other first timers elsewhere. The double standards are quite frankly odd. 

 

What we actually do will be on the pitch and anywhere from 1st to 16th is a possibility. 

1st !!!

I’m actually laughing out loud!

 

[Spud55]

12 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Last 5 games a hairs breath away from being great?

l’m not having a dig here but I must have been watching different games to you. 
It was better better than previously But that’s hardly setting the bar particularly high.

 

No I said if we have a massive improvement from LJ and Holden last 5 games, implying that I thought we were largely shite under Holden. 

[Clutton Caveman]

Surely this was the key piece of information we needed when Dean was given the job

Oh of course that would mean transparency wouldn't it? and we are not intelligent enough to understand such matters

[Numero Uno]

Just now, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Why? 

Do you not believe in the possible, or are you happier ensconced in drudgery and misery. 

No balls been kicked, we're just as good as everyone else, and im not navel gazing with those who are showing reactionary depression. 

 

The squad, as it currently stands, is not one that can achieve 1st place. That's not based on reactionary depression just realism based on attending matches over the last couple of seasons. The Board need to back the Manager if we are to get near the top 6 this season.

[RAD_Red]

Considering that it will likely be quite a weak league next season (with Covid spending restrictions, and just generally looking at the teams in the league) - I think anything lower than a 6th place finish will be disappointing.

Especially as it would indicate a lack of progression from the last few seasons, and most fans agree that Hughton would have probably got us in the top six.