Shtanley Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Hey y'all. Episode #107 of OSIB is out. Exiled Robin, Gregor MacGregor and Dave join me to discuss the holden appointment amongst other things. As always keen to hear feedback about what you liked, didn't like, agreed and disagreed with! LISTEN AND FOLLOW HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 I’m staggered that a couple of the people on the podcast think that LJ will still get a good job soon. It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. He has to be the luckiest manager going, to have got a job at a decent Championship club ( us) after having no record whatsoever to justify getting the job in the first place. Then, being allowed to sign player after player like a kid in a sweetshop. Transfer windows were like bloody swap shop, he didn’t have a clue where players would fit in, but signed them regardless. His lack of man management won’t have gone unnoticed at other clubs, nor his streaky consistent losing runs. Let’s face it, at any other club he would have been sacked 2 years ago, but SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: his streaky consistent losing runs Not trying to take away from your opinion, but comment on this aspect of LJs tenure has continued to puzzle me. Ordinarily, given a different owner one of these could cost any manager his job. Granted. But aside from that isn't it the overall position a clubs finishes that most important and whether losses come in streaks or are spread out over the season, what difference does it make? To offset these losing streaks, there are generally has to be a winning streak doesn't there? We could lose 7 games in a row next season, and still get promoted. A run can be explained by the fixtures being kind/unkind or absences through injury or suspension. A few defeats and confidence will become an issue for players, so maybe it's more a reflection of the resilience of the squad? It could be transitioning to a new system that will ultimately improve results, but may take time to bed in. A number of things. This isn't a comment about LJ per se. I'm just really perplexed as to why 'streakiness' is a thing for some people. Will give the pod a listen. Always enjoyable. Probably during another sleepless night!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Is Gregor the right man to rate bedsheets? I had no idea his haberdashery skills qualify him for that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Thanks for bringing some sanity to Bristol City discussions. Agreed with alot of what was said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted August 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 50 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. I don't think he'll get a job as soon as the others do, probably a lower championship team at some point. That line from your post is a load of bollocks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, Red Skin said: Not trying to take away from your opinion, but comment on this aspect of LJs tenure has continued to puzzle me. Ordinarily, given a different owner one of these could cost any manager his job. Granted. But aside from that isn't it the overall position a clubs finishes that most important and whether losses come in streaks or are spread out over the season, what difference does it make? To offset these losing streaks, there are generally has to be a winning streak doesn't there? We could lose 7 games in a row next season, and still get promoted. A run can be explained by the fixtures being kind/unkind or absences through injury or suspension. A few defeats and confidence will become an issue for players, so maybe it's more a reflection of the resilience of the squad? It could be transitioning to a new system that will ultimately improve results, but may take time to bed in. A number of things. This isn't a comment about LJ per se. I'm just really perplexed as to why 'streakiness' is a thing for some people. Will give the pod a listen. Always enjoyable. Probably during another sleepless night!! Any decent manager doesn’t continuously go on these bad runs though. Yes I accept that we also went on good runs. The only consistent was the inconsistent when you look at it. The problem he has is that if he lost one game he felt he had to change everything, you don’t, you back what you are doing and if it’s the right way it will come good. Once you mess about constantly with different players, different formations, different tactics you basically admit you don’t know what your doing. Add in the way the dropped players feel, and you start to lose some of these players. Its no coincidence that the best football and best consistent run of results he had, was when he was forced into playing a settled side because of injuries and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUTOR Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Disappointingly cool headed and sensible. Wanted a ******* slag fest. Rob would have been good on this episode Nevertheless, enjoyable as ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Superb listen as ever. Light relief after reading this forum, listening to fans on 20man and listening to other angrier pods recently. Never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Portland Bill said: Any decent manager doesn’t continuously go on these bad runs though. Yes I accept that we also went on good runs. The only consistent was the inconsistent when you look at it. The problem he has is that if he lost one game he felt he had to change everything, you don’t, you back what you are doing and if it’s the right way it will come good. Once you mess about constantly with different players, different formations, different tactics you basically admit you don’t know what your doing. Add in the way the dropped players feel, and you start to lose some of these players. Its no coincidence that the best football and best consistent run of results he had, was when he was forced into playing a settled side because of injuries and the like. Ok, I agree LJ did not stick to a system and players who were seemingly doing well we're dropped for no reason or suddenly appeared again for no obvious reason. All valid criticism. I'm kind of with SO'D in that the looking solely at the results does not tell the full story so how well you are performing. (Maybe xG helps?). I guess if 'streakiness' could be a symptom of something more underlying - though it there could be many factors at work - but makes more sense to me to look at those root causes than focus on the 'streakiness'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: I’m staggered that a couple of the people on the podcast think that LJ will still get a good job soon. It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. He has to be the luckiest manager going, to have got a job at a decent Championship club ( us) after having no record whatsoever to justify getting the job in the first place. Then, being allowed to sign player after player like a kid in a sweetshop. Transfer windows were like bloody swap shop, he didn’t have a clue where players would fit in, but signed them regardless. His lack of man management won’t have gone unnoticed at other clubs, nor his streaky consistent losing runs. Let’s face it, at any other club he would have been sacked 2 years ago, but SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. Interesting how people see things different, You really think a manger who led two teams to near-play off finishes in consecutive seasons and a league cup semi final won’t get a job in the same league he left his last job in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 I haven’t listened much for a while, but your podcasts have improved so much. They’re genuinely a very good product now so well done to all of you. Good discussion from some knowledgeable supporters and an entertaining listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: I’m staggered that a couple of the people on the podcast think that LJ will still get a good job soon. It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. He has to be the luckiest manager going, to have got a job at a decent Championship club ( us) after having no record whatsoever to justify getting the job in the first place. Then, being allowed to sign player after player like a kid in a sweetshop. Transfer windows were like bloody swap shop, he didn’t have a clue where players would fit in, but signed them regardless. His lack of man management won’t have gone unnoticed at other clubs, nor his streaky consistent losing runs. Let’s face it, at any other club he would have been sacked 2 years ago, but SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. Yup agreed - even if he was to land another championship job i just don’t see how he would cope. Number 1 there is not a chance in hell he will get backed at a mid to small championship outfit (as that’s the only ones that will come in for him Imo) like he did here - not a chance. And number 2 he will almost certainly go on another horrendous run at his next club which will mean certain dismissal. I just can’t see LJ having anything other than a nosedive in his career now, i think BCFC will have been the pinnacle for him. He’s a very lucky boy to have even gotten the opportunity here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralRobin Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: I’m staggered that a couple of the people on the podcast think that LJ will still get a good job soon. It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. He has to be the luckiest manager going, to have got a job at a decent Championship club ( us) after having no record whatsoever to justify getting the job in the first place. Then, being allowed to sign player after player like a kid in a sweetshop. Transfer windows were like bloody swap shop, he didn’t have a clue where players would fit in, but signed them regardless. His lack of man management won’t have gone unnoticed at other clubs, nor his streaky consistent losing runs. Let’s face it, at any other club he would have been sacked 2 years ago, but SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. Agree with much of what you say here, especially around man management, but not sure it's fair to say he has had money 'thrown' at him for signings. Have we not just spent a decent portion of the money we've brought in through player sales over the last few years? With our net transfer spend actually being negative over LJ's period in charge? Not sure how accurate this site is so would love to hear from anyone with more definitive data but https://www.transferleague.co.uk/championship-teams-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/championship-last-five-season (below) suggests we have raised much more money through transfer sales in the past 5 years than we have spent. If this is true, surely other clubs will see his ability to get us year on year league position progression (up until this year) whilst spending less than he's bringing in in the transfer market as impressive? I'm sure he's the sort of guy that interviews really well too, with his indepth buzzword filled presentations etc so I can see him ending up at a decent job no doubt. (FWIW I agree the return we've had on many of the signings he's spent big on has been mixed at best but he has examples like Brownhill and from a loan respect Tammy who he will use to really sell himself to other clubs regarding his transfer success) P.S Top listen as always Stan, keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchred Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Was looking forward to this until you mentioned the failed journalist was on there. The bloke is a fraud (Kory smith story amongst many others) why people give him the time of day or a platform to bullshit is beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Will give it a listen. @Shtanley any news of the next cider with podcast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. What you fail to consider is that LJ didnt actually spend any of the clubs money - he was using money generated by player sales. He had a negative net spend. And he was always replacing players. Need to tell the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 I liked it, good podcast. I think you’re further along the positivity spectrum than I am, but it’s great to listen to different opinions and views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packman Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Portland Bill said: I’m staggered that a couple of the people on the podcast think that LJ will still get a good job soon. It was mentioned that clubs without parachute payments would be keen on him, simply because he did the City job without parachute payments. What was failed to say, is that he has had an owner who has thrown money and signings at him, he won’t get that anywhere else. He has to be the luckiest manager going, to have got a job at a decent Championship club ( us) after having no record whatsoever to justify getting the job in the first place. Then, being allowed to sign player after player like a kid in a sweetshop. Transfer windows were like bloody swap shop, he didn’t have a clue where players would fit in, but signed them regardless. His lack of man management won’t have gone unnoticed at other clubs, nor his streaky consistent losing runs. Let’s face it, at any other club he would have been sacked 2 years ago, but SL was more concerned about getting one up on us fans, rather than what was best for our football team. I'm not saying LJ will get another champ job but surely you can see that he hasn't had money thrown at him. He's sold players for £25m, £13m, £10mx2, £6m etc. He's earned the right to spend in transfer windows. Pretty sure like someone else said above he's generated more than he's spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 44 minutes ago, petehinton said: Interesting how people see things different, You really think a manger who led two teams to near-play off finishes in consecutive seasons and a league cup semi final won’t get a job in the same league he left his last job in? It’s gonna be interesting. Is the real informed football world still seeing him as “17/18 cup run LJ” that played bright, passing football....or the one our fans have seen over the past 18 months. The past 18 months have had good points, but the football is nothing like it was 2 seasons ago. If Danny Mills is on the interview panel, he’ll be fine!! I suspect he will get a job in the Chsmpionship, but I don’t think it’ll be a top 6 / Prem relegated team. 33 minutes ago, bris red said: Yup agreed - even if he was to land another championship job i just don’t see how he would cope. Number 1 there is not a chance in hell he will get backed at a mid to small championship outfit (as that’s the only ones that will come in for him Imo) like he did here - not a chance. And number 2 he will almost certainly go on another horrendous run at his next club which will mean certain dismissal. I just can’t see LJ having anything other than a nosedive in his career now, i think BCFC will have been the pinnacle for him. He’s a very lucky boy to have even gotten the opportunity here. I do believe he towed the line with the MA / Board structure....and on the flip side he was allowed to have lots of players. It probably won’t be like that elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Red Skin said: Not trying to take away from your opinion, but comment on this aspect of LJs tenure has continued to puzzle me. Ordinarily, given a different owner one of these could cost any manager his job. Granted. But aside from that isn't it the overall position a clubs finishes that most important and whether losses come in streaks or are spread out over the season, what difference does it make? To offset these losing streaks, there are generally has to be a winning streak doesn't there? We could lose 7 games in a row next season, and still get promoted. To be successful a club will almost certainly have to eradicate those significant losses of form. Teams thus will demonstrate consistent behaviours to in Lee Johnson speak flatten the waves. Mr Johnsons football was in constant cycles of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Packman said: I'm not saying LJ will get another champ job but surely you can see that he hasn't had money thrown at him. He's sold players for £25m, £13m, £10mx2, £6m etc. He's earned the right to spend in transfer windows. Pretty sure like someone else said above he's generated more than he's spent. You have to look beyond old-fashioned net spend. There are signing on fees, loan fees, agent fees, wages....not to forget sell-on fees back to Swindon (Flint), Cheltenham (Pack), Preston (Brownhill), Ipswich (Webster) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, frenchred said: Was looking forward to this until you mentioned the failed journalist was on there. The bloke is a fraud (Kory smith story amongst many others) why people give him the time of day or a platform to bullshit is beyond me! He said Holden was a viable candidate when no one else did (or in truth could even believe it was a possibility). He said Hughton wasn’t a done deal when it was being reported elsewhere that it was. He said Jamie Mac had been sacked and was then called a bullshitter by several on here. He was certainly wrong about Korey but that hardly makes him a fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 11 minutes ago, Packman said: I'm not saying LJ will get another champ job but surely you can see that he hasn't had money thrown at him. He's sold players for £25m, £13m, £10mx2, £6m etc. He's earned the right to spend in transfer windows. Pretty sure like someone else said above he's generated more than he's spent. That’s fine if he left a solid platform on which to build, with just a bit of fine tuning needed. He didn’t, he left a complete mess of a squad. No chemistry, no identity, no shape and no midfield. All that for £70 million. Bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, RedRock said: That’s fine if he left a solid platform on which to build, with just a bit of fine tuning needed. He didn’t, he left a complete mess of a squad. No chemistry, no identity, no shape and no midfield. All that for £70 million. Bargain. He talks the talk though. I'm sure we've both been in jobs where people who learned the script but weren't much cop at the actual role, got appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packman Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, RedRock said: That’s fine if he left a solid platform on which to build, with just a bit of fine tuning needed. He didn’t, he left a complete mess of a squad. No chemistry, no identity, no shape and no midfield. All that for £70 million. Bargain. Think we've got quite a good squad with some exciting young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, petehinton said: Interesting how people see things different, You really think a manger who led two teams to near-play off finishes in consecutive seasons and a league cup semi final won’t get a job in the same league he left his last job in? I think his media savvy, length of service and apparent likeability is blinding people to what he actually delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packman Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, Davefevs said: You have to look beyond old-fashioned net spend. There are signing on fees, loan fees, agent fees, wages....not to forget sell-on fees back to Swindon (Flint), Cheltenham (Pack), Preston (Brownhill), Ipswich (Webster) etc. Thanks for that, but it's still not as easy as just saying he's had money thrown at him every window, obviously with ffp this isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Great listen, agree what has been said about Ashton from a footballing perspective he’s done a good job. But like you said communications need to be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Simon bristol said: I think his media savvy, length of service and apparent likeability is blinding people to what he actually delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.