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Right, I’m going to be wildly optimistic


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3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Suppose this isn’t city and you’ve not just seen the debacle of the last five weeks and I came to you with the following team in a 3-5-2 formation:

GK: A player with significant experience at this level, good distribution. Can lose confidence but was considered POTY at a playoff chasing side for the first half of the season. Backed up by an academy prospect who’s performed excellently at the level below.

RB: Good going forward and tenacious, but probably not top 10 quality. Comfortable championship player. Backup unproven but has good experience at the level below.

LB: England U21 international. POTY in league 1 at age 19, comfortable at this level and likely top six player. Backed up by experienced head

CB x3: 1 x £8m player with experience of 3 promotions from this level, 1 x highly rated ballplaying CB who has captained England at youth levels. 1 x no nonsense defender with 70+ prem games and good championship experience. More than adept at this level. Questions over depth.

CM x 3: Perm from:

- Current first choice Wales CM, POTY at L1 club last year

- Current first choice Hungary midfielder. Regarded as countries best player and now fully fit after season of adapting

- Highly rated 18 year old CM who played in CL at 17

- POTY in league one nicknamed Messi by teammates last year

- Mercurial ball player who has lost way recently but been promoted from this level. Only 23 still and with bags of talent

- Cultured, slightly lightweight player who scored multiple goals of high quality in the restart

- ROI international - more rated at that level than league

Backed up by player who had good L1 loan spell but lacks experience at this level and promising youngster who had good L2 loan spell

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level. Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position. Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1 and experienced workhorse.

If I looked at that, and it wasn’t us, I’d see a side where you can quite easily argue top 6 - it’s got an experienced and decent quality GK, a good back line (god knows what happened last year), some real potential and ball players in CM and a top quality striker. That’s with the expected two departures.

So, if we get in some players in what look to be the areas we look to be short (CF, RB, CB cover) - is there any reason we shouldn’t be optimistic??

Optimism!, on here? 😉 

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Good to see some positivity on here! To be fair to DH, I did feel that the players played with more freedom and positivity with him as caretaker. Players like Wells and Kalas looked more like their their old selves. Paterson was a revelation in his new role (until the number of matches caught up with him). We played with a consistent formation (until we were chasing the decisive game with 10 up front!) They seem happy that DH has got the job.  I’m feeling positive for the new season exactly a month away and I hope we get off to a good start. 

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6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Good OP. 

Genuinely confused as to who you have referred to in each of the striker descriptions though..? 

I PRESUME:

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level.

WELLS

Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position.

FAM (although not sure about the out of position point)

Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1

SEMENYO


and experienced workhorse.

WEIMANN 

 

 

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Our defence is mid table quality and so is our midfield. On paper individuals look fine, but for the life of me I can't see how they connect.

We've basically done what pretty much every average Club has done in this league...tick boxes.

Let's face it... apart from a few stand out teams, we are the same as anyone else in this league.

Tbh...I've not posted much since lockdown...because I've read so much that has led me to believe a lot of our fan base on here are delusional.

We are a mid table team imo...regardless of present owner, manager, board etc.

Seriously...as amateur online coachson here that think they know stuff..no offence to anyone, myself included, how the hell would you get promotion with what we have to hand... seriously? Dream land. Midfield is seriously weak.

Nothing fits. Players tick boxes but don't fit one another.

Imagine being a bigger club and reading this forum... it's kinda weird how so many have fallen for the SL speil of top 6. 

Forget what's in the media...look from the outside and imagine you aren't a City fan.

Different gravy...

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3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Suppose this isn’t city and you’ve not just seen the debacle of the last five weeks and I came to you with the following team in a 3-5-2 formation:

GK: A player with significant experience at this level, good distribution. Can lose confidence but was considered POTY at a playoff chasing side for the first half of the season. Backed up by an academy prospect who’s performed excellently at the level below.

RB: Good going forward and tenacious, but probably not top 10 quality. Comfortable championship player. Backup unproven but has good experience at the level below.

LB: England U21 international. POTY in league 1 at age 19, comfortable at this level and likely top six player. Backed up by experienced head

CB x3: 1 x £8m player with experience of 3 promotions from this level, 1 x highly rated ballplaying CB who has captained England at youth levels. 1 x no nonsense defender with 70+ prem games and good championship experience. More than adept at this level. Questions over depth.

CM x 3: Perm from:

- Current first choice Wales CM, POTY at L1 club last year

- Current first choice Hungary midfielder. Regarded as countries best player and now fully fit after season of adapting

- Highly rated 18 year old CM who played in CL at 17

- POTY in league one nicknamed Messi by teammates last year

- Mercurial ball player who has lost way recently but been promoted from this level. Only 23 still and with bags of talent

- Cultured, slightly lightweight player who scored multiple goals of high quality in the restart

- ROI international - more rated at that level than league

Backed up by player who had good L1 loan spell but lacks experience at this level and promising youngster who had good L2 loan spell

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level. Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position. Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1 and experienced workhorse.

If I looked at that, and it wasn’t us, I’d see a side where you can quite easily argue top 6 - it’s got an experienced and decent quality GK, a good back line (god knows what happened last year), some real potential and ball players in CM and a top quality striker. That’s with the expected two departures.

So, if we get in some players in what look to be the areas we look to be short (CF, RB, CB cover) - is there any reason we shouldn’t be optimistic??

Superb post

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15 minutes ago, eardun said:

I PRESUME:

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level.

WELLS

Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position.

FAM (although not sure about the out of position point)

Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1

SEMENYO


and experienced workhorse.

WEIMANN 

 

 

Close. I was going for Weimann as the second striker and Watkins as the workhorse. AW, when he came here, stated he came as he wanted to play up front. Did, and started like a train. Then LJ started moving him wide right, wide left etc which was exactly his Derby problem. He’s still got high single figures goals with us each season.

My analysis was predicated on Fam leaving - and don’t get me wrong, I seriously think we need another front man on the assumption he does - and I wouldn’t want to rely on AW as a starter, but when you have him as #2 behind Wells, it doesn’t look a bad combo (30 goals a year?).

@spudski - respect your opinion fella, but with respect I’m looking at this from the view of an opposing fan. We’re all pretty down on the club and I reckon a large part of that was down to the football under LJ even before the appointment debacle. I think as opposed to midfield being “seriously weak”, it shows “serious potential”.

Parallel: If we signed Ivan Toney the excitement would be palpable - we’d signed a player with rave reviews as the best striker outside the top two divisions. Instead, we’ve just gained the top two midfielders in league one who have had serious reviews. If they were signings as opposed to returning loans, would you be so down on our midfield options?

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I agree with spudski that I don’t see us as being particularly strong in most areas. However , if we can significantly strengthen in a few areas , we could have a decent season.

I do wonder though , regarding formation if that’s the way we’ll go 352. I know the new coaches are here to assist Dean , but surely they’ll be influential in this area as well. 
They would probably have coached  the young England sides in 433 , similar to the first team ( have nothing to back this up mind) Just wondered how/if this may affect things. 
it would be nice if the players we brought in were for specific positions in a specific formation , and not just clubs in the bloody bag . 🙄

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Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Close. I was going for Weimann as the second striker and Watkins as the workhorse. AW, when he came here, stated he came as he wanted to play up front. Did, and started like a train. Then LJ started moving him wide right, wide left etc which was exactly his Derby problem. He’s still got high single figures goals with us each season.

My analysis was predicated on Fam leaving - and don’t get me wrong, I seriously think we need another front man on the assumption he does - and I wouldn’t want to rely on AW as a starter, but when you have him as #2 behind Wells, it doesn’t look a bad combo (30 goals a year?).

@spudski - respect your opinion fella, but with respect I’m looking at this from the view of an opposing fan. We’re all pretty down on the club and I reckon a large part of that was down to the football under LJ even before the appointment debacle. I think as opposed to midfield being “seriously weak”, it shows “serious potential”.

Parallel: If we signed Ivan Toney the excitement would be palpable - we’d signed a player with rave reviews as the best striker outside the top two divisions. Instead, we’ve just gained the top two midfielders in league one who have had serious reviews. If they were signings as opposed to returning loans, would you be so down on our midfield options?

I respect your opinion mate...but I've stepped away from commenting much on here. It's so negative. I get fans passion...but it's like when you immerse yourself in all this C19 nonsense...common sense goes out the window. Read so much and before you know it your in the bubble of negativity and responding to every thread and subliminally taking in all the bs that clouds judgement.

It takes over common sense. 

Take away SL saying he's hoping for top 6 and you can see for your own eyes we aren't that.

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I’m optimistic in the sense I’m hoping for the best.

I just wish the club would be more honest about their intentions.

I don’t have a problem being a selling club with a great academy.

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Good OP. 

Genuinely confused as to who you have referred to in each of the striker descriptions though..? 

⬇️⬇️⬇️

1 hour ago, eardun said:

I PRESUME:

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level.

WELLS

Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position.

FAM (although not sure about the out of position point)

Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1

SEMENYO


and experienced workhorse.

WEIMANN 

 

 

⬇️⬇️⬇️

37 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Close. I was going for Weimann as the second striker and Watkins as the workhorse. AW, when he came here, stated he came as he wanted to play up front. Did, and started like a train. Then LJ started moving him wide right, wide left etc which was exactly his Derby problem. He’s still got high single figures goals with us each season.

My analysis was predicated on Fam leaving - and don’t get me wrong, I seriously think we need another front man on the assumption he does - and I wouldn’t want to rely on AW as a starter, but when you have him as #2 behind Wells, it doesn’t look a bad combo (30 goals a year?).

@spudski - respect your opinion fella, but with respect I’m looking at this from the view of an opposing fan. We’re all pretty down on the club and I reckon a large part of that was down to the football under LJ even before the appointment debacle. I think as opposed to midfield being “seriously weak”, it shows “serious potential”.

Parallel: If we signed Ivan Toney the excitement would be palpable - we’d signed a player with rave reviews as the best striker outside the top two divisions. Instead, we’ve just gained the top two midfielders in league one who have had serious reviews. If they were signings as opposed to returning loans, would you be so down on our midfield options?

Silvio is Ted Rogers and you just won Dusty Bin! 😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

Our defence is mid table quality and so is our midfield. On paper individuals look fine, but for the life of me I can't see how they connect.

We've basically done what pretty much every average Club has done in this league...tick boxes.

Let's face it... apart from a few stand out teams, we are the same as anyone else in this league.

Tbh...I've not posted much since lockdown...because I've read so much that has led me to believe a lot of our fan base on here are delusional.

We are a mid table team imo...regardless of present owner, manager, board etc.

Seriously...as amateur online coachson here that think they know stuff..no offence to anyone, myself included, how the hell would you get promotion with what we have to hand... seriously? Dream land. Midfield is seriously weak.

Nothing fits. Players tick boxes but don't fit one another.

Imagine being a bigger club and reading this forum... it's kinda weird how so many have fallen for the SL speil of top 6. 

Forget what's in the media...look from the outside and imagine you aren't a City fan.

Different gravy...

But didn’t you see that 45 minutes against Middlesbrough!!!!

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4 hours ago, Victory Park Reds said:

I turned 50 over the weekend and literally saw city every week from the 1st div down to the 4th .Believe me this is not a crisis!!!

 

Bristol City managed to get relegated on my 50th birthday, 16th April 2013. You couldn't make it up....

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9 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Suppose this isn’t city and you’ve not just seen the debacle of the last five weeks and I came to you with the following team in a 3-5-2 formation:

GK: A player with significant experience at this level, good distribution. Can lose confidence but was considered POTY at a playoff chasing side for the first half of the season. Backed up by an academy prospect who’s performed excellently at the level below.

RB: Good going forward and tenacious, but probably not top 10 quality. Comfortable championship player. Backup unproven but has good experience at the level below.

LB: England U21 international. POTY in league 1 at age 19, comfortable at this level and likely top six player. Backed up by experienced head

CB x3: 1 x £8m player with experience of 3 promotions from this level, 1 x highly rated ballplaying CB who has captained England at youth levels. 1 x no nonsense defender with 70+ prem games and good championship experience. More than adept at this level. Questions over depth.

CM x 3: Perm from:

- Current first choice Wales CM, POTY at L1 club last year

- Current first choice Hungary midfielder. Regarded as countries best player and now fully fit after season of adapting

- Highly rated 18 year old CM who played in CL at 17

- POTY in league one nicknamed Messi by teammates last year

- Mercurial ball player who has lost way recently but been promoted from this level. Only 23 still and with bags of talent

- Cultured, slightly lightweight player who scored multiple goals of high quality in the restart

- ROI international - more rated at that level than league

Backed up by player who had good L1 loan spell but lacks experience at this level and promising youngster who had good L2 loan spell

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level. Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position. Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1 and experienced workhorse.

If I looked at that, and it wasn’t us, I’d see a side where you can quite easily argue top 6 - it’s got an experienced and decent quality GK, a good back line (god knows what happened last year), some real potential and ball players in CM and a top quality striker. That’s with the expected two departures.

So, if we get in some players in what look to be the areas we look to be short (CF, RB, CB cover) - is there any reason we shouldn’t be optimistic??

Sounds great!  Who's head coach?  🤦‍♂️

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7 hours ago, eardun said:

I PRESUME:

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level.

WELLS

Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position.

FAM (although not sure about the out of position point)

Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1

SEMENYO


and experienced workhorse.

WEIMANN 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Close. I was going for Weimann as the second striker and Watkins as the workhorse. AW, when he came here, stated he came as he wanted to play up front. Did, and started like a train. Then LJ started moving him wide right, wide left etc which was exactly his Derby problem. He’s still got high single figures goals with us each season.

My analysis was predicated on Fam leaving - and don’t get me wrong, I seriously think we need another front man on the assumption he does - and I wouldn’t want to rely on AW as a starter, but when you have him as #2 behind Wells, it doesn’t look a bad combo (30 goals a year?).

@spudski - respect your opinion fella, but with respect I’m looking at this from the view of an opposing fan. We’re all pretty down on the club and I reckon a large part of that was down to the football under LJ even before the appointment debacle. I think as opposed to midfield being “seriously weak”, it shows “serious potential”.

Parallel: If we signed Ivan Toney the excitement would be palpable - we’d signed a player with rave reviews as the best striker outside the top two divisions. Instead, we’ve just gained the top two midfielders in league one who have had serious reviews. If they were signings as opposed to returning loans, would you be so down on our midfield options?

Nice opening post and you're right that opposition fans often seem to view our club far more positively than we see ourselves. I think most of us do the same in reverse. We wax lyrical about PNE, Brentford and others, but their fans are just as fickle as we can be.

I found your description of the defence the most encouraging. I think the fact that you could only get one line out about most of the midfielders reveals a lot about that part of the team.

Finally a note on the strikers: Wells has never scored 20 goals in a season. You can argue that this season his 18 in 43 between two clubs indicates that he could get 20 in a 46 game season, but he's never actually done it. In fact Diedhiou actually has a better goals/game record than Wells.

But thanks, you've broadly encouraged me with that write up, and it's good to try some different perspectives.

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15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Suppose this isn’t city and you’ve not just seen the debacle of the last five weeks and I came to you with the following team in a 3-5-2 formation:

GK: A player with significant experience at this level, good distribution. Can lose confidence but was considered POTY at a playoff chasing side for the first half of the season. Backed up by an academy prospect who’s performed excellently at the level below.

RB: Good going forward and tenacious, but probably not top 10 quality. Comfortable championship player. Backup unproven but has good experience at the level below.

LB: England U21 international. POTY in league 1 at age 19, comfortable at this level and likely top six player. Backed up by experienced head

CB x3: 1 x £8m player with experience of 3 promotions from this level, 1 x highly rated ballplaying CB who has captained England at youth levels. 1 x no nonsense defender with 70+ prem games and good championship experience. More than adept at this level. Questions over depth.

CM x 3: Perm from:

- Current first choice Wales CM, POTY at L1 club last year

- Current first choice Hungary midfielder. Regarded as countries best player and now fully fit after season of adapting

- Highly rated 18 year old CM who played in CL at 17

- POTY in league one nicknamed Messi by teammates last year

- Mercurial ball player who has lost way recently but been promoted from this level. Only 23 still and with bags of talent

- Cultured, slightly lightweight player who scored multiple goals of high quality in the restart

- ROI international - more rated at that level than league

Backed up by player who had good L1 loan spell but lacks experience at this level and promising youngster who had good L2 loan spell

CF - A 20 goal a season player, renowned as one of the best finishers at this level. Partnered by a hard working second striker who generally hits 8-10 but suffers from being out of position. Backed up by promising youngster who had Loan in L1 and experienced workhorse.

If I looked at that, and it wasn’t us, I’d see a side where you can quite easily argue top 6 - it’s got an experienced and decent quality GK, a good back line (god knows what happened last year), some real potential and ball players in CM and a top quality striker. That’s with the expected two departures.

So, if we get in some players in what look to be the areas we look to be short (CF, RB, CB cover) - is there any reason we shouldn’t be optimistic??

Had a day of travelling back from Turkey via Gatwick yesterday and this coupled with having lost a lot of love (from a stockpile of love that was already running on fumes), I’m struggling to work out who this is. 

Someone please just help me out!

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11 hours ago, spudski said:

Our defence is mid table quality and so is our midfield. On paper individuals look fine, but for the life of me I can't see how they connect.

We've basically done what pretty much every average Club has done in this league...tick boxes.

Let's face it... apart from a few stand out teams, we are the same as anyone else in this league.

Tbh...I've not posted much since lockdown...because I've read so much that has led me to believe a lot of our fan base on here are delusional.

We are a mid table team imo...regardless of present owner, manager, board etc.

Seriously...as amateur online coachson here that think they know stuff..no offence to anyone, myself included, how the hell would you get promotion with what we have to hand... seriously? Dream land. Midfield is seriously weak.

Nothing fits. Players tick boxes but don't fit one another.

Imagine being a bigger club and reading this forum... it's kinda weird how so many have fallen for the SL speil of top 6. 

Forget what's in the media...look from the outside and imagine you aren't a City fan.

Different gravy...

We’ve only really seen this squad under LJ. They weren’t a team, just a group of individuals. Together as a team, the right man should be able to get a good team out of the squad... that’s what makes me so sad that we’ve backed the 20/1 rank outsider, rather than the 6/4 favourite. 

Fingers crossed for Holden. 

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58 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Had a day of travelling back from Turkey via Gatwick yesterday and this coupled with having lost a lot of love (from a stockpile of love that was already running on fumes), I’m struggling to work out who this is. 

Someone please just help me out!

Kasey Palmer.

I thought that was an easy one!

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You worked out who Dusty Bin was, but unfortunately you ended up with the Fondue set

I just about have memories of 3,2,1 - I wonder if there have ever been harder riddles?!

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11 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

We’ve only really seen this squad under LJ. They weren’t a team, just a group of individuals. Together as a team, the right man should be able to get a good team out of the squad... that’s what makes me so sad that we’ve backed the 20/1 rank outsider, rather than the 6/4 favourite. 

Fingers crossed for Holden. 

We're in a similar boat though- look at Bournemouth and Watford- actually don't research it unless you know but guess who they've appointed.

It'll be Howe to Watford, or Hughton, or Cook- or one of Hughton or Cook to Watford- perhaps even a Jokanovic return! Oh yes.

What- it wasn't anyone of note. :)

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