Lansdown and Ashton have beaten me.

[Clutton Caveman]

2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

That's extremely cynical mate

Ever worked in financial services?

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, NickJ said:

I wasn't going to look at this thread, expecting it to just be another rant.

I was wrong, and glad I did. Agree with nearly all of it.

 

Fair play mate you couldn't be any clearer where the problem lies although of course the OP is right to call out the bizarre appointment of Ashton in the first place given his previous track record and the equally absurd appointments of Johnson and now Holden, both of whom would not be given jobs as managers at any other Championship club.

I really don't understand Lansdown's logic. His investment is not altruistic, he does not want to lose money, and to get the necessary return from the assets (ie stadium and associated businesses) he needs a successful football team. If he seriously think the above mentioned appointments are more likely to achieve that over all the other possibilities, perhaps he's going nuts!

FFP is of course a factor with this Holden appointment IMO. 

Not yet been scrapped despite Covid has it? In fact the EFL are silent on amendments. 

I think LJ did alright but ran out of road. 

Ashton delivers good profits on trading. There's that expression again, FFP. Dunno if you've read the regulations in full but they give the EFL a fair bit of monitoring potential.

[Lrrr]

Copied and pasted it into word, the op is 4457 words long..... that's longer than most my pieces of work at university which would take me weeks to do 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, RedRock said:

Agree and can appreciate the Club on the announcement having to claim he was the best for the job, even though most of us think he clearly wasn’t. 

The only difference is we took 5-6 weeks to do it, our Owner gave every indication we weren’t going to do it and neither Club had 2 years of dire, clueless, unentertaining football preceding the internal appointments. 

Anyhow, we are where we are. Ashton’s now on his last life and if it goes pear-shaped will be gone. So there are upsides in all this ! 

The madhouse story continues. 

Yeah that 5-6 weeks being wasted was not good.

Hindered preparations for a start, made us look somewhat shambolic, the mixed messages from the top. Not good. 

Think 2018/19 was better than 2019/20 IMO. We actually seemed to create some chances at times, in some games dominated the ball and the game. 

Indeed but for bad luck we might have made playoffs. See the number of times we hit woodwork over season, see a number of poor to terrible refereeing decisions. I'm thinking of some notable examples:

1) Norwich at home in December under the lights. Tettey was quite lucky to avoid 2nd yellow on 3 occasions.

Was a well fought draw but had Tettey gone like he should, we were on top at time and may have done it.

2) Derby away the next week. Never actually seen it myself as I was away that day but Weimann's disallowed goal people on here were convinced was onside. 

3) Aston Villa away in April. Weimann disallowed at 0-0.

That was very tight in real time in fairness but their penalty in 2nd half was appalling. You get one for and one against you its a bit disappointing and meh but it can happen, but both same game?? Weimann had 3-4 wrongly disallowed that year tbh.

4) Derby at home. No factoring in of the conditions or context, straight red for Semenyo bloody hell.

Even if we agree with the decision Huddlestone had a similar that only got yellow IIRC.

Our old friend the woodwork struck again, when Semenyo was off we put them under some real pressure at 1-0, equalise with the sense of injustice and the crowd up and who knows!

I think we were unlucky in some ways not to make playoffs that season. This season however was a big fail!

[Rich]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

FFP is of course a factor with this Holden appointment IMO. 

Not yet been scrapped despite Covid has it? In fact the EFL are silent on amendments. 

I think LJ did alright but ran out of road. 

Ashton delivers good profits on trading. There's that expression again, FFP. Dunno if you've read the regulations in full but they give the EFL a fair bit of monitoring potential.

If as you say that it's your opinion that FFP has played a part in this appointment, do you not think it's strange that the club haven't used it as a factor to explain their reasoning in appointing Holden?

The owner didn't mentioned it as a factor, when he stated we wanted someone to take us to the next level. Our CEO hasn't mentioned that it was a part of the process and our chairman hasn't mentioned it as a consideration of the appointment process. Instead, they have left themselves open to criticism from all quarters regarding their initial targets, the interviews continued regardless and in the end, they went for what they knew. Which in my opinion, was the only person willing to work within their framework.

I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, I'm questioning why it hasn't been used as a reason, or part of the reason for the appointment of Holden. 

[RedRock]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

If as you say that it's your opinion that FFP has played a part in this appointment, do you not think it's strange that the club haven't used it as a factor to explain their reasoning in appointing Holden?

The owner didn't mentioned it as a factor, when he stated we wanted someone to take us to the next level. Our CEO hasn't mentioned that it was a part of the process and our chairman hasn't mentioned it as a consideration of the appointment process. Instead, they have left themselves open to criticism from all quarters regarding their initial targets, the interviews continued regardless and in the end, they went for what they knew. Which in my opinion, was the only person willing to work within their framework.

I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, I'm questioning why it hasn't been used as a reason, or part of the reason for the appointment of Holden. 

Hardly a good start for a new appointment to say there was better available, but we choose the bloke who wasn’t our first choice because he was cheap. Don't think that would’ve be great for Dean or the morale of the squad.

The five weeks and SLs Talksport broadcast are, however, difficult to fathom. Can only guess that they tried to negotiate with Hughton, Cook and others salaries and transfer funds less than they wanted and were prepared to agree. Wonder whether after SLs broadcast, new income figures (and SLs personal wealth projections) were calculated showing likely available funds falling off a cliff-edge. 

All very odd though, until you realise it’s City we’re talking about. 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Rich said:

If as you say that it's your opinion that FFP has played a part in this appointment, do you not think it's strange that the club haven't used it as a factor to explain their reasoning in appointing Holden?

The owner didn't mentioned it as a factor, when he stated we wanted someone to take us to the next level. Our CEO hasn't mentioned that it was a part of the process and our chairman hasn't mentioned it as a consideration of the appointment process. Instead, they have left themselves open to criticism from all quarters regarding their initial targets, the interviews continued regardless and in the end, they went for what they knew. Which in my opinion, was the only person willing to work within their framework.

I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, I'm questioning why it hasn't been used as a reason, or part of the reason for the appointment of Holden. 

Maybe FFP the wrong term. Financial uncertainty could be another.

Clubs like to put the best slant on things and such a claim could undermine Holden before he started. A 12-month rolling contract feels interesting though. 

Maybe managers and I don't just mean here, see also Bournemouth and Watford appointments, have their expectations still stuck in pre Covid times. It's always a tough balancing act in this situation.

Ashton declares on 22nd April that this ie 2020/21 will be a season of austerity. SL goes on Talksport as he does. Mixed messaging or what??

Another slant maybe Holden steady the ship, develop a style, some youth. Renew some, trade some, sell some.

Next summer when lots of players out of contract, 'Thank you and Goodbye and good luck' and a new more established Head Coach in with a blanker canvas to work from.

Could the club have a longer-term vision such as this in mind?

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Hardly a good start for a new appointment to say there was better available, but we choose the bloke who wasn’t our first choice because he was cheap. Don't think that would’ve be great for Dean or the morale of the squad.

The five weeks and SLs Talksport broadcast are, however, difficult to fathom. Can only guess that they tried to negotiate with Hughton, Cook and others salaries and transfer funds less than they wanted and were prepared to agree. Wonder whether after SLs broadcast, new income figures (and SLs personal wealth projections) were calculated showing likely available funds falling off a cliff-edge. 

All very odd though, until you realise it’s City we’re talking about. 

 

 

The actions and words expressed prior to his appointment indicate that they were trying for someone shall we say, better qualified, so I expect Dean knows he wasn't the first choice. If Covid then played a part in their thinking and changed over the process, then I think they'd have used that as  part of their reasoning, they haven't as far as I know. Raising the question, did covid play a part?

[Rich]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe FFP the wrong term. Financial uncertainty could be another.

Clubs like to put the best slant on things and such a claim could undermine Holden before he started. A 12-month rolling contract feels interesting though. 

Maybe managers and I don't just mean here, see also Bournemouth and Watford appointments, have their expectations still stuck in pre Covid times. It's always a tough balancing act in this situation.

Ashton declares on 22nd April that this ie 2020/21 will be a season of austerity. SL goes on Talksport as he does. Mixed messaging or what??

Another slant maybe Holden steady the ship, develop a style, some youth. Renew some, trade some, sell some.

Next summer when lots of players out of contract, 'Thank you and Goodbye and good luck' and a new more established Head Coach in with a blanker canvas to work from.

Could the club have a longer-term vision such as this in mind?

I think that's what it is, steady the ship until times are more easy to predict. The long term plan is steady progress, maybe they need to just tread water this year. They could easily have implied that they had to do that. Instead they've come out with a load of tosh about Dean being the best for the job but, insuring themselves against failure with a miserly 12 month contract,

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Hardly a good start for a new appointment to say there was better available, but we choose the bloke who wasn’t our first choice because he was cheap. Don't think that would’ve be great for Dean or the morale of the squad.

The five weeks and SLs Talksport broadcast are, however, difficult to fathom. Can only guess that they tried to negotiate with Hughton, Cook and others salaries and transfer funds less than they wanted and were prepared to agree. Wonder whether after SLs broadcast, new income figures (and SLs personal wealth projections) were calculated showing likely available funds falling off a cliff-edge. 

All very odd though, until you realise it’s City we’re talking about. 

 

 

I don't think Dean, the new coaches or the squad will care one iota about the "how" (they got the job). They are now in the job and it's theirs to lose in effect, a definite case of being given an opportunity and trying to make the job your own. Holden has literally fast tracked himself into a position he could never realistically have dreamed of......he won't die wondering that's for sure.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Rich said:

I think that's what it is, steady the ship until times are more easy to predict. The long term plan is steady progress, maybe they need to just tread water this year. They could easily have implied that they had to do that. Instead they've come out with a load of tosh about Dean being the best for the job but, insuring themselves against failure with a miserly 12 month contract,

Never know, might do well.

Read some encouraging stuff online, on City Till I Die FB page about 11 a side v 11 a side training games, really drilling the system and shape.

It's good to have that insurance policy just in case.

[Rich]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Never know, might do well.

Read some encouraging stuff online, on City Till I Die FB page about 11 a side v 11 a side training games, really drilling the system and shape.

It's good to have that insurance policy just in case.

I quite agree, Mr Holden has nothing to lose and everything to gain. He's fallen on his feet, after probably expecting to be finding employment elsewhere, no doubt he fought his case strongly. The team will have my full backing, just hope he can persuade any players thinking of departing or those he wants to join, into believing that BCFC offers a chance of success, time will tell.