Semenyo

[And Its Smith]

33 minutes ago, Hare Island said:

Been sent out on loan to progress and experience but hasn’t grabbed the chance in the same way Smith, Morrell, Walsh have. Has had chances, has started games and hasn’t looked like kicking on. 

Thank goodness you aren’t in charge of our young players.  Players develop at different rates. He is only 20.  Lots of professional coaches have said how good he is going to be so think best to side with their opinion! 

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

All we do know is that it was utterly bizarre given that he went from playing for Mike Flynn week in, week out to sitting on his arse collecting splinters week in, week out. I do believe for a second that LJ recommended that, I would suggest it APPEARS to be textbook interference from a non-footballing "expert", but as you say we will never know the final answer. Those 15-20 games he missed sent his career temporarily backwards.

He really should be on a par with Walsh, Morrell and O'Leary in the experience stakes by now......we have to hope that Downing and Simpson can get him up and running without a further loan required for him to "catch up".

Players develop at different rates.

Joe Morrell had 3 non-league loans which weren't exactly world beating before he went to Cheltenham, then finally clicked at Lincoln when he was 22/23. Semenyo is 20 and didn't have the benefit of professional Academy training which is maybe why he looks very raw. I'd expect the coaches to have a real close look at him during pre-season to see what is best - they may well keep him here to work on before deciding on a loan move for him.

 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, bcfc01 said:

Players develop at different rates.

Joe Morrell had 3 non-league loans which weren't exactly world beating before he went to Cheltenham, then finally clicked at Lincoln when he was 22/23. Semenyo is 20 and didn't have the benefit of professional Academy training which is maybe why he looks very raw. I'd expect the coaches to have a real close look at him during pre-season to see what is best - they may well keep him here to work on before deciding on a loan move for him.

 

Totally agree. The bit I just cannot understand was the decision to bring him back from Newport just at the time he was really starting to hit his straps and people were taking notice. The fact that he got very little game time under LJ tells me a lot and that "decision" put the lad back significantly as it simply resulted in him not playing football matches with the big boys (men). Those additional 15-20 matches he would have played in for Mike Flynn could quite easily have fast tracked his progress particularly given the lad, as you correctly say, was raw to start with.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Had enough chances? Started about 2 games.

 

And touched the ball about twice in both.

I'd be unhappy to see him start again TBH as things stand and would prefer a loan where he'd be guaranteed game time at L1 level.  If we can't achieve that, we should sell the guy. He's just part of the bulkage of our squad that people complain about.

 

[sglosbcfc]

Wasn't he recalled from Newport because he counts as 'home grown' and we only had him and Woolacott who could be in the bench to fill that slot?

 

[YorkshireSection]

13 hours ago, Nomad said:

Getting taller at 20? Unlikely, most lads stop growing at 16 or so.

You actually stop growing at around age 23. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, sglosbcfc said:

Wasn't he recalled from Newport because he counts as 'home grown' and we only had him and Woolacott who could be in the bench to fill that slot?

 

That is a shockingly poor reason to stunt a player's development. If you literally have a slot to fill then put any of the first year pro's on the bench.

[bcfc01]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Totally agree. The bit I just cannot understand was the decision to bring him back from Newport just at the time he was really starting to hit his straps and people were taking notice. The fact that he got very little game time under LJ tells me a lot and that "decision" put the lad back significantly as it simply resulted in him not playing football matches with the big boys (men). Those additional 15-20 matches he would have played in for Mike Flynn could quite easily have fast tracked his progress particularly given the lad, as you correctly say, was raw to start with.

Two possible explanations;

At that time, Chelsea were sniffing around and it may well be that the club called him back as the prospect of getting a shed load of money for him outweighed him playing and potentially getting injured.

Or maybe LJ wanted to get him back to train with the first team under his coaching with a view to fast tracking him into the first team.

Second one is far more likely imo.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, bcfc01 said:

Two possible explanations;

At that time, Chelsea were sniffing around and it may well be that the club called him back as the prospect of getting a shed load of money for him outweighed him playing and potentially getting injured.

Or maybe LJ wanted to get him back to train with the first team under his coaching with a view to fast tracking him into the first team.

Second one is far more likely imo.

I know it's with the benefit of hindsight but the club got that decision badly wrong.

[bearded_red]

20 million pound player in 8 a side isn’t he?

[WirralRobin]

Completely agree with the other posts pointing out Semenyo is almost exactly 3 years younger than Morrell and it is only now that Morrell seems set to play a key role in the first team. Add to that that Semenyo did not have the 'academy' background of others like Walsh and it's obvious patients is required.

I'd be more than happy with Semenyo dropping down to league 1 or even league 2 on loan. The important thing from my point of view is he gets a full season under his belt in an attacking side that will create chances for him / give him the ability to get on the ball lot's. Saying that if the new coaching set up decides he's ready to be back up to Nakhi & Weimann (if Fam goes and we don't replace him) then I'd back their judgement on them on that too. If that is the case though I'd like to see him given a reasonable amount of game time and persevered with even if he has a bad game or two. 

 

[Nicki's soulmate]

13 hours ago, Nomad said:

Getting taller at 20? Unlikely, most lads stop growing at 16 or so.

It's around 21, then people get wider

[Major Isewater]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Totally agree. The bit I just cannot understand was the decision to bring him back from Newport just at the time he was really starting to hit his straps and people were taking notice. The fact that he got very little game time under LJ tells me a lot and that "decision" put the lad back significantly as it simply resulted in him not playing football matches with the big boys (men). Those additional 15-20 matches he would have played in for Mike Flynn could quite easily have fast tracked his progress particularly given the lad, as you correctly say, was raw to start with.

I believe they bought him back to either put Chelsea off bidding or to increase his value buy giving him some Championship games and hopefully goals . 

[BristolJoe]

I'd like to see him stay rather than go out on loan. Only saw him in a City shirt for a handful of minutes but when I did he looked creative and good on the ball. Let's hope for a bit of a League Cup run this year to give some of the youngsters some minutes.

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Did recalling him from Newport when we did help or hinder his development?

I always feel that a consistent loan spell- ideally a season- helps on this front. Probably should be looking at moving him on loan to a good League One club IMO.

It seemed like the wrong thing to do at the time and hindsight backs that up. There was a suspicion that Lee Johnson was coerced into recalling Semenyo by the powers above which would be a damning indictment if true.

[redpole]

I think Simpson will be good for him, he’s still young and developing, if Simpson can get him performing more regular then this could be a season for him to push on and try and grab a starting position, although I do feel he needs a good season under is belt with a team like Plymouth where he will get 30/35 games. However finances might effect our budget and he will have to continue with us this season and grab his chances from the bench. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Who was responsible for recalling him from Newport?

2 hours ago, Seneca the Younger said:

There will be 1000 different responses claiming it was SL/JL/LJ/MA/Maggie/The Shed Man/The Broom on The Dolman, but we will never know.

I can’t remember what I was told and whether it was LJ or MA....but the sentiment was “this is a bit embarrassing, he’s getting too much spotlight, the big clubs are watching, let’s get him back and either see him do great for us or put him back in the background”.  Which to me sounds very petty.  As I said, I can’t remember who instigated it, but it didn’t work at the time.

As for Semenyo, let’s just  see what happens.  He’s 20....he’s not had the benefit of going through the traditional academy route, so he’s raw in many aspects of his play.  Kodjia didn’t go through the typical French system and was approaching 23/24before he really started to shine through back in France.  Not saying he’s Kodjia, but if the club think there is something there he has time on his side.

[Jeez]

Patience needed with this kid. Needs to go out & earn his place in the 1st team. 

Was a major error of judgement bringing him back from Newport that January. He hadn’t done anywhere near enough to justify it.

[Kingswoodactor]

My issue with Semenyo is that I just don't know what is best position is? The clips I watched of him whilst at Newport, he seemed to be very industrious on the left hand side, and in their cup win over Leicester he was doing great defensive work helping out his team down the left hand side and even in the corner; where he used his strength really well to buy his team some time and take the heat out of the game. 

For me he could be useful on the left as part of a front 3, or does he have more of a future as a midfielder or even a left wing back to compete with Jay? We have too much competition for central attacking mids and at no 10 (KP, Pato, Szmodics, Walsh, Weimann) so no chance he gets to play in that role. I also don't see him as a central striker. 

IMO a season long loan to a league 1 team looking to push on with some good attacking play would be a good move. Somewhere like Peterborough or Portsmouth I reckon. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

My issue with Semenyo is that I just don't know what is best position is? The clips I watched of him whilst at Newport, he seemed to be very industrious on the left hand side, and in their cup win over Leicester he was doing great defensive work helping out his team down the left hand side and even in the corner; where he used his strength really well to buy his team some time and take the heat out of the game. 

For me he could be useful on the left as part of a front 3, or does he have more of a future as a midfielder or even a left wing back to compete with Jay? We have too much competition for central attacking mids and at no 10 (KP, Pato, Szmodics, Walsh, Weimann) so no chance he gets to play in that role. I also don't see him as a central striker. 

IMO a season long loan to a league 1 team looking to push on with some good attacking play would be a good move. Somewhere like Peterborough or Portsmouth I reckon. 

I could definitely see him at Peterborough, they know how to develop a striker!

[Kingswoodactor]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I could definitely see him at Peterborough, they know how to develop a striker!

I know they are really fond of Szmodics, so would keep em happy by letting them take Semenyo on!

I can see Sammy pushing to get in our side this season for sure, and I think could be a good fit as a 2nd striker behind Wells.

[Monkeh]

don't rate him to be honest, I'd have him behind hinds and lemonheigh-evans in terms of development, and possbily sam pearson

[BigTone]

14 hours ago, Nomad said:

Getting taller at 20? Unlikely, most lads stop growing at 16 or so.

Or plays in stilettos 

[RedRaw]

10 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

don't rate him to be honest, I'd have him behind hinds and lemonheigh-evans in terms of development, and possbily sam pearson

Lemonleigh about to be released isn’t he?

[RedRock]

3 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

Lemonleigh about to be released isn’t he?

Gone to Torquay.

 

Suspect it was SL who brought Semenyo back. Trying to justify the expenditure on The Academy and his belief in the player development and overall Club strategy. 

Pretty clear to me LJ wasn’t keen at all in bringing him back or playing him. He was proven correct. 

 

I still think we have our player development strategy all wrong. This has left us with the mess we’re in now. Are Walsh, Morrell, Taylor Moore,  Vyner, O’Leary, Smith, Bakinson good enough for a Championship side pushing for promotion? No idea really. Can they play together? No idea. Aren’t we also now in the final year of Walsh’s contract? Odd we still don’t know whether he’s good enough given he’s likely to be off in 12 months.

Think we need to explore Brentford’s Under-23 approach. Rather than a bunch of individuals who look like they just met before the matches start, Brentford play like a team and appear to seamlessly slot new/development players in.

[Sheltons Army]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I could definitely see him at Peterborough, they know how to develop a striker!

(In theory) Do we not have the perfect coaches to develop him  ?

I probably am in a minority but when i've seen him I've seen some raw talent but a naivety (Unsurprising considering his background) about the 11 v 11 game and needs a lot of work , and to listen and learn on training ground

[McNasty Filth]

For me this is the one player who has been completely mismanaged by Johnson/the club in terms of recalling him when he was progressing his mental capacity Newport. 

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Pretty clear to me LJ wasn’t keen at all in bringing him back or playing him. He was proven correct

There were 1 or 2 occasions (most notably the start against Leeds), when I thought 'what the **** is Johnson doing starting him in a highly tactical game against Bielsa's side'. Think he was subbed at half time after looking completely out of his depth in terms of tactical knowledge, for which I completely blame Johnson for.  

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Suspect it was SL who brought Semenyo back. Trying to justify the expenditure on The Academy and his belief in the player development and overall Club strategy. 

Was Semenyo through the academy? I thought he was found and "bought" as an older lad - maybe that counts though?

If Steve wanted to justify the academy I'd have though Reid and Kelly in the last few years were better examples than Semenyo.

With Walsh as well didn't we buy him for £1m, play him a bit as he was apparently ready for the first team immediately, then barely see him since? It all just seems a bit of a muddle to me... Maybe I'm wrong but we don't seem to be in as position to count him as one of our youth "graduates".

[The Bard]

There are several games before the window ends.  That will show where he is in the pecking order. If he's not involved with little prospect of being so then get him out on loan to someone who will play him.

[REDOXO]

Since leaving Newport has he scored?