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Joe Morrell and Liam Walsh


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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

He’s already on a nice contract - alleged £9k per week ???

If he doesn’t sign, we will attempt to sell him now imho.  We won’t let a player at this age with market value run down his contract.

Out of interest, where does Pato fit in? (Assumes 352)

According to @JollyestOlihes already signed one.

I’ve not seen one post or mention on a podcast of Callum being in competition for any slot in their team!

Could you see Walsh dropping into a Harrison Reed role for City???Harrison Reed was never a defensive midfielder was more of a creative/battling midfielder. Something I think Walsh can be, he’s got the passing skills and also has the edge to his game to be a little nasty. I wouldn’t mind seeing him there alongside a number 8 midfielder plus an attacking midfielder if we play 3-5-2. 

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46 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Wow really?

I feel like something has gone wrong somewhere with us paying £1m for him, 9k/wk wages, and saying he was ready for the first team right away. That's a pretty big contract for us but he's basically not featured.

Did we just get it very wrong, and he was a lot further behind than we thought?

Those still seem like big sums for us to me!

I dunno.  What I believe is that LJ is too keen to “big-up” new signings of this type (different to signing Kalas or Weimann).  We did the same with Engvall and Eliasson.  It raises fans expectations but may also lead the player to think they’ve already made it here.

26 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Szmodics certainly played up front at times for Colchester though it remains to be seen if Dean wants him at all. If Peterborough raise money from sales perhaps he might end up there? They would certainly like to have him.

In any event, unless Dean adopts a tombola approach to selection, 3 players at least are not going to be getting many games.

At least 48 games this season, at least 13 midweek league games plus cup, means a lot of Sat/Tues - Sat/Tues weeks.  That will require rotation / rest.  I think Szmodics will get minutes either up top or as the more attack minded CM (assuming he’s not sold / loaned).  We will get injuries and suspensions too.  It’s gonna be about finding the balance between playing players in form and not flogging them ala Pack in 17/18.

16 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

IMO he was ready last season, as he was the best player in a championship winning league 1 team. Many of our best players from our L1 winning squad ended up at high-end champ/prem level. 

I’ve just started writing a piece on our loan approach.  In some cases I think we give them one loan too many.

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5 minutes ago, redpole said:

Could you see Walsh dropping into a Harrison Reed role for City???Harrison Reed was never a defensive midfielder was more of a creative/battling midfielder. Something I think Walsh can be, he’s got the passing skills and also has the edge to his game to be a little nasty. I wouldn’t mind seeing him there alongside a number 8 midfielder plus an attacking midfielder if we play 3-5-2. 

Will need to see what he’s like at Champ level without the ball, both when we have the ball and when we don’t.

The Coventry highlights reel is all about him on the ball.  Cruyff said you only get 3 minutes with the ball on average in a game.  I’m really interested to see him during large parts of the other 87 minutes.

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4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

The single biggest thing that’ll annoy me the most this season is if Walsh doesn’t get a fair chance, and by fair chance I mean Callum O’Dowda, not Mo Eisa. 

Agree with you about Walsh, but knowing your robust views on the appointment of Holden, where we should be in the league, Ashton's performance, the club's communication, and our style of football, if Walsh not getting a look in  really is the single biggest thing that's annoys you this season I'd take it like a shot! 

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22 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

If Holden goes with his 352 but with one holder and two box to box, then ideally I'd like a new holder in there with Morrell and Walsh being the box to box players.

Joe Williams being the ideal holding midfielder signing.

Otherwise it might be Morrell, and maybe that can work. With Walsh and maybe Paterson as the box to box.

Szmodics maybe an option in that box to box role too with his work rate. And Weimann too an option if he can perform like Boro away where he was outstanding.

I am not sure that system suits Palmer so much. Will be interesting to see what happens with Palmer under Holden.

Of course we have Nagy and Massengo too. So many options in that system. But no obvious 3 to go with.

It orked fine early last season. ?

I genuinely think we need to stop thinking 1st choice XI and thinking about players to fit roles.  Nobody in midfield or wingback is gonna start 48 games next season.  Squad depth chart shows flexibility to do just that.

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think it depends on who the other 2 are and how much defensive responsibility Palmer has.

Under Holden the 352 we saw had Weimann and Pato getting through so much work.

And who the strikers are of course matters too. 

If Palmer plays then I'd want it to be more of a free role, with 2 proper midfielders behind him. And with 2 mobile strikers ahead of him.

I don't think Palmer would be so good in a box to box role. He hasn't the stamina from what we've seen so far.

I imagine he’ll use Wells and Weimann up front (based on Diedhiou going and assuming no one comes in).

Will be interesting to see what he does with Palmer. The only 532 I have to reference it with is Cotterill’s. Palmer in theory could play the Freeman role although Freeman is more industrious.

Perhaps Palmer could play as a deep lying forward alongside Wells with a primary remit of creating changes. It would mean we could put a more industrious and defensive minded midfielder in the 3 so that it becomes a bit interchangeable like Liverpool’s. That balance might work well considering our midfield personnel.

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12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It orked fine early last season. ?

I genuinely think we need to stop thinking 1st choice XI and thinking about players to fit roles.  Nobody in midfield or wingback is gonna start 48 games next season.  Squad depth chart shows flexibility to do just that.

 

We've lost Perreira, Afobe, and Benkovic due to loans ending and its likely we'll lose Diedhiou and Eliasson.

Thats 5 big players for us and that squad doesn't look to have that much depth to it without those players. We didn't see a lot of Afobe but we know what he could bring to the squad, same for Benkovic, and I think Perreira will be a big loss as will Diedhiou if he goes. Eliasson had 14 assists last season so thats another hole to fill.

We definitely need to get some reinforcements in if possible but, barring injuries, that squad is enough to maintain Championship status but not top 6 imo.

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I think it depends on who the other 2 are and how much defensive responsibility Palmer has.

Under Holden the 352 we saw had Weimann and Pato getting through so much work.

And who the strikers are of course matters too. 

If Palmer plays then I'd want it to be more of a free role, with 2 proper midfielders behind him. And with 2 mobile strikers ahead of him.

I don't think Palmer would be so good in a box to box role. He hasn't the stamina from what we've seen so far.

I think that is the beauty of the CM3 (that’s how I’m referring to it from now on ?) is you can mix and match.

I do get your point re “industry”. Palmer is gonna have to step up to the plate in this aspect.  He was fine last season early on, but fitness and in particular his match sharpness is like a dodgy rechargeable battery and it takes him longer to recharge.  He did play under Downing for u20s before moving straight to u21s under Southgate, so wonder if that will have any bearing?

But it wouldn’t surprise me if we got an offer that he went either. ??‍♂️

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

We've lost Perreira, Afobe, and Benkovic due to loans ending and its likely we'll lose Diedhiou and Eliasson.

Thats 5 big players for us and that squad doesn't look to have that much depth to it without those players. We didn't see a lot of Afobe but we know what he could bring to the squad, same for Benkovic, and I think Perreira will be a big loss as will Diedhiou if he goes. Eliasson had 14 assists last season so thats another hole to fill.

We definitely need to get some reinforcements in if possible but, barring injuries, that squad is enough to maintain Championship status but not top 6 imo.

5 players, with a mix of contributions!!! ???

But I do get what you mean.  We should’ve seen more of Benkovic, and injury robbed us of Afobe.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

5 players, with a mix of contributions!!! ???

But I do get what you mean.  We should’ve seen more of Benkovic, and injury robbed us of Afobe.

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The point I'm labouring to make is that those we've lost/losing are experienced at this level whilst the loanees we have coming back are not proven at the level (not that I am writing any of them off especially Moore and Morrell). I don't want to seem negative but we really do need a couple or three to come in imo.

A career right back, left back, and striker is required either on loan or permanent rather than the utility cover we have- injury to Dasilva, Hunt, and Wells would be a problem.

Its a shame that Moore had one loan too many and last season was a waste for him as far I am concerned. He should have been in and around the team instead of Williams. Hopefully, he'll get some game time this season to catch up and I think Morrell could be an important player for us this season.

A season of consolidation I think, closer to playoffs than relegation hopefully.

 

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9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

The point I'm labouring to make is that those we've lost/losing are experienced at this level whilst the loanees we have coming back are not proven at the level (not that I am writing any of them off especially Moore and Morrell). I don't want to seem negative but we really do need a couple or three to come in imo.

A career right back, left back, and striker is required either on loan or permanent rather than the utility cover we have- injury to Dasilva, Hunt, and Wells would be a problem.

Its a shame that Moore had one loan too many and last season was a waste for him as far I am concerned. He should have been in and around the team instead of Williams. Hopefully, he'll get some game time this season to catch up and I think Morrell could be an important player for us this season.

A season of consolidation I think, closer to playoffs than relegation hopefully.

 

Your point about Moore is spot on.

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39 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

The point I'm labouring to make is that those we've lost/losing are experienced at this level whilst the loanees we have coming back are not proven at the level (not that I am writing any of them off especially Moore and Morrell). I don't want to seem negative but we really do need a couple or three to come in imo.

yes, pretty sure a couple will come in, especially if Diedhiou and Eliasson go.  There are experience gaps also.  This is where as fans we start to get impatient, but there might be a loan out there where we are watching dominoes fall.

Although I’ve mentioned a few times about we need to have a plan should someone come in for Bentley, all of a sudden Ramsdale back to Sheffield United creates that domino effect.  We need to be very, very ready.  Sell Bentley for the right money, and it opens up a new set of players we previously couldn’t afford, because your outlay on say Dillon Phillips is £1m versus the £5m you bring in.  Just an example.

A career right back, left back, and striker is required either on loan or permanent rather than the utility cover we have- injury to Dasilva, Hunt, and Wells would be a problem.

Ideally, I’d like to find the long term answer at RB, and get someone better than Hunt, who’s here for 4/5 seasons.  When he signed, I really thought he was the answer, but in the main he’s disappointed me defensively.  I think we can do better.  We either go Hunt/Vyner or new guy/Vyner, I see no point in having new guy/Hunt/Vyner.

I’m happy with Rowe as back-up to Dasilva.  I wouldn’t waste a signing here unless it’s someone like Tyler Blackett who can play LCB.  He’s off my scouting list as just signed for Forest.

Wells - we still have Fam....expect that if he goes (and I do think he will) then the dominoes will fall.

Its a shame that Moore had one loan too many and last season was a waste for him as far I am concerned. He should have been in and around the team instead of Williams. Hopefully, he'll get some game time this season to catch up and I think Morrell could be an important player for us this season.

Assuming we don’t bring in someone better, he must (imho) be a starter this season.  Poor decision re loan.

A season of consolidation I think, closer to playoffs than relegation hopefully.

Sat here thinking that with decent ins and outs we can be top 10.

 

Comments above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

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Regardless of who succeeded LJ, this season should be build around Morrell and Walsh. In the latter’s case, the club should be tying him down to a longer-term contract with less than a year to run. I never agreed with how LJ treated these two, and Taylor Moore for that matter.

Walsh is now in a win-win situation due the decision to loan him out. A good start for him this season and we will have another Eliasson situation on our hands, which forces his transfer value down ahead of a potential tribunal transfer next summer. 

I’m not saying sign him up to a new four-year deal immediately in the current circumstances, but the board should have a two-year deal on the table immediately. But then again, they know best ?

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Hopefully they’ll both get plenty of game time. You have to play with three central midfielders in the championship imo and a few different ways of setting them up. It looks like Holden will be going that way . The games will be condensed again as we’re starting late so plenty of rotation. Along with Walsh & Morrell we’ve got Nagy , massengo , pato ,Palmer , . Wiemann & O’dowda can also be used although I’d like to see the latter sold 

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6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.  What I believe is that LJ is too keen to “big-up” new signings of this type (different to signing Kalas or Weimann).  We did the same with Engvall and Eliasson.  It raises fans expectations but may also lead the player to think they’ve already made it here.

At least 48 games this season, at least 13 midweek league games plus cup, means a lot of Sat/Tues - Sat/Tues weeks.  That will require rotation / rest.  I think Szmodics will get minutes either up top or as the more attack minded CM (assuming he’s not sold / loaned).  We will get injuries and suspensions too.  It’s gonna be about finding the balance between playing players in form and not flogging them ala Pack in 17/18.

I’ve just started writing a piece on our loan approach.  In some cases I think we give them one loan too many.

LJ  “bigged up” all of his signings. And there were a lot. Most of them underperforming from the off. Unfortunately over the past 40 years with maybe a very few exceptions players coming here have viewed it as a pension opportunity. LJ was by and large unable to change that and in someways made it worse. 
 

I thoroughly agree regarding our loan policy under LJ. The sending out of players who couldn’t get games is laudable however Benkovic for gazillions in wages and Taylor Moore to effing Blackpool was insane.  Not bringing back Walsh and Morrell when he had an option to was reckless as we had a powder puff midfield and we signed a bloke who hadn’t played for nine months. Again insane. Some players could not get games due to the short comings of the bloke picking the team.   Benik Summed it up. “I’m happy to play and do a job for the team,” was thinly veiled code from Class act!!
 

City managers have had to work within a budget and Holden already knows this. Largely in Holdens case  because the last bloke  could have anything he wanted and just poured MoNey down the toilet.  The opposite to the five pillars and club policy 

Holden knows all this and I’m sure it played into his interview. We need Morell and Walsh playing that is also pretty clear!

 


 


 

 

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Could have two or three variants within the same shape/framework. Squad game after all.

Idea one:

Bentley

Back 3 with wingback.

 Morrell Nagy

       Walsh

  Weimann Wells

Variant on idea one

Same as above but two of our 4 CMs- say Walsh and Nagy- with Paterson in the hole and the Weimann and Wells up front. 

Variant two has it morph into a 3-4-3/3-4-2-1. That's the back 3, wingbacks, two true CMs. Weimann wide right, Paterson wide left and Wells through the middle.

This can help to counteract 2 v 1 in terms of overloads when our wingbacks get isolated and the team get pushed back as a while. 

Or. 

A more orthodox 3-5-2.

Simply 3 CBs, 3 genuine CMs, wingbacks with Wells partnering Weimann. Suppose for some games you could switch one of the CMs for Paterson, Palmer and Szmodics not so much.

Feel that in this last one, both Morrell and Walsh would get a consistent chance. Perhaps as well in the 3-4-1-2 if Walsh was the '1' as well!

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10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.  What I believe is that LJ is too keen to “big-up” new signings of this type (different to signing Kalas or Weimann).  We did the same with Engvall and Eliasson.  It raises fans expectations but may also lead the player to think they’ve already made it here.

At least 48 games this season, at least 13 midweek league games plus cup, means a lot of Sat/Tues - Sat/Tues weeks.  That will require rotation / rest.  I think Szmodics will get minutes either up top or as the more attack minded CM (assuming he’s not sold / loaned).  We will get injuries and suspensions too.  It’s gonna be about finding the balance between playing players in form and not flogging them ala Pack in 17/18.

I’ve just started writing a piece on our loan approach.  In some cases I think we give them one loan too many.

Completely agree with last paragraph.

If Alan Dicks been able to loan his youngsters en masse, would he have ever built the 1976 side?

A simple answer is NO!

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5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

i thoroughly agree regarding our loan policy under LJ. The sending out of players who couldn’t get games is laudable however Benkovic for gazillions in wages and Taylor Moore to effing Blackpool was insane.  Not bringing back Walsh and Morrell when he had an option to was reckless as we had a powder puff midfield and we signed a bloke who hadn’t played for nine months. Again insane. Some players could not get games due to the short comings of the bloke picking the team.   Benik Summed it up. “I’m happy to play and do a job for the team,” was thinly veiled code from Class act!!
 

City managers have had to work within a budget and Holden already knows this. Largely in Holdens case  because the last bloke  could have anything he wanted and just poured MoNey down the toilet.  The opposite to the five pillars and club policy 

Spot on, don’t forget Rodri and Marinovic btw! LJ had no trust in young players. 

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think what you are trying to solve is what Dean and his coaches will need to drill into whoever plays as part of our “out of possession” shape.  That shape isn’t a formation, it’s situational based. 

Yeah, well put.

I think it's a bit of both- but situational based is the key factor as you say. It's mostly situational based but different personnel would also help with different formations. Walsh or before him Brownhill dropping back into a 3 if they are the one? Absolutely! Palmer? Nope! O'Dowda and Weimann- bit more suited than Palmer but not much, Paterson between the two of excellent choice and not good IMO.

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah, well put.

I think it's a bit of both- but situational based is the key factor as you say. It's mostly situational based but different personnel would also help with different formations. Walsh or before him Brownhill dropping back into a 3 if they are the one? Absolutely! Palmer? Nope! O'Dowda and Weimann- bit more suited than Palmer but not much, Paterson between the two of excellent choice and not good IMO.

I always think the Derby (a) game is a really good example of 5212 with ball, 532 without it, with clear intention to force Derby wide, and then squeeze that side of the pitch....by shifting across purposely, not half-hearted.  Palmer got into LCM to give Rowe some help, but always with a mind to get free if we win the ball.  Some of the space he got in first half was great.  That is what I want to see.

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15 hours ago, Spoons said:

Crazy that people actually think that Walsh is going to be our saviour this season. 

He's not good enough for championship football. 

How do you work that one out? Surely being the best player in a League 1 winning Coventry side means that he is too good for League 1 football?

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11 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Spot on, don’t forget Rodri and Marinovic btw! LJ had no trust in young players. 

Not a case of no trust, its what happens when expectations are raised to finishing top 6, it becomes harder to give young players the opportunity in case they're not ready and it costs you your job. The example of Antoine, given game time before Jan but no goals, how long can you persist with a striker who doesn't score? 

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16 hours ago, Spoons said:

Crazy that people actually think that Walsh is going to be our saviour this season. 

He's not good enough for championship football. 

I have not seen any poster say he will be a ‘saviour’ but he is an incredible talent who proved that at Coventry and was the outstanding midfield player league 1 last season. He showed glimpses of his ability  before out on loan, and this has been recognised by LJ who said as much before the old heave ho. I do not expect him to be a saviour, but I am expecting him to be on the team sheet and spraying that ball around and the  creative player we have all been dreaming off for ages (Bannon style)  

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21 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Not a case of no trust, its what happens when expectations are raised to finishing top 6, it becomes harder to give young players the opportunity in case they're not ready and it costs you your job. The example of Antoine, given game time before Jan but no goals, how long can you persist with a striker who doesn't score? 

For as Long as you can when results are good too??? ???200E3034-3EAD-4D30-9D25-E4A9D1D891E4.thumb.jpeg.b44cc3d60300648e9ed6b3c6c973d83c.jpeg

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23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno.  What I believe is that LJ is too keen to “big-up” new signings of this type (different to signing Kalas or Weimann).  We did the same with Engvall and Eliasson.  It raises fans expectations but may also lead the player to think they’ve already made it here.

At least 48 games this season, at least 13 midweek league games plus cup, means a lot of Sat/Tues - Sat/Tues weeks.  That will require rotation / rest.  I think Szmodics will get minutes either up top or as the more attack minded CM (assuming he’s not sold / loaned).  We will get injuries and suspensions too.  It’s gonna be about finding the balance between playing players in form and not flogging them ala Pack in 17/18.

I’ve just started writing a piece on our loan approach.  In some cases I think we give them one loan too many.

100%.   Part of the reason for our slightly bloated squad is needing to boost numbers having loaned out players who are younger to League 1.  

On the other hand, signing League 2 players and keeping them training but not playing and then expecting them to step up when dropped into the starting line up unexpectedly is no way to go either.  Best to either involve them more sooner or loan them to League 1 to take the 1st step towards the Championship.

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4 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

As we know the step up to the Championship is huge, I think with the inexperience we have in midfield this is a big ask for both to step up. It's a big gamble to rely on what we currently have.

I disagree.  It's a step up but it isn't huge. Particularly with some experience and having proved yourself at the level below.  It's the next challenge 

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