Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Will you change your view of the board if Dean Holden does well?


Recommended Posts

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

  • Like 1
  • Hmmm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Leveller said:

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

Time to get over this I think and class this as not another post on the same subject. Where has the enthusiasm gone with some of you. Get over it and wait and see what happens./

time will tell.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

I’ve answered this on another thread and there was no need to start this one imo as we’re already discussing it. 
don’t think you get the point of why most people are against the board. It’s the lies and bullshit baffles brains mentality . Some fans were unhappy with the board during LJ’s tenure , the contempt  they’ve treated us “customers” lately Has just topped it off 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

We all want Dean Holden to succeed because that means City succeed however the whole shambles over the process cannot and should not be ignored .

Lessons need to be learnt by the board , the guardians of the club. 

I believe that they , in turn, have the best interests of BCFC at heart , time will tell if they were right . 
 

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Hmm, well they’d deserve credit for getting it right. The issue was the setting of expectations and communication - that would still stand regardless how Holden gets on.

nail on head,at least in future now we will know not to bother listening to anything they say

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Leveller said:

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

There is more to running a football club than the appointment of a Manager. My main gripe on that situation was the appalling lack of communication (not going to argue again over that one so if you disagree you disagree). Some people think the new badge is rubbish and just a five year old with a crayon modifying the Brentford design. Some people don't like ticketing arrangements, some people do not like the way the club shop is run, some people think our merchandise is overpriced crap, some people detest the corporate and consumerist language used by Mark Ashton, some people will literally have a gripe about anything that isn't necessarily direct football performance related and will blame the Board for that.

Look at the way the refund situation for last seasons ticket money was handled (the small print and incredibly tight deadline to claim a refund if you wanted one). People will no doubt have an opinion on how this seasons refunds are handled because there will be people who were happy to let them have the relatively small sum of money for games missed after Covid who will not be happy with a half-arsed tv channel feed this season in return for their £500 outlay and no football.

In addition, the amount of speculation emanating from the local journalist does not give you confidence that the people up top have any level of control over any media communications at the moment, quite the opposite, and we now have this absurd detail of the "Chris Hughton Car Crash Interview" playing out here, on Twitter, on Facebook and will presumably end up being covered at more significant media level and probably reflecting badly on the club. The point being, it's not just Dean Holden's appointment they have been judged on.

Personally, I have no trust whatsoever of anyone at Board/Owner level at the football club.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Major Isewater said:

We all want Dean Holden to succeed because that means City succeed however the whole shambles over the process cannot and should not be ignored .

Lessons need to be learnt by the board , the guardians of the club. 

I believe that they , in turn, have the best interests of BCFC at heart , time will tell if they were right . 
 

 

Major,

 Good comments but I would like to know more about your thoughts around “lessons, guardians, etc”

They could of had the plan to keep DH from day 1 and Other factors internal and external from a business perspective around confidential reasons could be the reason why we were left in limbo for 4 to 5 weeks until they could announce it. There could of also been a legal mediation process around LJ,s departure That we would not be aware of.

There were no shambles over the process unless you have inside info you need to share with us.

Of course the board have the best interests of the club at heart as this is part of their income and also a tax deductible item most probably on loss of revenue to games being played behind closed doors. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’ve answered this on another thread and there was no need to start this one imo as we’re already discussing it. 
don’t think you get the point of why most people are against the board. It’s the lies and bullshit baffles brains mentality . Some fans were unhappy with the board during LJ’s tenure , the contempt  they’ve treated us “customers” lately Has just topped it off 

I don’t think it was lies or contempt, it was about the original aspirations of the board, the timing of the appointment and the ever dire financial constraints the World finds itself in post COVID  

Unless you already have a replacement ready to go (i.e. without waiting to see who else might be available / interested) you have to go through a thorough process to get the best person for the job, as follows:-

 

Wk 1 - sack current coach, advertise in appropriate places, wait for applications to flood in from across the World. Tell the fans we have amazing applicants to take us to the next level.

Wk 2 - start discarding the time wasters and chancers BUT also wait until the end of the season to see if any new applicants suddenly become available (Howe etc.).

Wk 3 - interviews for top 10 serious candidates over phone etc as and when people are available due to play offs or holidays. No new to leak to fans.

Wk 4 - short list drawn up. Second and more thorough interviews take place with some candidates taking a reality check on budgets and income streams for the coming season. The board discusses their preferences from candidates coming out of the final interviews - more time taken due to availability of everyone to attend or Skype in. No news for fans as it can only be detrimental to the process and a breach of confidence for those who have been interviewed.

Wk 5 - Decision made!

Selected candidate (on holiday?) offered job with terms and conditions and agrees subject to getting right assistants on board. Very hasty phone calls made, terms and conditions etc discussed before acceptance and agreement from all parties.

Announcement made of the Boards choice.

 

Fans reluctantly accept the new coach, move on, get right behind the team and are over the moon when we get promotion in May 2021 😁.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to admit I was wrong if we're top six at Christmas. I don't care about being "right" I just want what I think is best for them club.

If we were top 6, I'll still have great reservations about the process and won't be able to shake the feeling it will have been more luck than judgement.

I'm aware that might well be unfair.

Edited by IAmNick
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

I support Holden appointment for various reasons. I said I'd be happy with him, though there are some others I'd have appointed above him. But I don't know whether my preferred managers wanted the job or were even suited to the role. Lots we don't know.

So I support the board with that decision.

Time it took? Well i don't get why that is a problem. They obviously had their reasons for it taking weeks.

Lack of communication? Don't get that one either. Only thing the club would ever have said is we are still searching, having interviews etc. Stuff we all knew anyway. If they had announced that to us all then it wouldn't change anything as we already knew it.

Lansdown saying what he said? Well what did he mean exactly. He didn't ever say a proven manager did he? Holden might have completely different views and ways of doing things than LJ. Even his short time as caretaker and now manager suggests that.

Even if Lansdown did mean a proven manager then that might have changed over the weeks of interviews for various reasons. Holden might have been down their list too but by the end they realise he is the best fit for the club. Who knows.

Ashton? Well I think it seems to me he's done a good job overall. I don't care how he speaks. Many were saying what a great job he's doing a year ago. I think our recruitment has actually been good and getting better. We had built a squad whilst losing our best players that should have made top 6. That is Ashton getting the right ones in. LJ failed in not getting the best out of them, or not even playing Benkovic and Henriksen, who he probably fell out with.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

No. 
The board have treated the fans (and Korey Smith) with at best indifference, with their protracted silence in particular. 
The way Koreys departure announcement was ‘rushed through’ after it was already announced by the man himself was a disgrace and an embarrassment. 
This will still be the case even if Holden takes us to the Premiership (which I hope he does btw). 
The board treated us fans like we don’t matter. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leveller said:

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

I think you're forgetting a legitimate position on this... One can oppose the decision even if it was a success.

Let me give you an analogy. I could spend my weekly grocery money in the bookies.

My wife would oppose me gambling our food budget on a horse.

The Horse wins the race and I've tripled the money - a success, and I was right!

But whilst my wife is delighted that she's eating at Casamia that weekend, she's still opposed to my reckless behaviour. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Red DNA said:

I don’t think it was lies or contempt, it was about the original aspirations of the board, the timing of the appointment and the ever dire financial constraints the World finds itself in post COVID  

Unless you already have a replacement ready to go (i.e. without waiting to see who else might be available / interested) you have to go through a thorough process to get the best person for the job, as follows:-

 

Wk 1 - sack current coach, advertise in appropriate places, wait for applications to flood in from across the World. Tell the fans we have amazing applicants to take us to the next level.

Wk 2 - start discarding the time wasters and chancers BUT also wait until the end of the season to see if any new applicants suddenly become available (Howe etc.).

Wk 3 - interviews for top 10 serious candidates over phone etc as and when people are available due to play offs or holidays. No new to leak to fans.

Wk 4 - short list drawn up. Second and more thorough interviews take place with some candidates taking a reality check on budgets and income streams for the coming season. The board discusses their preferences from candidates coming out of the final interviews - more time taken due to availability of everyone to attend or Skype in. No news for fans as it can only be detrimental to the process and a breach of confidence for those who have been interviewed.

Wk 5 - Decision made!

Selected candidate (on holiday?) offered job with terms and conditions and agrees subject to getting right assistants on board. Very hasty phone calls made, terms and conditions etc discussed before acceptance and agreement from all parties.

Announcement made of the Boards choice.

 

Fans reluctantly accept the new coach, move on, get right behind the team and are over the moon when we get promotion in May 2021 😁.

 

 

Red dna, that’s old school crap. When last did you go to an interview. 🤣

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I support Holden appointment for various reasons. I said I'd be happy with him, though there are some others I'd have appointed above him. But I don't know whether my preferred managers wanted the job or were even suited to the role. Lots we don't know.

So I support the board with that decision.

Time it took? Well i don't get why that is a problem. They obviously had their reasons for it taking weeks.

Lack of communication? Don't get that one either. Only thing the club would ever have said is we are still searching, having interviews etc. Stuff we all knew anyway. If they had announced that to us all then it wouldn't change anything as we already knew it.

Lansdown saying what he said? Well what did he mean exactly. He didn't ever say a proven manager did he? Holden might have completely different views and ways of doing things than LJ. Even his short time as caretaker and now manager suggests that.

Even if Lansdown did mean a proven manager then that might have changed over the weeks of interviews for various reasons. Holden might have been down their list too but by the end they realise he is the best fit for the club. Who knows.

Ashton? Well I think it seems to me he's done a good job overall. I don't care how he speaks. Many were saying what a great job he's doing a year ago. I think our recruitment has actually been good and getting better. We had built a squad whilst losing our best players that should have made top 6. That is Ashton getting the right ones in. LJ failed in not getting the best out of them, or not even playing Benkovic and Henriksen, who he probably fell out with.

 

You seem to be giving the board a huge amount of benefit of the doubt in your posts. 

For example, "They obviously had their reasons for it taking weeks"

The reason could be: 

Due process, thorough analysis, external delays such applicant schedule etc

Or

Indecision, sloppy time management, internal disagreement about applicants etc

I don't think there's any evidence to tell us which of these is more likely so I'll be staying agnostic and open-minded.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

No. 
The board have treated the fans (and Korey Smith) with at best indifference, with their protracted silence in particular. 
The way Koreys departure announcement was ‘rushed through’ after it was already announced by the man himself was a disgrace and an embarrassment. 
This will still be the case even if Holden takes us to the Premiership (which I hope he does btw). 
The board treated us fans like we don’t matter. 

Both the club and Korey were gazumped by GregorMacs incorrect "exclusive" and had no choice other than to rush out information. Can't blame the club/board for that imo. Blame GregorMac if anyone.

But I agree that the animosity toward the board doesn't have anything to do with Holden personally, more that the "process" was drawn out too long with absolutely nothing coming out of the club keeping supporters in the dark. That would be fair enough for a couple of weeks but the protracted period they took to arrive at a candidate already employed by the club smacks of being unable to make a clear decision. 

If it were to be Holden, he should have been given the job at least a couple of weeks prior to when he was announced or even straight after LJ was sacked. I think they just couldn't agree or make a decision on the appointment and plumped for the safe option of someone they knew.

Everything after the appointment from the board was, in my opinion, bullshit and I will be wary of anything coming from them in future. To answer the question in the thread title in terms of my opinion of the board - it would make no difference to me if Holden does well (and I am cautiously optimistic on that) or if he bombs, they have a bit of work to do to get people onside imo.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’ve answered this on another thread and there was no need to start this one imo as we’re already discussing it. 
don’t think you get the point of why most people are against the board. It’s the lies and bullshit baffles brains mentality . Some fans were unhappy with the board during LJ’s tenure , the contempt  they’ve treated us “customers” lately Has just topped it off 

To clarify, I think the topic of open mindedness - as opposed to current opinions - is worth debating. It’s a separate issue.

I don’t generally feel I am better qualified than the board to make these decisions, but a lot of people evidently do.

I would have liked a manager with a fantastic track record, but I’ll be interested to see if they are proved right. If they are, I’ll admit it. That doesn’t mean I currently agree with them.

On the other hand, I definitely feel there’s a huge conflict between the two common complaints, ie

”They kept us in the dark”

”They led us to expect something different”.

In my view, they kept the whole process as secret as possible and did very little to fuel all the speculation. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mozo said:

You seem to be giving the board a huge amount of benefit of the doubt in your posts. 

For example, "They obviously had their reasons for it taking weeks"

The reason could be: 

Due process, thorough analysis, external delays such applicant schedule etc

Or

Indecision, sloppy time management, internal disagreement about applicants etc

I don't think there's any evidence to tell us which of these is more likely so I'll be staying agnostic and open-minded.

That's fair enough. 

Yeah I imagine indecision was one as they had a number of interviews. And it seems it took time to realise Holden was the right one for the job.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I support Holden appointment for various reasons. I said I'd be happy with him, though there are some others I'd have appointed above him. But I don't know whether my preferred managers wanted the job or were even suited to the role. Lots we don't know.

So I support the board with that decision.

Time it took? Well i don't get why that is a problem. They obviously had their reasons for it taking weeks.

Lack of communication? Don't get that one either. Only thing the club would ever have said is we are still searching, having interviews etc. Stuff we all knew anyway. If they had announced that to us all then it wouldn't change anything as we already knew it.

Lansdown saying what he said? Well what did he mean exactly. He didn't ever say a proven manager did he? Holden might have completely different views and ways of doing things than LJ. Even his short time as caretaker and now manager suggests that.

Even if Lansdown did mean a proven manager then that might have changed over the weeks of interviews for various reasons. Holden might have been down their list too but by the end they realise he is the best fit for the club. Who knows.

Ashton? Well I think it seems to me he's done a good job overall. I don't care how he speaks. Many were saying what a great job he's doing a year ago. I think our recruitment has actually been good and getting better. We had built a squad whilst losing our best players that should have made top 6. That is Ashton getting the right ones in. LJ failed in not getting the best out of them, or not even playing Benkovic and Henriksen, who he probably fell out with.

 

All good points but I think you fundamentally (perhaps wilfully) are misunderstanding the issues.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, City oz said:

Red dna, that’s old school crap. When last did you go to an interview. 🤣

About 2 weeks ago- and I got the job!

It’s a top secret site near Reading, they told me I’m going to be the Chief of Underground Nuclear Testing - at least that what I think it stood for 🤔

Can’t help being old school at my age 😀

Edited by Red DNA
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Red DNA said:

About 2 weeks ago- and I got the job!

It’s a top secret site near Reading, they told me I’m going to be the Chief of Underground Nuclear Testing - at least that what I think it stood for 🤔

Can’t help being old school at my age 😀

I ran out of laughs and likes 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Leveller said:

To clarify, I think the topic of open mindedness - as opposed to current opinions - is worth debating. It’s a separate issue.

I don’t generally feel I am better qualified than the board to make these decisions, but a lot of people evidently do.

I would have liked a manager with a fantastic track record, but I’ll be interested to see if they are proved right. If they are, I’ll admit it. That doesn’t mean I currently agree with them.

On the other hand, I definitely feel there’s a huge conflict between the two common complaints, ie

”They kept us in the dark”

”They led us to expect something different”.

In my view, they kept the whole process as secret as possible and did very little to fuel all the speculation. 

 

Yes, agree. I’m certainly not qualified to do their job. I also have no problem with the media blackout during the appointment of Holden. As I said earlier , I think it’s been bubbling underneath for a while. The “customer “ statement by Jon Lansdown I think it was who said it , was Ill judged at best . Especially by someone who as a lad was a fan that persuaded his dad to get involved . 
We’re in a era now where football in the stands has gone from the cigarette  smelling , piss filled  toilet , horse burger , violence filled  Old school terrace life which my generation and above are nostalgic about . To the corporate , sit down, shut  up , don’t swear £5 per pint “plastic” atmosphere we get today. You could say we’re treated much better now and you’d be right in some respects  , but. 
 They don’t see us imo as the lifeblood of the club anymore  , which they should do even more so in the covid era. We’re a seat number nothing more and we’re treated as so. It’s the word I used before contempt. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’ve answered this on another thread and there was no need to start this one imo as we’re already discussing it. 
don’t think you get the point of why most people are against the board. It’s the lies and bullshit baffles brains mentality . Some fans were unhappy with the board during LJ’s tenure , the contempt  they’ve treated us “customers” lately Has just topped it off 

 

Yes theyve pissed me off so much having already purchased season ticket that ive had enough after 60 years **** the board an Ashton.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Leveller said:

There are obviously a lot of people who dislike and distrust Mark Ashton and the board as a whole. Many feel they have made the wrong/cheap choice in preferring Dean Holden over bigger names. 

Yet a lot seem also to like Holden and wish him well, while still feeling he was not the best candidate.

I would be interested to know whether people think they will be open minded enough to admit they may have been wrong,  if DH actually does well and, say, we are in the top six by Christmas?

If not, how will you justify your ongoing criticism of the “process” and decision?

Or do you entirely rule out the possibility of DH being a success?

No

Link to post
Share on other sites

No and mostly because of how it was all handled. As for Dean Holden, and this will sound stupid and probably is, even if he does well I won’t be convinced he was the right man for the job on the day he was hired. Maybe you can say that about all first time managers/HCs because none of them are proven.

That said, in DH case, on top of no experience he was part of the last HCs failures. I really hope he does well. I had mentioned when he took charge on an interim basis I thought he was boring and I would struggle to listen to his press conferences/interviews. Still an element to it but he is so far much more likeable than LJ.

So yea the board I am not sure can recover from this in my view. I don’t like how they handled things at all basically saying what they thought fans wanted to hear. Then start putting out feelers to Gregor the idea of Holden and winding up the fans. Just the optics of the whole scenario doesn’t sit right with me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is, for whatever reason, holden currently is the right choice. However the club communicated with us that they were going to push on for the Premier league and the next manager would be able to do that.  Those 2 points completely contradict each other. 

If they had come out after he was sacked and said that during current circumstances it was not viable to spend big wages on a manager and a long term contract becuase of the economy and covid ect... I don't think anyone would have argued or complained.. They may have been dissapointed but I'm sure they would have understood. 

I also don't see many transfers at all happening this season.. Surely its a domino effect that for transfers to happen In higher divisions (bar the prem) then transfers needed to happen in the lower leagues aswell. I just can't see that happening with lower league finances... 

So yes this season may not. Be the most exciting in terms of managers and big signings, however it seems to Me for the first time in a long while that everyone starts equal this year and the title is there for anyone to grab and that is exciting! 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...