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Sam Stanton leaves the club


martnewts

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Just now, Monkeh said:

Good bloke by all accounts I expact we'll miss him,

Those complaining are stuck in the past all modern football clubs use this sort of analylitics its vital to the modern game 

Do they all use it because each other are using it?

Can't honestly say I have seen that much of an improvement in anyones game to warrant it being used

Football is essentially a very simple game, and the best players are those that instinctively know what to do, there has to be a real danger of over complicating things just because "all clubs are using it"

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3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Do they all use it because each other are using it?

Can't honestly say I have seen that much of an improvement in anyones game to warrant it being used

Football is essentially a very simple game, and the best players are those that instinctively know what to do, there has to be a real danger of over complicating things just because "all clubs are using it"

Watch a game from 20 years ago and watch a modern game,

You'll notice the difference in pace passing and speed,

Brentford have been mentioned a few times, they are a club thats got their analytics right, its how they identify their players sign them cheap and sell them for millions,

Its a matter of time before they go up, 

Its the avenue we've gone down and we are about 3 or 4 years behind where brentford are now

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1 hour ago, maxjak said:

Matthew Benham the owner of Brentford and Matchbook Trading has probably made Brentford FC  the Kings of Analytics.  he is referred to as '"Moneyball", a reference to the movie starring Brad Pitt, a true story all about how analytics turned an average baseball team in the USA into serial winners. It is a term which Benham apparently hates.  He has made an artform out of analytics however, and a good living too.  They have an invaluable team of analysts who have contributed through player recruitment and game analysis to the success of the club.    Although these guys have been moved on by City, they will be replaced, as the science of analytics is now a massive part of sport?  Maybe they just want to upgrade the departmemt?  PS. One comment made by the analytics team at City, was........"As footballers have a very short attention span, we make sure the video clips we show them are short and to the point".

Sounds like a job for Big Tone’s condensed version!

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26 minutes ago, phantom said:

Do they all use it because each other are using it?

Can't honestly say I have seen that much of an improvement in anyones game to warrant it being used

Football is essentially a very simple game, and the best players are those that instinctively know what to do, there has to be a real danger of over complicating things just because "all clubs are using it"

What improvement are you looking to see that you might put down to statistical analysis or "over complicating things"?

It's well known that Liverpool used a mathematical model to pick Klopp and also the players he then used for example, and Brentford as mentioned above. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Eliasson v Knockaert thing, well Eliasson got 3rd highest assists last season and still has room to grow- did this despite quite a bit less gametime than Pereira and Wallace.

Would be interesting to see some comparable stats at this level between the two- Eliasson and Knockaert. 2019/20 was perhaps Eliasson's breakout season here.

Thing is, we need to look beyond just assists for Eliasson.  It’s his all-round contribution both attack and defence, on and off the ball that needs evaluation. Some of that is helped by numbers, some of it by watching, sometimes joining that up. 

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There's good article here on their role;

https://thevideoanalyst.com/the-role-of-performance-analysts-in-elite-football-club-settings/

From what I've read it seems it works really well for clubs who have clear identity of what they want and their style of play for example Liverpool, Man City and Brentford. 

Not sure we are clear on our style of play to be honest. Which is probably why a lot of our signings have been a bit hit or miss. 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thing is, we need to look beyond just assists for Eliasson.  It’s his all-round contribution both attack and defence, on and off the ball that needs evaluation. Some of that is helped by numbers, some of it by watching, sometimes joining that up. 

.....and some of it might be helped by having a head coach that picks our team on the basis of the right personal in the right formation and with the right tactics so that we actually play to our strengths, rather then looking to counter the opposition.

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5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Watch a game from 20 years ago and watch a modern game,

You'll notice the difference in pace passing and speed,

Brentford have been mentioned a few times, they are a club thats got their analytics right, its how they identify their players sign them cheap and sell them for millions,

Its a matter of time before they go up, 

Its the avenue we've gone down and we are about 3 or 4 years behind where brentford are now

Of course. But that's nothing to do with an IT team 

Brentford keep getting talked about but never get there. Surely if all these clubs that invested in it more than just Brentford should be up there

4 hours ago, IAmNick said:

What improvement are you looking to see that you might put down to statistical analysis or "over complicating things"?

It's well known that Liverpool used a mathematical model to pick Klopp and also the players he then used for example, and Brentford as mentioned above. 

so one team out of 91 got anything from it last season? 

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4 hours ago, IAmNick said:

What improvement are you looking to see that you might put down to statistical analysis or "over complicating things"?

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

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29 minutes ago, phantom said:

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

The nature of modern football, and in particular the higher up the leagues you go, is that small margins can make a big difference, so I can see that analysis and analysts can and will have an important part to play.

However, I suspect that there is also a danger that it can go from being a means to an end, to becoming an end in itself and this  seemed to manifest itself with LJ, when it sometimes seemed to be a case of paralysis by analysis.

 

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49 minutes ago, phantom said:

so one team out of 91 got anything from it last season? 

What an odd comment. I gave an example, not a list. To use that to imply only one got anything out of it is bizarre.

How can we possibly tell who it benefited? The fact that more and more clubs are doing it now would indicate that they see it as very valuable. The fact the best club in the country currently picked their manager and team with it (amongst other things) would also indicate that.

You said you can't see an improvement in anyone's game to warrant it being used - what exactly are you looking for? It sounds like you've made up your mind regardless to me.

  

46 minutes ago, phantom said:

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

Maybe it's a statement that we didn't use it correctly? If you're trying to imply we now think it's useless and are going to ditch it, I don't think that's right for one minute.

With the Brentford thing I'm not sure what you're looking for. They do it and it's clearly very successful with both their recruitment and on the pitch. The fact they didn't get promoted this year doesn't change that.

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11 hours ago, phantom said:

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

I really think you're underestimating the usage of performance analysis in sport. 

I know, for example, that Millfield School have a performance analyst for their school sports teams. Bath City (of Conference South) have multiple student performance analysts working for them. Hockey Teams also employ them, the whole of county cricket, women volleyball teams, Div 2 UK Ice Hockey teams... the list goes on.

I think you need to appeciate this isn't some sort of psuedo science, and it's actually very simple. It's  the process of assessing performance in a sport to develop an understanding of actions that can inform decision-making and optimise player/athlete performance. Technology has simply increased the amount of metrics available, and also opened it up to so many more sports and teams (due to the fact the majority of it can be done with relatively inexpensive software).

You're very right about football being a simple game, and that's why finding marginal gains can be so effective. 

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19 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Another weird thing to pick fault at.

Not sure what other things you consider I've recently 'weirdly picked fault at', but if you find my comments so frequently bemusing perhaps the answer is to put me on ignore?

That a number posters have agreed with my earlier post must be particularly baffling for you.

 

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12 hours ago, phantom said:

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

You're mixing up recruitment with performance analysis.

 

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13 hours ago, phantom said:

it's no secret LJ got heavily obsessed with stats and figures and clearly no coincidence that many of those who were providing the information no longer work for us

That is a clear statement of intent how it's viewed by us

Yes people can use Brentford as an example but they're still in the same league as us again next season 

Interesting snippits re-analysis from Gregor's recent interview with Adam Webster who obviously feels LJ and the team helped develop his game hugely and analysis seemed to play a key role in that.

It's an important part of the game these days, one every club at our level needs to get right imo.

Interesting getting Webster's view on Deano too.....

image.thumb.png.1a07e2653d979f43897cc98760985f0e.png

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20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Thing is, we need to look beyond just assists for Eliasson.  It’s his all-round contribution both attack and defence, on and off the ball that needs evaluation. Some of that is helped by numbers, some of it by watching, sometimes joining that up. 

True, goals and assists combined might be another area.

He's not the best defensively, he needs more variety in his attacking play- yet every so often he can show flashes. I keep harking back to this game for a variety of reasons but his assist v Leeds on the opening day.

The fact that Lazio who always play a back 3 were purported to be interested in him, also felt significant to me. That they could develop him further I guess would be their plan. Whether that interest remains is less clear, not seen much on it lately.

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47 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Have to admit I’ve never heard of Luke Coles (?) who is our opposition scout?

“Was” our opposition analyst!  Got sacked with Stanton in the summer.

You may recall one of my posts in the past week that questioned who gave Antoine Semenyo the Portsmouth opposition view of being long ball....they were anything but.

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

“Was” our opposition analyst!  Got sacked with Stanton in the summer.

You may recall one of my posts in the past week that questioned who gave Antoine Semenyo the Portsmouth opposition view of being long ball....they were anything but.

The ‘leaving’ of Stanton, Luke Coles & Dave Coles is all fishy as **** to me

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14 hours ago, Lrrr said:

That's concerning.  Southampton are a club we should be emulating.   If they value someone we have moved on, it suggests to me we have messed up. 

The kind of changes we have seen in backroom staff in recent years has been mystifying.  Especially on the medical side where you wonder what the real motivation for change is.

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13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

“Was” our opposition analyst!  Got sacked with Stanton in the summer.

You may recall one of my posts in the past week that questioned who gave Antoine Semenyo the Portsmouth opposition view of being long ball....they were anything but.

What did you say?

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1 hour ago, Red Skin said:

The kind of changes we have seen in backroom staff in recent years has been mystifying.  Especially on the medical side where you wonder what the real motivation for change is.

It MUST be Mark Ashton sorting his mates out with jobs.

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1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

What did you say?

Antoine said in his interview that Pompey were long ball.  From my own viewing I thought that was incorrect.  Sunday proved that they aren’t long ball.

42 minutes ago, DaveF said:

It MUST be Mark Ashton sorting his mates out with jobs.

The analysis that these guys did has been consumed into the team of analysts in Recruitment.  Some similar skill sets, but not a direct match.

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