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Cash flow - your help is required


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9 hours ago, RedRoss said:

So another topic to rehash the damp conversation regarding disappointment at the board and their appointment in Dean.

I know the monotony of lack of transfer rumours,  club content and matches has people pondering their commitment to the cause but I'm sure we've had this same discussion multiple of times in the last couple of weeks construed in different ways but essentially saying the same thing.

You feel let down because in your eyes we didn't take our chance, we didn't get the 'guaranteed' shining savour in CH, SL let us down with his selection of words in that interview and MA is the devil.

Where has JL published that he needs this revenue stream and commitment from the fans to veto their refund? I've looked at his personal twitter, Bristol Post and our own website but can't find this said? (If that does exist my apologies)

If fans want a refund because they aren't getting the product they receive then that's completely fair. I don't think many people are going to offer their season ticket money for the alternative Robins TV that will presented. The obvious choice would be to gain a refund and subscribe separately. Completely fair, I would think the club would appreciate any money at any time but especially during a worldwide pandemic but 'charity starts at home' springs to mind. 

That being said this topic seems like a fan expressing his opinion on his wavering support mainly and another broken record whinge over the appointment of Dean. We really need to put this to bed and move on because I don't know how 30+ years of being a fan can be challenged by one appointment during  a time of austerity caused by a national pandemic.

Surely the apathy of League One only a few years back was the time to quit being a fan compared to the best position the club has been in the last 20 years. If you don't want to support the club that's your issue but I'm fully behind the club including the board, Dean and the players.

 

 

 

I think it’s all relative to the position we’re in.

You can’t ignore the way the club and Lee Johnson ballsed up the last 4 years by never at least making the playoffs a couple of times (i’d still argue we were good to go up in 17/18), by saying ‘but we were in Division 4 in 1982’.

 

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9 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I have never made my support of the club conditional on the choice of manager. See the post from Mr Popodopolous above for guidance.

Not sure who you support is relevant to this. It's simply a question of value for money. If any product I buy is of poor quality and the provider/manufacturer gives inadequate customer service and fails to acknowledge or rectify these faults, then I'd be pretty stupid to carry on buying from them.

Now we're undoubtedly viewed as customers and I personally have no faith in the judgement of the owner, board and management of this club.

Basically I see no reason to believe there is likely to be any noticeable change in the quality of the product I'm buying.

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33 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Not sure who you support is relevant to this. It's simply a question of value for money. If any product I buy is of poor quality and the provider/manufacturer gives inadequate customer service and fails to acknowledge or rectify these faults, then I'd be pretty stupid to carry on buying from them.

Now we're undoubtedly viewed as customers and I personally have no faith in the judgement of the owner, board and management of this club.

Basically I see no reason to believe there is likely to be any noticeable change in the quality of the product I'm buying.

I have always thought that my relationship to the club was a bit special - at least it is for me. The product that we consume is one that you cannot take back if you don't like it - we get to see a competition in each match we watch and cannot foresee the result beforehand. If we could, it would be boring and predicable and some fans may only watch matches they know will be wins.  Life is not like that and in the case of supporting a football club, the key word is support.  We buy shopping from Sainsbury, but it would not bother me in the slightest if we suddenly started using a different supermarket - customers in a true sense because we can switch to a competitor without stress or emotional strife.

Now with a football club, all this is different. Most start supporting in childhood  and become obsessed - often almost totally obsessed, in a way that one could never be in any other "customer" environment. We differentiate by calling ourselves "fans" (shortened from fanatics) or supporters. If we don't like our club shirt, would we simply go and buy a shirt from another club?  The relationship is different and we do often put up with questionable value - but we still are fans and still support.  In terms of our cash relationship with the club, we would all like to see great signings and a top drawer manager - but then some "so called" supporters would withdraw cash support to make all those things more difficult for the club to achieve.

If fans are in financial difficulty we must have every sympathy and I am sure they would wish their situation to be otherwise. They may have to act in a way that they do not like.

It is a strange relationship!

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I want a refund (based on the managerial hunt, who got the job and being lied too at every turn), but I'd consider only having a refund on the games we're not allowed into the stadium.  When fans are allowed back, I'll go back.  I've been through many, many dire seasons before but the 'day out' also includes beers with your mates, a right old moan and maybe the odd happy feeling/celebration.

I am not paying for the Robins TV nonsense.  I know they tried, but Downsy and co was amateurish at best.  I'll climb aboard the VPN airway if I need too.

So, refund game by game and then I'll go back and spend money again when the stadium opens proper.

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33 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I have always thought that my relationship to the club was a bit special - at least it is for me. The product that we consume is one that you cannot take back if you don't like it - we get to see a competition in each match we watch and cannot foresee the result beforehand. If we could, it would be boring and predicable and some fans may only watch matches they know will be wins.  Life is not like that and in the case of supporting a football club, the key word is support.  We buy shopping from Sainsbury, but it would not bother me in the slightest if we suddenly started using a different supermarket - customers in a true sense because we can switch to a competitor without stress or emotional strife.

Now with a football club, all this is different. Most start supporting in childhood  and become obsessed - often almost totally obsessed, in a way that one could never be in any other "customer" environment. We differentiate by calling ourselves "fans" (shortened from fanatics) or supporters. If we don't like our club shirt, would we simply go and buy a shirt from another club?  The relationship is different and we do often put up with questionable value - but we still are fans and still support.  In terms of our cash relationship with the club, we would all like to see great signings and a top drawer manager - but then some "so called" supporters would withdraw cash support to make all those things more difficult for the club to achieve.

If fans are in financial difficulty we must have every sympathy and I am sure they would wish their situation to be otherwise. They may have to act in a way that they do not like.

It is a strange relationship!

It'd be nice if the club treated supporters like supporters instead of customers, and then I'd be inclined to act like one.  It wasn't us fans that changed this relationship, it was the suits.

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8 minutes ago, Nibor said:

It'd be nice if the club treated supporters like supporters instead of customers, and then I'd be inclined to act like one.  It wasn't us fans that changed this relationship, it was the suits.

The poster refers to football as product and uses words like consume. That is a customer environment.

The relationship I have with the FC is one that has seen me move from share holding money raising (82) fan to customer. It was the football club and Mr Lansdown who changed that relationship. 

My product has been poor, the way the service operates is poor. A refund? Yes please.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nibor said:

It'd be nice if the club treated supporters like supporters instead of customers, and then I'd be inclined to act like one.  It wasn't us fans that changed this relationship, it was the suits.

You are obviously more sensitive that I am. I still feel like a fan and a supporter and still get the same kind of buzz from games. I understand that the football industry is very money driven and the numbers are beyond reason, so the club - every club, has to keep pace the best it can.  If this means trying to sell more food/clothing/experiences/ or any other type of goods, then where better to start than your fan base, who will be more minded to buy club products over those of other football clubs.

It is only a small step to use customer management systems because this is what they are designed for - as well as offering better ticketing etc.  The things like BCFCTV ae brave, bold and expensive but I fully support them because as I get old, I can foresee a time when going to games will be too difficult and the guaranteed TV coverage may be the next best option. I see it as a great social benefit.  

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5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The poster refers to football as product and uses words like consume. That is a customer environment.

The relationship I have with the FC is one that has seen me move from share holding money raising (82) fan to customer. It was the football club and Mr Lansdown who changed that relationship. 

My product has been poor, the way the service operates is poor. A refund? Yes please.

 

Shareholding is a more difficult issue because you can see by the amounts invested by SL that many people could not keep pace.  If someone bought £1000 of shares and then was invited to buy more or be diluted at a time when a controlling shareholding would be almost impossible to imagine, the individual may not have access to cash or the desire to sink more money into an investment that was almost guaranteed not to produce a return - unless maybe the club was sold.  The current way that SL owns the club is both kind and logical. Kind because it would be unfair to other shareholders if they were invited, and logical because it allows development and massive investment in a loss making enterprise.

The product will get better more quickly if we support with our enthusiasm and cash. It will go backwards if we withdraw support and our cash.  Totally logical. Our relationship with the club is not totally logical, it is beset with emotions. Funny things emotions!

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39 minutes ago, Nibor said:

It'd be nice if the club treated supporters like supporters instead of customers, and then I'd be inclined to act like one.  It wasn't us fans that changed this relationship, it was the suits.

 

33 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The poster refers to football as product and uses words like consume. That is a customer environment.

The relationship I have with the FC is one that has seen me move from share holding money raising (82) fan to customer. It was the football club and Mr Lansdown who changed that relationship. 

My product has been poor, the way the service operates is poor. A refund? Yes please.

 

Well said.

Cancelled gym membership and obtained refunds for 5 of the 6 season tickets (one kept for Robins TV) in our group for same reason.

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2 hours ago, 054123 said:

I think it’s all relative to the position we’re in.

You can’t ignore the way the club and Lee Johnson ballsed up the last 4 years by never at least making the playoffs a couple of times (i’d still argue we were good to go up in 17/18), by saying ‘but we were in Division 4 in 1982’.

 

See this is where we see things differently. The strides this club has made in the last 4 years is monumental.

We've established ourselves as a proper solid Championship team as opposed to a yo-yo top League One/Lower Championship team, Maximised our revenue streams i.e hospitality, sponsors ect. We received multiple record fees of 20+ million for Webster, 10 for Bobby, 10 for Brownhill and many more (all at a considerable profit) and broke our transfer record with incomings nearly every year. Signed players like Nakhi and Afobe who for years were banging in goals in the Championship and we never previously had a chance in hell of signing. Just shows the change in stature that's been increased in that time. Every year we've improved our league position apart from this one where inevitably LJ got the sack.
 

With all this being said we've come a long way and LJ and the club need to be given some credit. Yes there definitely has been mistakes. Lee probably outstayed his welcome at times with those record losing streaks and even though the league position improved the quality of football declined. Yes there has been the odd Engvall signing that hasn't worked out but in general we've been trading in profit on transfers and adding to the team.

Maybe with a different manager we would have done better but there is no magic wand in football that gets you promoted. The difference is your expectations have changed because of all the aforementioned improvements we've made as a club in the last 4 years.

If you can't see these improvements that's a shame because we're in the best position we've been in since I've been watching City.

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

Shareholding is a more difficult issue because you can see by the amounts invested by SL that many people could not keep pace.  If someone bought £1000 of shares and then was invited to buy more or be diluted at a time when a controlling shareholding would be almost impossible to imagine, the individual may not have access to cash or the desire to sink more money into an investment that was almost guaranteed not to produce a return - unless maybe the club was sold.  The current way that SL owns the club is both kind and logical. Kind because it would be unfair to other shareholders if they were invited, and logical because it allows development and massive investment in a loss making enterprise.

The product will get better more quickly if we support with our enthusiasm and cash. It will go backwards if we withdraw support and our cash.  Totally logical. Our relationship with the club is not totally logical, it is beset with emotions. Funny things emotions!

Football support is logical but it is not even.  Fans support clubs for differing reasons be that to be part of something, to be entertained, to see the team win etc. Intrinsic and extrinsic elements. 

You have referred to football as product again then added psychological factors. That is not even.

Enthusiasm and motivation in humans wanes when they feel they are not valued, not respected, taken for granted. It is a part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The environment affects peoples emotions. Deep musing for a football forum but BCFC and its really only two individuals is not a club in a real sense have taken supporters for granted. Mr Lansdown has been strident in his view its HIS club as fans do not put enough money into HIS club. 

The above relationship puts in place a behaviour that is likely to create enthusiasm for the FC. That is wholly logical.

My relationship with the FC is I AM a consumer. I decided that years ago. This is a product. Product and service poor = refund please. 

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4 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Football support is logical but it is not even.  Fans support clubs for differing reasons be that to be part of something, to be entertained, to see the team win etc. Intrinsic and extrinsic elements. 

You have referred to football as product again then added psychological factors. That is not even.

Enthusiasm and motivation in humans wanes when they feel they are not valued, not respected, taken for granted. It is a part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. The environment affects peoples emotions. Deep musing for a football forum but BCFC and its really only two individuals is not a club in a real sense have taken supporters for granted. Mr Lansdown has been strident in his view its HIS club as fans do not put enough money into HIS club. 

The above relationship puts in place a behaviour that is likely to create enthusiasm for the FC. That is wholly logical.

My relationship with the FC is I AM a consumer. I decided that years ago. This is a product. Product and service poor = refund please. 

Like the Kid, you are much more sensitive that I am. I do not give a flying one who owns or manages the club. I watch the emotional product on the pitch and enjoy the day out. SL has improved that experience and is clearly motivated to improve it yet further.  Anyone who looks for reasons to deny cash to the club cannot reasonably object if the choice of players or manager does not fit with their personal ambitions for the club. The utilitarian test of "what would happen if everyone behaved in this way" could well be applied in this case. The answer may not be helpful for the health of the football club.

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16 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Like the Kid, you are much more sensitive that I am. I do not give a flying one who owns or manages the club. I watch the emotional product on the pitch and enjoy the day out. SL has improved that experience and is clearly motivated to improve it yet further.  Anyone who looks for reasons to deny cash to the club cannot reasonably object if the choice of players or manager does not fit with their personal ambitions for the club. The utilitarian test of "what would happen if everyone behaved in this way" could well be applied in this case. The answer may not be helpful for the health of the football club.

Its a product and you again refer to football as such. 

People have less emotional attachment to products. People do have expectations of what the product should provide. If that product does not meet expectations they move onto other products, ask for refunds .. All logical.

The test would be if more behaved in this way the outcome could be the tiny group of individuals who are BCFC could look at their own actions and improve how their FC operates.  A healthy positive rather than your negative. 

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2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Its a product and you again refer to football as such. 

People have less emotional attachment to products. People do have expectations of what the product should provide. If that product does not meet expectations they move onto other products, ask for refunds .. All logical.

The test would be if more behaved in this way the outcome could be the tiny group of individuals who are BCFC could look at their own actions and improve how it (the FC) operates.  A healthy positive rather than your negative. 

The only way football is a product in the normal sense is when it is discussed with people who have declared themselves to be customers. I have tried to outline that we are NOT quite customers i  the normal way. We could not send the product back if it did not meet our expectations.  Talking of expectations, City are now in a relatively health position compared with many times in previous years - yet still people keep banging on about the product not meeting expectations. You obviously expect a great deal more than I do and if everyone "defunded" the club, you seem to believe that it would be reasonable for everything to keep improving just to please the defunders. Sadly our club has to compete with 24 others in our league and some have parachute payments and all are bound by FFP, which is based, to an extent, upon revenue coming into the club - the very revenue that some on here would seek to reduce to teach the club some kind of half arsed lesson.  Surely you can see the very obvious flaws in the logic and in the expectations of the defunders?

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More than happy to get my money back and sit this season out. I like the day out more than the football, which in recent times has been putrid, so its a hard pass from me. 

The financial hardship argument really grates me as well, new signing today, range rovers and ferraris in the car park ... and its on us to fit the bill ... jog on. 

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3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Talking of expectations, City are now in a relatively health position compared with many times in previous years - yet still people keep banging on about the product not meeting expectations.

I agree with you, but its all about perspective. If you are middle aged, or approaching retirement you grew up watching city when we were bouncing around the 2nd and 3rd tiers. Compared to that the last 5 years have been very good + new stadium etc.

If you are a youngun who started supporting 5 years ago i expect the frustration is high as other teams, allegedly smaller than us have gone up.

Perspective is everything in life

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1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I agree with you, but its all about perspective. If you are middle aged, or approaching retirement you grew up watching city when we were bouncing around the 2nd and 3rd tiers. Compared to that the last 5 years have been very good + new stadium etc.

If you are a youngun who started supporting 5 years ago i expect the frustration is high as other teams, allegedly smaller than us have gone up.

Perspective is everything in life

That is a wise reflection that I had not considered.  Bloody kids, if you told them what it was like, they wouldn't believe you!

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17 hours ago, PFree said:

So, after a prolonged period of non-communication, and following the club appointing a coaching team that few of us wanted - us ‘customers’ were largely ignored.

Now though, as the clubs cash flow is poor due to the impact of the pandemic, it very much needs its ‘FANS’ help. According to JL, it will shortly appeal to all ST holders NOT to request refunds, basically due to reduced crowd numbers, to allow the club to keep the money toward future season tickets etc.

As opposed to a refund, and in support of the clubs needs, I recently opted to take Robins TV recently but, I have to say that after recent events I have no interest in watching City on TV, playing in a sterile stadium with no atmosphere. I hope our form is good, however, the scar of recent events is still far too deep.

You might say support the club through thick and thin etc., (as I have done as a ST holder for the last 30 years or so) but, I am sorry to say my love for what was our club has gradually died since the day SC left. I sincerely hope it returns but when I witness how our club is run and how we as ‘fans’ are lied to and only seem to matter when it suits, sorry, but no thank you.

 

Where have you heard or read this? Have you got a link you can share?

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4 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

More than happy to get my money back and sit this season out. I like the day out more than the football, which in recent times has been putrid, so its a hard pass from me. 

The financial hardship argument really grates me as well, new signing today, range rovers and ferraris in the car park ... and its on us to fit the bill ... jog on. 

The wages of players and some staff are exceptionally high but it is a competitive market and one where we have to compete.  A wage cap would be the sensible solution, but would our stars really still play for only £10k a week?  The players who spend their cash on fancy motor cars and the expensive motor insurance , would do better to consider how they might fare for the rest of their lives if they bought a more modest vehicle and invested the savings. I believe there was a German player (Spurs I believe) who used to drive an old VW Beetle for just that reason. Smart man.

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15 hours ago, weepywall said:

Slightly off topic but has anyone that selected option 3 last season( credit on account) received the credit or any notification of pending credit ? I haven't heard a thing. 

Ditto.

TBH this is probably the option I'd choose again. 

But not hearing a squeak since I selected it, makes me rather nervous.

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2 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

You are obviously more sensitive that I am. I still feel like a fan and a supporter and still get the same kind of buzz from games. I understand that the football industry is very money driven and the numbers are beyond reason, so the club - every club, has to keep pace the best it can.  If this means trying to sell more food/clothing/experiences/ or any other type of goods, then where better to start than your fan base, who will be more minded to buy club products over those of other football clubs.

It is only a small step to use customer management systems because this is what they are designed for - as well as offering better ticketing etc.  The things like BCFCTV ae brave, bold and expensive but I fully support them because as I get old, I can foresee a time when going to games will be too difficult and the guaranteed TV coverage may be the next best option. I see it as a great social benefit.  

Not really anything to do with sensitivity but certainly it's true that some people find corporate stuffed suit environments more engaging than others.  The connection the club used to have with real fans has been slowly waning for a long time, there are plenty of ways to be commercially astute without losing that but it takes the right culture from the top down - something we haven't had since SL took over.

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46 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Not really anything to do with sensitivity but certainly it's true that some people find corporate stuffed suit environments more engaging than others.  The connection the club used to have with real fans has been slowly waning for a long time, there are plenty of ways to be commercially astute without losing that but it takes the right culture from the top down - something we haven't had since SL took over.

I do not mind what people wear because you might expect a multi million £ enterprise to be run by people who wear business dress. This might not fit in with the habits of some of the fans/supporters but I cannot see why that should be a problem. A business suit is a uniform like any other.  The problem with fan connection is that everyone expects something different. I do not understand people taking a dislike to business executives because they look like and talk like business people. Many on here do not have the slightest idea about how business needs to operate and the various financial and technical issues that have to be balanced.  They just seem to want more and more cash spent whilst being highly critical and often downright rude about the people who are supposed to pay.  We have a great stadium, better matchday catering, an improving team and high expectations.  It ain't broke and does not need fixing..... in my humble opinion.

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4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I do not mind what people wear because you might expect a multi million £ enterprise to be run by people who wear business dress. This might not fit in with the habits of some of the fans/supporters but I cannot see why that should be a problem. A business suit is a uniform like any other.  The problem with fan connection is that everyone expects something different. I do not understand people taking a dislike to business executives because they look like and talk like business people. Many on here do not have the slightest idea about how business needs to operate and the various financial and technical issues that have to be balanced.  They just seem to want more and more cash spent whilst being highly critical and often downright rude about the people who are supposed to pay.  We have a great stadium, better matchday catering, an improving team and high expectations.  It ain't broke and does not need fixing..... in my humble opinion.

I don't know if you misunderstand what people are saying or just miss the point on purpose to misrepresent other people's arguments. This is nothing to do with the board of directors dressing in suits - I'm sure you're well aware of that too.

Fans know we need the corporate side of the club to function in a certain way to boost income, people don't quibble that. The issue is that corporate and soulless culture seeping down into all aspects of the club and fans feel they are treated a different way.

A football club isn't the same as a normal business.

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

The wages of players and some staff are exceptionally high but it is a competitive market and one where we have to compete.  A wage cap would be the sensible solution, but would our stars really still play for only £10k a week?  The players who spend their cash on fancy motor cars and the expensive motor insurance , would do better to consider how they might fare for the rest of their lives if they bought a more modest vehicle and invested the savings. I believe there was a German player (Spurs I believe) who used to drive an old VW Beetle for just that reason. Smart man.

"Stars" :laugh: 

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13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't know if you misunderstand what people are saying or just miss the point on purpose to misrepresent other people's arguments. This is nothing to do with the board of directors dressing in suits - I'm sure you're well aware of that too.

Fans know we need the corporate side of the club to function in a certain way to boost income, people don't quibble that. The issue is that corporate and soulless culture seeping down into all aspects of the club and fans feel they are treated a different way.

A football club isn't the same as a normal business.

I fully understand that most people think that a football club is not a normal business but somewhere along the line business disciplines have to be applied.  I am astounded that people seem to disregard the problems and only post about what we should be doing in terms of spending and recruiting. At the end of everything, someone needs to make sure that the bills are paid and that we stay on the financial straight and narrow. As that is SL, people have criticised him, his son and his staff.  Our club used to lurch from financial crisis to financial crisis, it no longer does that.  Maybe a bit of respect for the founder of the feast would not go amiss.  If he cannot please all the people all the time, maybe cut him a little slack - overall he is doing a magnificent job in very difficult circumstances.  It was not me who called them "suits".  

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52 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I do not mind what people wear because you might expect a multi million £ enterprise to be run by people who wear business dress. This might not fit in with the habits of some of the fans/supporters but I cannot see why that should be a problem. A business suit is a uniform like any other.  The problem with fan connection is that everyone expects something different. I do not understand people taking a dislike to business executives because they look like and talk like business people. Many on here do not have the slightest idea about how business needs to operate and the various financial and technical issues that have to be balanced.  They just seem to want more and more cash spent whilst being highly critical and often downright rude about the people who are supposed to pay.  We have a great stadium, better matchday catering, an improving team and high expectations.  It ain't broke and does not need fixing..... in my humble opinion.

"Stuffed suits" is a reference to culture, competence and attitude not garments and actually even the stuffiest businesses have started to realise how pointless the corporate uniform is, even the banks are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 90s.

Anyway it's possible to have a well run football club with commercially astute people working there without sacrificing what makes that special and pissing off fans.  It's possible to communicate well with fans and keep them onside, generally you need people able to empathise with fans instead of people who have no connection, passion or understanding.  Communications worked very well with Adam Baker in charge for example.

Your aspirations for the club are astonishingly low.  You should bear in mind it does not exist to make money, it exists to play football and entertain fans - the commercial necessity exists but it is not the imperative.

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7 minutes ago, Nibor said:

"Stuffed suits" is a reference to culture, competence and attitude not garments and actually even the stuffiest businesses have started to realise how pointless the corporate uniform is, even the banks are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 90s.

Anyway it's possible to have a well run football club with commercially astute people working there without sacrificing what makes that special and pissing off fans.  It's possible to communicate well with fans and keep them onside, generally you need people able to empathise with fans instead of people who have no connection, passion or understanding.  Communications worked very well with Adam Baker in charge for example.

Your aspirations for the club are astonishingly low.  You should bear in mind it does not exist to make money, it exists to play football and entertain fans - the commercial necessity exists but it is not the imperative.

I don't think he necessarily even believes what he posts. He just adopts a contrary position by default and plays devil's advocate. It's quite boring by now. 

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17 hours ago, tin said:

At any other professional club, Holden would have to earn his stripes at a lower level like almost all of his peers to even be considered for a top job at this level. 

Nothing against the bloke and I wish him well, but he shouldn’t be cutting his teeth with us IMO. 

Yeah right, like Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard.  Dean has been a caretaker manager twice, and a deputy for a long time.  Not everyone starts by managing in leagues one or two.  

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14 minutes ago, Nibor said:

"Stuffed suits" is a reference to culture, competence and attitude not garments and actually even the stuffiest businesses have started to realise how pointless the corporate uniform is, even the banks are being dragged kicking and screaming into the 90s.

Anyway it's possible to have a well run football club with commercially astute people working there without sacrificing what makes that special and pissing off fans.  It's possible to communicate well with fans and keep them onside, generally you need people able to empathise with fans instead of people who have no connection, passion or understanding.  Communications worked very well with Adam Baker in charge for example.

Your aspirations for the club are astonishingly low.  You should bear in mind it does not exist to make money, it exists to play football and entertain fans - the commercial necessity exists but it is not the imperative.

Clubs like Bolton ignored the "commercial necessity" - maybe they should have taken it rather more seriously.  As previously mentioned, I have no issues with the communications and feel that some people should concentrate rather more on the football than on the way that the executives speak.  To add to the list of their achievements, the new shirts seem to be rather good.  My aspirations are not astonishingly low, but I recognise that competing against parachute payments within the FFP environment as modified by the pandemic, does impact upon finances and expectations.  We cannot ignore inconvenient facts but have to live in the World as it is - not how we would like it to be.

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34 minutes ago, Nibor said:

 

Your aspirations for the club are astonishingly low.  You should bear in mind it does not exist to make money, it exists to play football and entertain fans - the commercial necessity exists but it is not the imperative.

Yes, the club exists to play football and entertain fans - which it cannot do without their financial and vocal support. To suggest withdrawing that support, just because of a perceived slight by club management, would never cross my mind. I have never had this mysterious " connection to the club" that many seem to worried about losing. My connection is watching the team on the day. That is all I need. I want to see an entertaining and successful team, and I will continue to offer them what financial support I can.

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