Cash flow - your help is required

[tin]

48 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Yeah right, like Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard.  Dean has been a caretaker manager twice, and a deputy for a long time.  Not everyone starts by managing in leagues one or two.  

Again, another bizarre comparison. Gerrard and Lampard played at the highest level, under the best coaches, alongside the best players, racked up hundreds of international caps, won most medals going. That experience means they are not just a hopeful punt. They know what it takes at the top. Holden does not, but whatever suits your agenda. 

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

The only way football is a product in the normal sense is when it is discussed with people who have declared themselves to be customers. I have tried to outline that we are NOT quite customers i  the normal way. We could not send the product back if it did not meet our expectations.  Talking of expectations, City are now in a relatively health position compared with many times in previous years - yet still people keep banging on about the product not meeting expectations. You obviously expect a great deal more than I do and if everyone "defunded" the club, you seem to believe that it would be reasonable for everything to keep improving just to please the defunders. Sadly our club has to compete with 24 others in our league and some have parachute payments and all are bound by FFP, which is based, to an extent, upon revenue coming into the club - the very revenue that some on here would seek to reduce to teach the club some kind of half arsed lesson.  Surely you can see the very obvious flaws in the logic and in the expectations of the defunders?

You again refer to product. 

My expectations are modest.  I do expect those who run BCFC to meet their own set standards.

Posters are constantly referring to the standards the club set, its statements and its process. They got Dean Holden. 

[Bat Fastard]

Just now, Cowshed said:

You again refer to product. 

My expectations are modest.  I do expect those who run BCFC to meet their own set standards.

Posters are constantly referring to the standards the club set, its statements and its process. They got Dean Holden. 

You clearly think Dean Holden is an issue. I do not. He is clearly very well thought of amongst the staff, players and Webster.  Every manage who ever achieved anything started with an opportunity to prove his worth. This is Dean's opportunity and I hope he does very well. By the way, Dean Holden is not the product.  If there is a product it is the entertainment on the pitch and not the bitch about the backroom staff.  Let's wait and see how he does eh?

[WolfOfWestStreet]

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I fully understand that most people think that a football club is not a normal business but somewhere along the line business disciplines have to be applied.  I am astounded that people seem to disregard the problems and only post about what we should be doing in terms of spending and recruiting. At the end of everything, someone needs to make sure that the bills are paid and that we stay on the financial straight and narrow. As that is SL, people have criticised him, his son and his staff.  Our club used to lurch from financial crisis to financial crisis, it no longer does that.  Maybe a bit of respect for the founder of the feast would not go amiss.  If he cannot please all the people all the time, maybe cut him a little slack - overall he is doing a magnificent job in very difficult circumstances.  It was not me who called them "suits".  

If the club showed a bit more compassion and sincerity to its fan base, communicated and kept fans informed of the challenges they are facing and were generally nicer people they'd probably have bought a bit more understanding and patience. 

But they've done none of those things therefore I completely understand why fans might decide to walk away or defer for a season.

[Nibor]

2 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Clubs like Bolton ignored the "commercial necessity" - maybe they should have taken it rather more seriously.  As previously mentioned, I have no issues with the communications and feel that some people should concentrate rather more on the football than on the way that the executives speak.  To add to the list of their achievements, the new shirts seem to be rather good.  My aspirations are not astonishingly low, but I recognise that competing against parachute payments within the FFP environment as modified by the pandemic, does impact upon finances and expectations.  We cannot ignore inconvenient facts but have to live in the World as it is - not how we would like it to be.

What a silly comparison.  Bolton were irresponsible in the extreme, nobody suggested we should do what they did.  Using straw man arguments just underlines the poorly supported position you've decided to take.

Your aspirations are astonishingly low because you accept that it isn't possible to run a successful football club on a sound commercial basis without treating fans like gullible walking wallets.  It is possible, other clubs manage to do a lot more with a lot less investment and a lot less alienation.

[Nibor]

2 hours ago, Fatalist said:

Yes, the club exists to play football and entertain fans - which it cannot do without their financial and vocal support. To suggest withdrawing that support, just because of a perceived slight by club management, would never cross my mind. I have never had this mysterious " connection to the club" that many seem to worried about losing. My connection is watching the team on the day. That is all I need. I want to see an entertaining and successful team, and I will continue to offer them what financial support I can.

I'm suggesting that people who aren't allowed to watch the games they pay for should take a refund and consider any other offer the club makes separately.  In the long run this is the only language the club will understand, they showed with how they handled lockdown and then how they followed up that they aren't capable of taking on board feedback and acting on it reasonably.  If the only thing they see is an income stream then that must be the way fans give them feedback.

[Fatalist]

5 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I'm suggesting that people who aren't allowed to watch the games they pay for should take a refund and consider any other offer the club makes separately.  In the long run this is the only language the club will understand, they showed with how they handled lockdown and then how they followed up that they aren't capable of taking on board feedback and acting on it reasonably.  If the only thing they see is an income stream then that must be the way fans give them feedback.

So you are saying that the club giving everyone their money back, and leaving the club with zero income from matches would be a good thing?

[Bat Fastard]

24 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

If the club showed a bit more compassion and sincerity to its fan base, communicated and kept fans informed of the challenges they are facing and were generally nicer people they'd probably have bought a bit more understanding and patience. 

But they've done none of those things therefore I completely understand why fans might decide to walk away or defer for a season.

It is very very difficult to give outsiders a running commentary on any negotiations without compromising your negotiating positions and confidentiality. How would you like it if you applied for a job and had to endure a public airing of everything before it was announced that you didn't get the job because they thought you were a crap candidate??

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is very very difficult to give outsiders a running commentary on any negotiations without compromising your negotiating positions and confidentiality. How would you like it if you applied for a job and had to endure a public airing of everything before it was announced that you didn't get the job because they thought you were a crap candidate??

Again, you're misrepresenting what people are saying (probably deliberately). No one is asking for a running commentary on negotiations. That wasn't mentioned.

[Bat Fastard]

17 minutes ago, Nibor said:

What a silly comparison.  Bolton were irresponsible in the extreme, nobody suggested we should do what they did.  Using straw man arguments just underlines the poorly supported position you've decided to take.

Your aspirations are astonishingly low because you accept that it isn't possible to run a successful football club on a sound commercial basis without treating fans like gullible walking wallets.  It is possible, other clubs manage to do a lot more with a lot less investment and a lot less alienation.

As I said, you way too sensitive.  Every fan is a potential financial resource to every professional football club.  I do not feel badly treated by the club because some feel that they should have selected a different manager.  I reckon that the board are having to wrestle with some pretty heavyweight issues right now and if they exhibit stressed behaviour, then I fully understand.  I just want to watch the bloody football and not obsess about trivia.

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Again, you're misrepresenting what people are saying (probably deliberately). No one is asking for a running commentary on negotiations. That wasn't mentioned.

Then how do you keep people informed without giving them information?  Keeping them informed with no information would only lead to more mob unrest by people who have nothing better to do with their time. Sometimes in life you have to be a bit patient and await the outcome.

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Then how do you keep people informed without giving them information?  Keeping them informed with no information would only lead to more mob unrest by people who have nothing better to do with their time. Sometimes in life you have to be a bit patient and await the outcome.

@WolfOfWestStreet's post said nothing about managerial negotiations - you've wrongfully assumed that's what he meant. He meant communication in general. Since Adam Baker left that aspect of the club has become very poor.

[Nibor]

15 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

As I said, you way too sensitive.  Every fan is a potential financial resource to every professional football club.  I do not feel badly treated by the club because some feel that they should have selected a different manager.  I reckon that the board are having to wrestle with some pretty heavyweight issues right now and if they exhibit stressed behaviour, then I fully understand.  I just want to watch the bloody football and not obsess about trivia.

If we're going to indulge in armchair analysis I think it's more likely that you feel an affinity with the stuffed suits and can't abide even constructive criticism of those you identify with.

[Bat Fastard]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

@WolfOfWestStreet's post said nothing about managerial negotiations - you've wrongfully assumed that's what he meant. He meant communication in general. Since Adam Baker left that aspect of the club has become very poor.

I have been running in and out doing loads of other things and may have got peoples messages mixed up. Others on here have been saying stuff like they were not kept informed. I guess these are the same people who want to deprive the club of income in one way or another whilst demanding that we spend on more expensive players, managers etc etc.  _ Form my part, I do not think there is a shortage of information that causes me any distress. I do not feel that I am being used as a cash cow by the club. I like watching football and do not really care about what happens behind the scenes because there is bugger all I can do about it anyway.  It is impossible to know whether you agree or disagree about decisions unless you know every aspect of the case you are meant to be deciding.  We can never know, just make stuff up and argue about it. Ho hum.  Some people even manage to be rude in the process.  I wish the season would start in earnest so we can talk about something interesting - like football.

[Bat Fastard]

5 minutes ago, Nibor said:

If we're going to indulge in armchair analysis I think it's more likely that you feel an affinity with the stuffed suits and can't abide even constructive criticism of those you identify with.

I once had to swear to keep a negotiation secret and this upset a lot of people who thought that I should have "spilled the beans". The eventual negotiation saved a lot of people a great deal of distress.  I know that in the real world, things are not always easy, convenient or trouble free. Acting with integrity is not always the easy option, so yes, I understand the kind of things that might be concerning the board, some of whom wear suits from time to time.  Constructive criticism that cannot be based on all the evidence can hardly be constructive.  I have heard very little constructive criticism on here. There have been made up character assassinations that become part of the fact base and then people making up what the traduced executives are meant to have thought or done - again mostly made up and/or wilfully misinterpreted to make uninformed points. People have joyfully said that they won't go to matches again because we didn't appoint the manager that they wanted and then made up all sorts of stuff about board members to justify their action.  Some of the critics joyfully wallow in the fact that they haven't been to matches for years!  People have enthusiastically entertained all ideas of depriving their club of income as a way of punishing them, and then said that we should be spending more on managers/players or whatever.  I wonder about the motivation of people who seem to spend their whole lives on the forum.  I just want to get back to watching and enjoying days at the football.  

[Nibor]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

I once had to swear to keep a negotiation secret and this upset a lot of people who thought that I should have "spilled the beans". The eventual negotiation saved a lot of people a great deal of distress.  I know that in the real world, things are not always easy, convenient or trouble free. Acting with integrity is not always the easy option, so yes, I understand the kind of things that might be concerning the board, some of whom wear suits from time to time.  Constructive criticism that cannot be based on all the evidence can hardly be constructive.  I have heard very little constructive criticism on here. There have been made up character assassinations that become part of the fact base and then people making up what the traduced executives are meant to have thought or done - again mostly made up and/or wilfully misinterpreted to make uninformed points. People have joyfully said that they won't go to matches again because we didn't appoint the manager that they wanted and then made up all sorts of stuff about board members to justify their action.  Some of the critics joyfully wallow in the fact that they haven't been to matches for years!  People have enthusiastically entertained all ideas of depriving their club of income as a way of punishing them, and then said that we should be spending more on managers/players or whatever.  I wonder about the motivation of people who seem to spend their whole lives on the forum.  I just want to get back to watching and enjoying days at the football.  

Constructive criticism is pretty straightforward really.  You simply explain what should be done instead.

When dealing with the lockdown they should have put refunds front and centre - "of course you are entitled to one, here's how we will calculate it, here's how you get it.  That being said it would be really helpful to the club if you instead opted for the TV".  That would have got better results financially and goodwill.  Easy peasy, boardroom secrets and self important cloak and dagger negotiations are irrelevant as are fantasies about character assassinations and fictitious straw man arguments.

[Bat Fastard]

10 minutes ago, Nibor said:

Constructive criticism is pretty straightforward really.  You simply explain what should be done instead.

When dealing with the lockdown they should have put refunds front and centre - "of course you are entitled to one, here's how we will calculate it, here's how you get it.  That being said it would be really helpful to the club if you instead opted for the TV".  That would have got better results financially and goodwill.  Easy peasy, boardroom secrets and self important cloak and dagger negotiations are irrelevant as are fantasies about character assassinations and fictitious straw man arguments.

Constructive criticism in the context of the choice of manager is what I was mainly talking about.  No knowledge of the issues discussed in board meetings and interviews means that there can be no constructive criticism - just made up crap.

I was not aware that the club have yet announced the rules for attending matches this coming season.  Sorry if I have missed this. Personally, I look for reasons to spend cash with the club and would not take a refund on my season tickets if it meant having to move and maybe sit with a different bunch of people. I like the folks in my part of the Dolman and look forward to seeing them again when the pandemic is over.  I am clearly not as sensitive as you on any of these issues.  I do have sympathy for the financial position of the club and the financial position of those impacted by Covid19. It is a difficult tension and I hope that those who are able to go on supporting the club do so to the best of their ability. I would like to see us emerge from this as strong as possible so we can push onwards and upwards. 

[Nibor]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

Constructive criticism in the context of the choice of manager is what I was mainly talking about.  No knowledge of the issues discussed in board meetings and interviews means that there can be no constructive criticism - just made up crap.

I was not aware that the club have yet announced the rules for attending matches this coming season.  Sorry if I have missed this. Personally, I look for reasons to spend cash with the club and would not take a refund on my season tickets if it meant having to move and maybe sit with a different bunch of people. I like the folks in my part of the Dolman and look forward to seeing them again when the pandemic is over.  I am clearly not as sensitive as you on any of these issues.  I do have sympathy for the financial position of the club and the financial position of those impacted by Covid19. It is a difficult tension and I hope that those who are able to go on supporting the club do so to the best of their ability. I would like to see us emerge from this as strong as possible so we can push onwards and upwards. 

I don't think I've mentioned the choice of manager in this context so not sure what that's about.

I'm talking about the way they handled this last time round as mentioned more than once, and the criticisms I made at the time were constructive.

You can throw around the thinly veiled insult about sensitivity but what you've demonstrated again here is that you're hyper sensitive to any criticism of what you perceive as "business people" irrespective of whether it's constructive and soundly reasoned.

I support the football team.  I praise the club where it does things well and criticise constructively where it doesn't.  You seem not to be able to pick out the difference and instead naively assume that people have secret reasons they can't tell us about for doing things poorly.  It's unlikely in the extreme.

[Bat Fastard]

4 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I don't think I've mentioned the choice of manager in this context so not sure what that's about.

I'm talking about the way they handled this last time round as mentioned more than once, and the criticisms I made at the time were constructive.

You can throw around the thinly veiled insult about sensitivity but what you've demonstrated again here is that you're hyper sensitive to any criticism of what you perceive as "business people" irrespective of whether it's constructive and soundly reasoned.

I support the football team.  I praise the club where it does things well and criticise constructively where it doesn't.  You seem not to be able to pick out the difference and instead naively assume that people have secret reasons they can't tell us about for doing things poorly.  It's unlikely in the extreme.

This is all getting a bit sterile and samey. I don't get exercised by "the suits" you do. We are VERY different kinds of people. I have to go and see to my poultry so I wish you joy of the evening.

[Fatalist]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

As I said, you way too sensitive.  Every fan is a potential financial resource to every professional football club.  I do not feel badly treated by the club because some feel that they should have selected a different manager.  I reckon that the board are having to wrestle with some pretty heavyweight issues right now and if they exhibit stressed behaviour, then I fully understand.  I just want to watch the bloody football and not obsess about trivia.

Hear hear!

[Sir Geoff]

As far as I am concerened if they can afford a new player and give him a 4 year contract (15k a week ?? gueessing) then they can afford to refund my Season Ticket money.  However I will be quite happy for them to roll it over to next season.

[Numero Uno]

28 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

As far as I am concerened if they can afford a new player and give him a 4 year contract (15k a week ?? gueessing) then they can afford to refund my Season Ticket money.  However I will be quite happy for them to roll it over to next season.

Agreed. If there is a roll over option I would take that. Will make the 2021-22 season ticket pretty cheap unless they put them up to £950

[RobintheRed Red]

On 19/08/2020 at 21:50, reddoc said:

Actually nothing to do with that, but take your point. Wouldn't miss the money and could have refunded two of my 3 season tickets and still watched the games , but decided I'd let the club keep it. Appoint Holden, I'm out. Not quite that gullible I'm afraid.

Oh god this bloke will be after you the franchise can do no wrong

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

As far as I am concerened if they can afford a new player and give him a 4 year contract (15k a week ?? gueessing) then they can afford to refund my Season Ticket money.  However I will be quite happy for them to roll it over to next season.

Or perhaps it’s your season ticket money which has helped pay for the new player!  
 

I do agree with the comment above that comms have been rubbish since Adam Baker left.  The website front page remains unchanged for days, which seems just lazy to me, and the reliance on news of the Womens team to maintain a facade of current news seems a little misguided (no disrespect to them, but I’m not convinced that the women’s team quite merits equal prominence).

[RobintheRed Red]

11 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

More than happy to get my money back and sit this season out. I like the day out more than the football, which in recent times has been putrid, so its a hard pass from me. 

The financial hardship argument really grates me as well, new signing today, range rovers and ferraris in the car park ... and its on us to fit the bill ... jog on. 

great and true post

[BrizzleRed]

20 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Like the Kid, you are much more sensitive that I am. I do not give a flying one who owns or manages the club. I watch the emotional product on the pitch and enjoy the day out. SL has improved that experience and is clearly motivated to improve it yet further.  Anyone who looks for reasons to deny cash to the club cannot reasonably object if the choice of players or manager does not fit with their personal ambitions for the club. The utilitarian test of "what would happen if everyone behaved in this way" could well be applied in this case. The answer may not be helpful for the health of the football club.

Depending on the personal point of view of any particular supporter, you are either very lucky, or very unfortunate in your unconditional support for the club Bat.

People have been talking about the massive improvements the club have made in various areas, which they undoubtedly have.  One area they appear to be massively underachieving though, is their communication and engagement with the fanbase, probably in part due to dumping people like Adam Baker, who clearly had a real connection and empathy with the supporters.

It seems this either completely goes over your head, or your level of devotion means you are quite happy to overlook this, but I. suspect you are in a small minority.

I personally think the club are making a total mess of bringing the fans onboard through this covid crisis.  They have pissed off a lot of fans and are maybe making the mistake of believing that all fans are going to accept everything as you do, but that could prove to be a very costly mistake for them to make.

If the club does get hit particularly hard financially due to covid, the cause isn’t the fans being disloyal, it’s the club taking them completely for granted and for that, they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

[Bat Fastard]

50 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Depending on the personal point of view of any particular supporter, you are either very lucky, or very unfortunate in your unconditional support for the club Bat.

People have been talking about the massive improvements the club have made in various areas, which they undoubtedly have.  One area they appear to be massively underachieving though, is their communication and engagement with the fanbase, probably in part due to dumping people like Adam Baker, who clearly had a real connection and empathy with the supporters.

It seems this either completely goes over your head, or your level of devotion means you are quite happy to overlook this, but I. suspect you are in a small minority.

I personally think the club are making a total mess of bringing the fans onboard through this covid crisis.  They have pissed off a lot of fans and are maybe making the mistake of believing that all fans are going to accept everything as you do, but that could prove to be a very costly mistake for them to make.

If the club does get hit particularly hard financially due to covid, the cause isn’t the fans being disloyal, it’s the club taking them completely for granted and for that, they have nobody else to blame but themselves.

I think you don't quite understand this business of "unconditional support" - so let me try to explain. 

For more than 50 years, Bristol City has been a central plank in my life. It provides something to think about - often many times a day. It provides huge interest and the anticipation and attending games is, for me the highpoint.  I cheer the boys on the pitch and enjoy the banter, singing and everything else that goes with being a Bristol City supporter.  Having enjoyed the East End when I was a young boy, I have to say that the pleasure was probably even more intense then. I used to be able to remember every team, goal time and many other details.  It is different now.  It is more mellow like everything else as you get older but it still fills me with enthusiasm.  It helps that I am a naturally enthusiastic person, family, business, our green lifestyle and Bristol City are the driving forces.  I could change any one of these, but feel that life would be poorer for making such a choice.

I have long accepted that I have no influence in the decision making at Bristol City and I am happy to accept what is handed down simply because of this lack of influence. If we had influence, then there would be so many different opinions that it would be impossible to make progress. I have an almost spiritual distrust of "the mob" - because the one thing that that they all have in common is that they are not in command of the facts that drive decisions - so it is easy for them to foment further unrest and eventually we have people being unhappy as they are now. I am not unhappy because I believe that the board will have been in command of all the facts and tried their utmost to make the best decisions for the club.  Clearly people on this forum have made up an awful lot of pretty poisonous rubbish and repeated it often enough for it to not be challenged. This is not helpful and more of a comment on the lack of wisdom of the mob than on the behaviour of those that lead our club. Of course the mob would not see it that way.

Covid is a very unusual crisis because the directors can only struggle to make decisions when everything keeps changing as the disease spreads and clusters appear. They might proceed on a course of action only to be told that this is no longer viable. The mob will have no sympathy for this difficulty but will simply ascribe their false and often fictional narratives to what they think they see.  Having run a very successful business for many years I know that life is sometimes difficult and I have never met a director who does not try to do the best for his or her business. So I have faith in the directors more than the mob. The mob can ignore things that don't suit their mood, covid, FFP, lack of revenue and all the rest. Directors cannot and have strict rules that govern how they run a business. The mob have no strict rules apart from anything that they can make up goes.  They do not seem to accept that they are not in the best position to decide anything. They spout some ridiculous things with all the confidence of ignorance. That is why I support the board.

As for communications and many other aspects, they are works in progress and I am sure that everyone in the club is trying to polish and improve every aspect of their offering to fans. We have just had new shirts which seem pretty good - but I am sure there will be some who will be offended by something like style, shape, shade of colour or something else. It is all trivia as far as I am concerned and I do not feel disrespected by the club and I am indulgent because at the end of the day, I am a Bristol City fan and accept everything that that entails. We are all frustrated by Covid and all the crap that goes along with that and I, for one, cannot wait to get vaccinated and get back to a more normal life.

[BrizzleRed]

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think you don't quite understand this business of "unconditional support" - so let me try to explain. 

For more than 50 years, Bristol City has been a central plank in my life. It provides something to think about - often many times a day. It provides huge interest and the anticipation and attending games is, for me the highpoint.  I cheer the boys on the pitch and enjoy the banter, singing and everything else that goes with being a Bristol City supporter.  Having enjoyed the East End when I was a young boy, I have to say that the pleasure was probably even more intense then. I used to be able to remember every team, goal time and many other details.  It is different now.  It is more mellow like everything else as you get older but it still fills me with enthusiasm.  It helps that I am a naturally enthusiastic person, family, business, our green lifestyle and Bristol City are the driving forces.  I could change any one of these, but feel that life would be poorer for making such a choice.

I have long accepted that I have no influence in the decision making at Bristol City and I am happy to accept what is handed down simply because of this lack of influence. If we had influence, then there would be so many different opinions that it would be impossible to make progress. I have an almost spiritual distrust of "the mob" - because the one thing that that they all have in common is that they are not in command of the facts that drive decisions - so it is easy for them to foment further unrest and eventually we have people being unhappy as they are now. I am not unhappy because I believe that the board will have been in command of all the facts and tried their utmost to make the best decisions for the club.  Clearly people on this forum have made up an awful lot of pretty poisonous rubbish and repeated it often enough for it to not be challenged. This is not helpful and more of a comment on the lack of wisdom of the mob than on the behaviour of those that lead our club. Of course the mob would not see it that way.

Covid is a very unusual crisis because the directors can only struggle to make decisions when everything keeps changing as the disease spreads and clusters appear. They might proceed on a course of action only to be told that this is no longer viable. The mob will have no sympathy for this difficulty but will simply ascribe their false and often fictional narratives to what they think they see.  Having run a very successful business for many years I know that life is sometimes difficult and I have never met a director who does not try to do the best for his or her business. So I have faith in the directors more than the mob. The mob can ignore things that don't suit their mood, covid, FFP, lack of revenue and all the rest. Directors cannot and have strict rules that govern how they run a business. The mob have no strict rules apart from anything that they can make up goes.  They do not seem to accept that they are not in the best position to decide anything. They spout some ridiculous things with all the confidence of ignorance. That is why I support the board.

As for communications and many other aspects, they are works in progress and I am sure that everyone in the club is trying to polish and improve every aspect of their offering to fans. We have just had new shirts which seem pretty good - but I am sure there will be some who will be offended by something like style, shape, shade of colour or something else. It is all trivia as far as I am concerned and I do not feel disrespected by the club and I am indulgent because at the end of the day, I am a Bristol City fan and accept everything that that entails. We are all frustrated by Covid and all the crap that goes along with that and I, for one, cannot wait to get vaccinated and get back to a more normal life.

Sorry but referring to anyone who doesn’t blindly follow whatever the club wants you believe as ‘the mob’, really doesn’t do you any credit whatsoever my friend!

I certainly do understand understand what the unconditional support business means, but usually, as you get older and hopefully wiser, that usually tends to lesson as you’ve heard all the bullshit before.

The fact we can’t change anything the. Lub chooses to fo, or how they do it, doesn’t make it any more palatable.  20,000+ Bat Fastard’s would be an absolute dream ticket for the club, but it just isn’t going to happen.  

They need to start giving some consideration to other mainstraem fans who’ve shown their commitment by buying season tickets and are getting bugger all back and the club don’t even bother to communicate with them!

[Bat Fastard]

6 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Sorry but referring to anyone who doesn’t blindly follow whatever the club wants you believe as ‘the mob’, really doesn’t do you any credit whatsoever my friend!

I certainly do understand understand what the unconditional support business means, but usually, as you get older and hopefully wiser, that usually tends to lesson as you’ve heard all the bullshit before.

The fact we can’t change anything the. Lub chooses to fo, or how they do it, doesn’t make it any more palatable.  20,000+ Bat Fastard’s would be an absolute dream ticket for the club, but it just isn’t going to happen.  

They need to start giving some consideration to other mainstraem fans who’ve shown their commitment by buying season tickets and are getting bugger all back and the club don’t even bother to communicate with them!

Using the term "blindly" and ignoring the stuff that I wrote about the mob seems to classify you as "one of them".  I am happy with the stunning progress that the club has made and I go back to the time before the Dolman Stand was built.  All the grumblers and protesters and people who seem to feel affronted at every decision they do not understand frankly cheeses me off.  They are virtually guaranteed to not know what they are talking about but the mob seem to ignore all that. 

20,000 Bat Fastards would not be a dream for City because I am an old git and will be dead in a few years time.  They need young people with families to keep regenerating the fanbase. The problem is, as someone else pointed out, the younger fans did not know what it was like in the old days and take everything for granted.  I feel that the club are trying very hard on all fronts and that the mob will not be appeased whatever they do.  If someone like me says things about the mob that are only 10% as vitriolic as some on here refer to the board and management, they get quite uppity.  They certainly don' like it up 'em.  One rule for the mob and another for everyone else. Such is life. But I still respect the board a great deal more than I respect the mob - for all the reasons previously adumbrated.

[BrizzleRed]

20 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Using the term "blindly" and ignoring the stuff that I wrote about the mob seems to classify you as "one of them".  I am happy with the stunning progress that the club has made and I go back to the time before the Dolman Stand was built.  All the grumblers and protesters and people who seem to feel affronted at every decision they do not understand frankly cheeses me off.  They are virtually guaranteed to not know what they are talking about but the mob seem to ignore all that. 

20,000 Bat Fastards would not be a dream for City because I am an old git and will be dead in a few years time.  They need young people with families to keep regenerating the fanbase. The problem is, as someone else pointed out, the younger fans did not know what it was like in the old days and take everything for granted.  I feel that the club are trying very hard on all fronts and that the mob will not be appeased whatever they do.  If someone like me says things about the mob that are only 10% as vitriolic as some on here refer to the board and management, they get quite uppity.  They certainly don' like it up 'em.  One rule for the mob and another for everyone else. Such is life. But I still respect the board a great deal more than I respect the mob - for all the reasons previously adumbrated.

‘Blindly’ in my book can certainly be used as, in spite of seeing the issues, you’ll still carry on accepting any treatment they dish out because ‘you can’t do anything about it’.

The club needs to be held accountable and questioned when needed, but you’ve made it clear that isn’t your view or desire.  That’s your choice, just as it is for others, who feel the need to ask why the club are so piss poor at respecting fans who’ve paid good money for next season’s ST and yet still don’t have a clue what’s going to happen.  

A simple email update would be very handy but we get absolutely nothing.  I don’t give a shit about the new kit, but we get loads about that.  It feels like they’ve had our ST money now, so let’s put those mugs at the back of the queue and concentrate on selling some shirts now

I really can’t see complaining about stuff like that makes you a member of ‘the mob’ though.