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Cash flow - your help is required


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15 minutes ago, westonred said:

Yes when things are back to normal but i'm not going to pay £500+ to watch it on TV when i can fly VPN airways for £90 a year

...and that’s what a number of people will do.

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20 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Anyone with a dolman seat will need to watch on an upstairs tv and slowly make their way downstairs about 10 minutes from time. Maybe with the dog blocking their way.

And put their head in a bucket to replicate the tannoy 

 

Edited by Odd socks
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I think the club should have a bigger choice of offers this time. 

Daft idea I know but may be ask for some fan feedback of what they'd like. They're obviously desperate to keep as much money as possible.

So as well as last season's offerings maybe offers including a mixture of RTV, a home/away shirt, a merchandise voucher a food/drink voucher (both offering good value of course, match tickets to bring friends, part refunds, a match in the Heineken lounge, a romantic meal with Han-Noah, the list is never ending

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59 minutes ago, Red DNA said:

I don’t think it was outright lies, as discussed on many other threads the aspiration of the board was to appoint a big name to take us forward but sometime during the process a reality check kicked in (hence today’s request by JL to not request refunds) and the budgets the club was able to offer the candidates was nowhere near what they would all have normally expected and be given. 
 

At the end of the process they had no one willing to take the club ‘forward’ with the new post COVID budget except for Dean who obviously jumped at the chance. 

I suspect many other clubs are also going through the same reality check?

Best of luck to Dean and then team, I’ll be there as much as I can to support the club. 

Yes we wanted a name ie Chris Hughton to take the club forward but for whatever reason (we can speculate but will we ever really know) so let’s get behind Dean. Bayern  Munich aren’t doing too badly having appointed an assistant as Manager are they?

Edited by E.G.Red
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5 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I think the club should have a bigger choice of offers this time. 

Daft idea I know but may be ask for some fan feedback of what they'd like. They're obviously desperate to keep as much money as possible.

So as well as last season's offerings maybe offers including a mixture of RTV, a home/away shirt, a merchandise voucher a food/drink voucher (both offering good value of course, match tickets to bring friends, part refunds, a match in the Heineken lounge, a romantic meal with Han-Noah, the list is never ending

Food vouchers, eh...

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I’m just incredibly bored with it at the moment. We were promised a mega super Exciting appointment by SL and we got Holden, it was a real opportunity to bring the buzz back. There’s been nothing since to attract my attention. 

I hope something happens soon. 

I suggest you look at what Webster said about Dean Holden - clearly he is a fan and can see his potential.  I hope he surprises us all and shocks you!!

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22 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Yes we wanted a name ie Chris Hughton to take the club forward but for whatever reason (we can speculate but will we ever really know) so let’s get behind Dean. Bayern  Munich aren’t doing too badly having appointed an assistant as Manager are they?

Bayern’s current manager had nine years’ managerial experience under his belt, plus eight years as assistant with Germany - including when they last won the World Cup in 2014. To compare him with Holden is ridiculous. 

Edited by tin
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6 minutes ago, tin said:

Bayern’s current manager had nine years’ managerial experience under his belt, plus eight years as assistant with Germany - including when they last won the World Cup in 2014. To compare him with Holden is ridiculous. 

Maybe Bayern wasn’t the best example, I was just pointing out that there are plenty of teams that have gone with assistants. Unless you give the guy a chance how is he going to get the experience?

Edited by E.G.Red
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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Even the daily training video updates have started to drop off.  Several minutes last week, 50 seconds yesterday.  Unless there is someone at the training ground (or someone not there) they don’t want us to see.

I get that they are all busy, but there’s content that would keep the fan base going.

True - and it’s actually something the media team is good at. Round pegs in round holes etc - they should play to their strengths and focus on video content.

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1 minute ago, E.G.Red said:

Maybe Bayern wasn’t the best example, I was just pointing out that there are plenty of teams that have gone with assistants. Unless you give the guy a chance how is he going to get the experience?

And there are plenty of teams who’ve gone with assistants who’ve failed horribly. Look at our track record. 

I really hope Holden does well, but after the way the club handled it it’s obviously a disappointing appointment for many people.

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6 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Maybe Bayern wasn’t the best example, I was just pointing out that there are plenty of teams that have gone with assistants. Unless you give the guy a chance how is he going to get the experience?

At any other professional club, Holden would have to earn his stripes at a lower level like almost all of his peers to even be considered for a top job at this level. 

Nothing against the bloke and I wish him well, but he shouldn’t be cutting his teeth with us IMO. 

Edited by tin
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17 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I suggest you look at what Webster said about Dean Holden - clearly he is a fan and can see his potential.  I hope he surprises us all and shocks you!!

Hope he's right but I'm not gonna lose the best part of a grand finding out he wasn't . Having been daft enough to give the club the value of 3 season cards for the last few games of the season, I've regained my sanity and will take the refund.

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28 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Food vouchers, eh...

Ha! Why stop there, we've no home shirt, no away shirt, will soon run out of popular sizes when we do, the club shop is useless and Han-Noah would probably take you to Burger King

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1 minute ago, reddoc said:

Hope he's right but I'm not gonna lose the best part of a grand finding out he wasn't . Having been daft enough to give the club the value of 3 season cards for the last few games of the season, I've regained my sanity and will take the refund.

As I’m sure the majority of fans have. I gave my ‘refund’ to the youth team, but this time I would be looking for a refund.

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3 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Hope he's right but I'm not gonna lose the best part of a grand finding out he wasn't . Having been daft enough to give the club the value of 3 season cards for the last few games of the season, I've regained my sanity and will take the refund.

I only have two tickets but I am happy to not ask for a refund because if everyone did that it may put the club in further financial difficulty. I understand that this is more dificult for some fans and that I am fortunate to be retired and not worried about losing a job.  We live in difficult times - for fans and for the club.

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Putting aside the season ticket refund option aspect, the VPN option will no doubt be tempting to many, I think a lot of people perhaps need a reality check as to just how hard football could be hit by Covid...

Remember it is not only ST refunds, it is matchday tickets too both sales and refund wise for any who had got tickets post the suspension of the season, it is matchday revenue- yes there will be cost savings from matchday staff but I suspect that will be a net loss in terms of savings on catering staff vs catering sales eg.

There is the Fanzone, the club shop, the Sports Bar. All of it. 

There is the small rebate to Sky that the EFL will have to do, there is the fact that the solidarity payments were advanced, an advance now means a bit less in the future.

The players took a deferral but deferrals still need to be paid back. Furlough may save a bit, but the cost of deferrals being repaid eat into budget a bit more.

There is non matchday activity ie events, concerts. Ashton Gate Limited is where that revenue goes but Bristol City Holdings contains the bulk of the revenue for Ashton Gate Limited.

The Hughton or similar appointment in summer 2020, it just ain't feasible!!

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1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I only have two tickets but I am happy to not ask for a refund because if everyone did that it may put the club in further financial difficulty. I understand that this is more dificult for some fans and that I am fortunate to be retired and not worried about losing a job.  We live in difficult times - for fans and for the club.

Actually nothing to do with that, but take your point. Wouldn't miss the money and could have refunded two of my 3 season tickets and still watched the games , but decided I'd let the club keep it. Appoint Holden, I'm out. Not quite that gullible I'm afraid.

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So another topic to rehash the damp conversation regarding disappointment at the board and their appointment in Dean.

I know the monotony of lack of transfer rumours,  club content and matches has people pondering their commitment to the cause but I'm sure we've had this same discussion multiple of times in the last couple of weeks construed in different ways but essentially saying the same thing.

You feel let down because in your eyes we didn't take our chance, we didn't get the 'guaranteed' shining savour in CH, SL let us down with his selection of words in that interview and MA is the devil.

Where has JL published that he needs this revenue stream and commitment from the fans to veto their refund? I've looked at his personal twitter, Bristol Post and our own website but can't find this said? (If that does exist my apologies)

If fans want a refund because they aren't getting the product they receive then that's completely fair. I don't think many people are going to offer their season ticket money for the alternative Robins TV that will presented. The obvious choice would be to gain a refund and subscribe separately. Completely fair, I would think the club would appreciate any money at any time but especially during a worldwide pandemic but 'charity starts at home' springs to mind. 

That being said this topic seems like a fan expressing his opinion on his wavering support mainly and another broken record whinge over the appointment of Dean. We really need to put this to bed and move on because I don't know how 30+ years of being a fan can be challenged by one appointment during  a time of austerity caused by a national pandemic.

Surely the apathy of League One only a few years back was the time to quit being a fan compared to the best position the club has been in the last 20 years. If you don't want to support the club that's your issue but I'm fully behind the club including the board, Dean and the players.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Actually nothing to do with that, but take your point. Wouldn't miss the money and could have refunded two of my 3 season tickets and still watched the games , but decided I'd let the club keep it. Appoint Holden, I'm out. Not quite that gullible I'm afraid.

I have never made my support of the club conditional on the choice of manager. See the post from Mr Popodopolous above for guidance.

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1 hour ago, E.G.Red said:

Yes we wanted a name ie Chris Hughton to take the club forward but for whatever reason (we can speculate but will we ever really know) so let’s get behind Dean. Bayern  Munich aren’t doing too badly having appointed an assistant as Manager are they?

The problem with that is that their ‘assistant’ won a WC - albeit as an assistant to Lowe.

Dont think DH was around in 66.

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For me, the refund option is more of a consideration this time than it was when we were in lockdown simply because of the way the club handled it.

Fair enough, I'm not expecting Jon Lansdown to phone me and thank me personally for donating the cash as watching the stream, but a thank-you email would have been appreciated, especially as the way the options were billed, which was essentially, donate the money or you are dead to us.

It was how the options were presented that annoyed me. And it still does.

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Hi @Phileas Fogg do you have some alternative financial projections? Would be keen to see them!

When we have a load out of contract next summer and hopefully some kind of return to football economic realities, that represents an opportunity to rebuild. Let us not forget FFP loss limits, though surely some sort of amendment required there!

In general, I do think football  might need for a bit anyway, to recalibrate financially somewhat. Not forever but for a period- at this level absolutely! It's a joke in any event, when turnover is exceeded by wages alone- as it is at this level in particular!

This of course, reflects in no way on anyone who may take a refund. If people want to, or need to, they can or should.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Perhaps if the PR department ( Is there one?) injected some excitement into the prospect of the new season, by possibly introducing some interesting offers, or new ideas, just something to excite the supporters?          After the enormous lack of communication for 5 weeks, followed by the appointment of DH, fans are understandably wearisome and to a degree untrusting of the club.  The club needs to stir up some interest somehow, it's a business as we all well know, so make it attractive for the consumer.         The club needs to communicate more with it's fanbase, and make us feel more included, rather than justsending out the occasional press release?             A new signing might help, as surely one thing DH has on his side is knowledge of the strength of the playing staff, and what might be needed?  Maybe the fixture list will instigate some excitement!! Ha!  🤑

Edited by maxjak
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I guess this will really boil down to what the club means to the fans when they can't go to the ground and actually be part of a match. Without the active participation things will certainly be re-evaluated. Given that many will have been seriously affected by the lockdown and will now be scrutinising the bank statements with great concern.

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2 hours ago, weepywall said:

Slightly off topic but has anyone that selected option 3 last season( credit on account) received the credit or any notification of pending credit ? I haven't heard a thing. 

Nope. Heard nothing. I emailed supporter services and didn’t even get a reply. Absolutely pissed right off with the lot of it.

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4 hours ago, PFree said:

So, after a prolonged period of non-communication, and following the club appointing a coaching team that few of us wanted - us ‘customers’ were largely ignored.

Now though, as the clubs cash flow is poor due to the impact of the pandemic, it very much needs its ‘FANS’ help. According to JL, it will shortly appeal to all ST holders NOT to request refunds, basically due to reduced crowd numbers, to allow the club to keep the money toward future season tickets etc.

As opposed to a refund, and in support of the clubs needs, I recently opted to take Robins TV recently but, I have to say that after recent events I have no interest in watching City on TV, playing in a sterile stadium with no atmosphere. I hope our form is good, however, the scar of recent events is still far too deep.

You might say support the club through thick and thin etc., (as I have done as a ST holder for the last 30 years or so) but, I am sorry to say my love for what was our club has gradually died since the day SC left. I sincerely hope it returns but when I witness how our club is run and how we as ‘fans’ are lied to and only seem to matter when it suits, sorry, but no thank you.

Good post, we were basically promised an exciting appointment who could take us to the next level - McCarthy, Hughton, Neil, Adkins and Cook were obviously not good enough, so they give us the assistant to the manager they sacked who was assistant alongside the other assistant who was also sacked ... how exciting!

I’m not sure I believe that the five ‘proven’ names I’ve listed above would have all refused to work within the constraints of the MA/SL strategy - and if they all would have refused, then that strategy needs ripping up and chucking away - we got ourselves into the position of being a championship club that could hope to compete at the top of the division - and now we’ve probably thrown it all away by giving a rookie the reins when we had a huge opportunity ...

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26 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Good post, we were basically promised an exciting appointment who could take us to the next level - McCarthy, Hughton, Neil, Adkins and Cook were obviously not good enough, so they give us the assistant to the manager they sacked who was assistant alongside the other assistant who was also sacked ... how exciting!

I’m not sure I believe that the five ‘proven’ names I’ve listed above would have all refused to work within the constraints of the MA/SL strategy - and if they all would have refused, then that strategy needs ripping up and chucking away - we got ourselves into the position of being a championship club that could hope to compete at the top of the division - and now we’ve probably thrown it all away by giving a rookie the reins when we had a huge opportunity ...

Or the current constraints of the combination of FFP and Covid?

FFP has not yet been amended and there are rules on Future Financial Information- how do you know that to deliver what one of them would have wanted wouldn't have put us in danger- because clubs who lose to the existing season in excess of £15m but not exceeding £39m have to submit the following to the EFL:

Quote

2.8 If the aggregation of a Club’s Adjusted Earnings Before Tax for T, T-1 and T-2 results in a loss that exceeds the Lower Loss Threshold, then the following shall apply:

2.8.1 the Club shall provide, by 31 March in the relevant Season, Future Financial Information to cover the period commencing from its last accounting reference date (as defined in section 391 of the 2006 Act) until the end of T+2 and a calculation of estimated aggregated Adjusted Earnings Before Tax until the end of T+2 based on that Future Financial Information;

'T' is the existing season, so what we (and all clubs) submitted in March as our projections. Therefore T-1 is real accounts for 2018/19 and T-2 is real accounts for 2017/18.

Accordingly, T+1 is the upcoming seasons financial projections- or more accurately our FFP projections- and T+2 is 2021/22. Think clubs were supposed to have stuck those in back at the end of March, the existing seasons Projections and past financials in early March.

I still think it possible that we are in this ballpark- which combined with Covid makes it less than feasible this summer to appoint such a manager, unless they are willing to accept immediate constraints for longer term gains.

I'd be interested in your solution to this possible dilemma however!

Btw I see Bournemouth and Watford snapped up these- eh- what! :whistle2:

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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2 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

Yes we wanted a name ie Chris Hughton to take the club forward but for whatever reason (we can speculate but will we ever really know) so let’s get behind Dean. Bayern  Munich aren’t doing too badly having appointed an assistant as Manager are they?

As far as I am aware, Dean Holden is a name. You have a name, I have a name, we all have names.

I guess what you really mean is that we must appoint somebody known, rather than the best man for the job, based on the required criteria.

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Fairly simple for me and my 2 family members with season cards - if we can go to matches, we are happy to pay and if we can't, we expect our money back.  With a very mediocre 19/20 season, the possibility of losing a couple of decent players and little money to replace them, coupled with an untried and untested head coach, I'm not expecting great things for 20/21 anyway.

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hi @Phileas Fogg do you have some alternative financial projections? Would be keen to see them!

When we have a load out of contract next summer and hopefully some kind of return to football economic realities, that represents an opportunity to rebuild. Let us not forget FFP loss limits, though surely some sort of amendment required there!

In general, I do think football  might need for a bit anyway, to recalibrate financially somewhat. Not forever but for a period- at this level absolutely! It's a joke in any event, when turnover is exceeded by wages alone- as it is at this level in particular!

This of course, reflects in no way on anyone who may take a refund. If people want to, or need to, they can or should.

None at all just admire your dogmatism on this issue and find it quite funny 😃

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