Sammie Szmodics - Signs for Peterborough

[Mr Popodopolous]

I still don't know if we should give up on Szmodics yet- clearly has something, could he play better in a different position- think wider left attacking midfield in a 3-4-3/3-4-2-1. Right to left.

GK

Back 3

Wing backs and 2 CM

Weimann         Szmodics

              Wells

Could be quite fluid IMO

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Richard Head said:

I wonder whether DH is thinking of switching him from midfield to play up front, as LJ did with Bobby.... I think it’s too early to be writing him off as “yet another of LJ’s failed signings”.

Yep. This is where I’m at with Sammie. 

The way I think Holden will set up is with Wells + 1. Wells being the ‘advanced’ forward, looking to run in behind, then a +1 as his partner to play more of a free role, roaming to each side and dropping a bit deeper too. 
I also think the +1 will be required to be energetic, the ‘press’ catalyst. 
 

This alludes to Weimann being the ‘typical’ partner for that style. But Fam staying would likely mean he’s the +1. 
After that, we have no depth. So my thought process is that Szmodics could very well be groomed as that 2nd striker, the energetic free role. You’d certainly think he’d be above Janneh & Semenyo in the pecking order. 

[Lew-T]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I still don't know if we should give up on Szmodics yet- clearly has something, could he play better in a different position- think wider left attacking midfield in a 3-4-3/3-4-2-1. Right to left.

GK

Back 3

Wing backs and 2 CM

Weimann         Szmodics

              Wells

Could be quite fluid IMO

Would be pretty harsh if we have ‘given up’ on Szmodics imo. Of course the coaching staff see more of him than we do...

However, I think he has the potential to impact the game more than a few here already. 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, Richard Head said:

I wonder whether DH is thinking of switching him from midfield to play up front, as LJ did with Bobby.... I think it’s too early to be writing him off as “yet another of LJ’s failed signings”.

Could be. He'd surely be 4th in line behind Wells, Weimann and Diedhiou, but at least there would be room for him in the squad. Surely rules out Palmer though?!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Only highlights, but Szmodics looked proper advanced, almost like a striker in the attacks for Peterborough. Him, Dembele and Toney all seemed to be rotating a fair bit.

He did look a bit lightweight though last season, so hopefully he's a bit stronger now. He does look like he's bulked up a bit I think.

Yes, he did Jon....almost a partner for Toney.

That kit is tight!! Seriously though, he’s a stocky little fella.

56 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yep. This is where I’m at with Sammie. 

The way I think Holden will set up is with Wells + 1. Wells being the ‘advanced’ forward, looking to run in behind, then a +1 as his partner to play more of a free role, roaming to each side and dropping a bit deeper too. 
I also think the +1 will be required to be energetic, the ‘press’ catalyst. 
 

This alludes to Weimann being the ‘typical’ partner for that style. But Fam staying would likely mean he’s the +1. 
After that, we have no depth. So my thought process is that Szmodics could very well be groomed as that 2nd striker, the energetic free role. You’d certainly think he’d be above Janneh & Semenyo in the pecking order. 

I think he’s more likely to be the 4th striker than Semenyo (unless we get a good bid).  Wells, Diedhiou, Weimann plus Szmodics (Sez-modics ).

There’s a lot of options covered there.

I’d be more than happy to perm the first three into two places as my first choice, might go horses for courses in some games.  Szmodics is the back-up.  You can’t cover all bases, but then again, I don’t want to see Diedhiou as a target man.  He has more to his game than that, albeit different to the others.

[mozo]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, he did Jon....almost a partner for Toney.

That kit is tight!! Seriously though, he’s a stocky little fella.

I think he’s more likely to be the 4th striker than Semenyo (unless we get a good bid).  Wells, Diedhiou, Weimann plus Szmodics (Sez-modics ).

There’s a lot of options covered there.

I’d be more than happy to perm the first three into two places as my first choice, might go horses for courses in some games.  Szmodics is the back-up.  You can’t cover all bases, but then again, I don’t want to see Diedhiou as a target man.  He has more to his game than that, albeit different to the others.

The other question is, out of Palmer, Szmodics and Semenyo, which of the three would prefer to be 4th forward and which would prefer to go out for increased gametime?

It's an opportunity gamble. And some players are nesting birds, whilst others have wanderlust.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

The other question is, out of Palmer, Szmodics and Semenyo, which of the three would prefer to be 4th forward and which would prefer to go out for increased gametime?

It's an opportunity gamble. And some players are nesting birds, whilst others have wanderlust.

I don’t think I’d include Palmer as the 4th striker in my squad.  I see him competing for one of the midfield slots.

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I just can't imagine Palmer pressing up top, like chasing down the goalkeeper for example. And then all the running out wide and on the shoulder. He just hasn't got that to his game. To me he's a floating attacking midfielder and probably nothing else. A very good one in the right set up. Up top I can't imagine it working but if he can do that work up there then it would be great to see.

Semenyo I'd probably say is the best fit as a proper striker. As he is very strong, very quick, and has a good leap on him too. But not sure he's ready and probably needs a whole season on loan to be confident and more experienced.

So that leaves Szmodics or possibly Paterson. Maybe even Eliasson!? I really don't know. Pato has at least played very well up top with Bobby before, but we don't have Bobby now so not sure he'd be so good up there.

All those options are more second strikers like Weimann is. And the big problem will be if Wells and Fam are injured. As then it might be something like Weimann and Szmodics leading the attack. Looked very poor against Swansea the one time we have seen it. Nothing stuck up top until Fam came on. 

To be fair, Diedhiou doesn’t do much of what you’ve put in bold either!!!

I agree re calling them “second strikers”....although we saw in 18/19 Weimann can be the “main striker” too (with Taylor or Paterson) should Wells / Diedhiou be injured

That Swansea game was a weird one, O’Dowda came into a MF3 replacing Palmer, and I think a lot of us pre-game thought it might be a more 541 (maybe the 4 in a diamond), but it was a 532.

Heres your thoughts...

Even then you’d laid your cards on the table re Rowe at LWB and O’Dowda there instead

I’m teasing you.

It wasn’t a flowing performance by any stretch though.

I digress....I guess we have some alternate options up top.  A lot will depend on how they all function together

[bpexile]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

Could be. He'd surely be 4th in line behind Wells, Weimann and Diedhiou, but at least there would be room for him in the squad. Surely rules out Palmer though?!

The Palmer situation is difficult isn't it? We quite often see how players for one reason or another just don't seem to fit into a suad, imo Palmer fits into that group of players, there's no doubting his ability but it doesn't seem to shine with us.

On the Sammy S situation, I have a gut feeling that if we let him go it could be a very big mistake, he's appears to me to have that spark that's needed & all he needs is the opportunity.

Anyhow time will tell.

[Major Isewater]

6 hours ago, bpexile said:

The Palmer situation is difficult isn't it? We quite often see how players for one reason or another just don't seem to fit into a suad, imo Palmer fits into that group of players, there's no doubting his ability but it doesn't seem to shine with us.

On the Sammy S situation, I have a gut feeling that if we let him go it could be a very big mistake, he's appears to me to have that spark that's needed & all he needs is the opportunity.

Anyhow time will tell.

SS hasn’t had the opportunity at City but when he did play he looked off the pace for whatever reason.

He has evidently got talent but will he get the chances here ?

If not we should do the right thing and move him on. 

[mozo]

8 hours ago, bpexile said:

The Palmer situation is difficult isn't it? We quite often see how players for one reason or another just don't seem to fit into a suad, imo Palmer fits into that group of players, there's no doubting his ability but it doesn't seem to shine with us.

It actually annoys me that we spent good money on him. He hadn't proved he could fit in during the loans spell and he has been a misfit ever since he signed. Nothing against him as a person or player but I worry that time will prove him to have been a waste of money.

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

 

The little I've seen of Weimann as the main striker I haven't been impressed. I think he's far more effective running out wide from central areas. Not really one that drops off to look for the ball, but rather runs wide which helps create space for the on the shoulder striker.

 

You could play him in the Vardy role but I don't think it would especially suit him. 

I see Weimann a little like our version of Thomas Muller - not spectacular at anything in particular but a solid competitor whose work rate drives the team on.

[BetterRedthanBlue]

The issue with Szmodics / Palmer / Pato is we have too many players for that role. I would consider these all No. 10's but only one can play and even then with the system we're using we probably won't and have Nagy, Walsh and Williams in the midfield. 

Is Szmodics goes up front he's competing against Wells, Fam (if he does sign a new contract), Weimann and Semenyo (who was used as our home grown player on the bench quite often before covid-19 stopped the season). I do think he would be better suited upfront in the false 9 position ala Bobby Reid but do you really replace Weimann, Wells or Fam with Szmodics? 

It's a frustrating situation to have. He clearly has talent and has shown he can play L1 & L2 and should be able to step up to the championship given he has 2 years left on his contract I say we look for a championship loan for him half season or full season to see if he can step up as it still gives up a bit of room for negotiation next summer. That or sell him to Peterborough for no less then £4m and a percentage of any sell on. 

[Richard Head]

42 minutes ago, mozo said:

It actually annoys me that we spent good money on him. He hadn't proved he could fit in during the loans spell and he has been a misfit ever since he signed. Nothing against him as a person or player but I worry that time will prove him to have been a waste of money.

You could play him in the Vardy role but I don't think it would especially suit him. 

I see Weimann a little like our version of Thomas Muller - not spectacular at anything in particular but a solid competitor whose work rate drives the team on.

I think you’re right. Sammie is probably more suited to the Vardy role, I think he’s quicker though I don’t have any stats to back that up. I remember noticing a couple of years ago how often he was on the scoresheet for Colchester.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

14 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Only highlights, but Szmodics looked proper advanced, almost like a striker in the attacks for Peterborough. Him, Dembele and Toney all seemed to be rotating a fair bit.

He did look a bit lightweight though last season, so hopefully he's a bit stronger now. He does look like he's bulked up a bit I think.

Not ‘almost’ like a striker, he wore the no. 9 shirt for Peterborough and from what I could see, admittedly only from tv highlights, he was played as an out-and-out striker.  For me, this puts him in competition with Wells, but I admit I’m not the greatest fan of Wells who I think was a poor signing for us.  I’d rather go with a promising young player and see what we can do with him.  Wells is 30 and I wonder what we can expect to get from him?  On the basis of what he did at Peterborough, I think Szmodics deserves a run in the no. 10 position, but I suppose Wells is going to block him.

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

Yep. This is where I’m at with Sammie. 

The way I think Holden will set up is with Wells + 1. Wells being the ‘advanced’ forward, looking to run in behind, then a +1 as his partner to play more of a free role, roaming to each side and dropping a bit deeper too. 
I also think the +1 will be required to be energetic, the ‘press’ catalyst. 
 

This alludes to Weimann being the ‘typical’ partner for that style. But Fam staying would likely mean he’s the +1. 
After that, we have no depth. So my thought process is that Szmodics could very well be groomed as that 2nd striker, the energetic free role. You’d certainly think he’d be above Janneh & Semenyo in the pecking order. 

Watched Sammie with the U23's & he's way ahead of Jennah/Semenyo imo ....

Very mobile & an eye for goal so see him "in the hole" with freedom.

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

does put in one hell of a shift

I well remember Famaral early on would be completely shattered around the 70th minute. He has got used to what is required through playing.

Palmer makes me think of JET , not terribly well built for the duration but can produce moments of magic.

 I hope we flog KP until his fitness levels either improve or if they can’t then sell him off to a physically less demanding league . 
 

I was angry with LJ last season when clearly KP put in the effort in the close season to come back as fit as he could only to be sidelined.

Let’s hope this is his time to shine. 
 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

 Wells is 30 and I wonder what we can expect to get from him?

We can expect an experienced twenty goal a season championship striker . Hopefully that’s what we’ll get .

He was signed to get us over the line and into the Prem but as we all know that gamble didn’t pay off but Wells played his part in the attempt.

It wasn’t his fault that we shot our selves in the foot when all we needed was an average return of points to get into the top six . 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I well remember Famaral early on would be completely shattered around the 70th minute. He has got used to what is required through playing.

The reason he lasts 90 minutes these days is because he doesn’t press at full-tilt, and he allows others to do some of his work.  I don’t have a problem with that per se, but people need to recognise that others compensate for him.  It is rare to see Fam flat out closing down a defender. I recognise his defensive prowess at set pieces, but I think people include this as “putting in a shift”.  Personally I’d rather he went full-tilt for 70-75 minutes in his all round game, but pressing and making runs to receive the ball.  I think that would elevate him to being a top player at this level.

Palmer makes me think of JET , not terribly well built for the duration but can produce moments of magic.

Palmer actually presses harder than Diedhiou, but he’s not very good at it, it’s not coordinated with his team mates, so it’s wasted energy and easily passed around.  It is something that can be coached into him...and it could be the defining for him.  If he can get over this issue he has a chance of being a key player.  Big if though.  To say Palmer doesn’t close the goalie, is finding something to be critical of.  He hasn’t played a position to make that a realistic objective.  If you played him as a striker / forward then that expectation changes.

 I hope we flog KP until his fitness levels either improve or if they can’t then sell him off to a physically less demanding league .

if I was told I had to generate some transfer funds, along with O’Dowda, Palmer would be one of the players I might tout about.  I like Palmer, and at 23 he’s approaching a watershed moment in his career.
 

I was angry with LJ last season when clearly KP put in the effort in the close season to come back as fit as he could only to be sidelined.

Let’s hope this is his time to shine. 
 

[Redrascal2]

On 24/08/2020 at 16:48, Richard Head said:

I wonder whether DH is thinking of switching him from midfield to play up front, as LJ did with Bobby.... I think it’s too early to be writing him off as “yet another of LJ’s failed signings”.

I don't think he is one of LJ's failed signings. He is another one of LJ's signing who he failed to give a chance to. Let's hope he gets it under Holden.

[Richard Head]

17 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

I don't think he is one of LJ's failed signings. He is another one of LJ's signing who he failed to give a chance to. Let's hope he gets it under Holden.

I agree. I was paraphrasing what had been written about him earlier in the thread.

[Hampshire reds]

Toney heading to Brentford.  a bid from Peterborough for sammie could be on the cards. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

Toney heading to Brentford.  a bid from Peterborough for sammie could be on the cards. 

They’ve signed JCH to replace Toney...be interesting if they see Szmodics partnering JCH, like he did with Toney.

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah can imagine so. Clarke Harris in for Toney. Alongside Dembele with Szmodics in behind. Not bad at all for league one that.

Do you see Dembele more as a “Floating” forward rather than straight down the middle / out and out?

[BLRed]

If we did sell sammy, I would hope we hold out for as much as poss. Not only because he’s potentially a very good player, but because supply and demand is key here to drive up price especially when they are about to pocket 10mill. I’d say 3/4mill with a 25% sell on included would be reasonable

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

33 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

If we did sell sammy, I would hope we hold out for as much as poss. Not only because he’s potentially a very good player, but because supply and demand is key here to drive up price especially when they are about to pocket 10mill. I’d say 3/4mill with a 25% sell on included would be reasonable

Do you really mean £750k, or 3-4M

[BLRed]

3-4mill

[Lrrr]

55 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

3-4mill

Yeah no way anyone is paying 3/4 million for him......

@Davefevs not quite sure if I've got this right so feel free to correct. But rumour at the time was fee for Szmodics was £750,000, amortisation over the 3 years of his contracts means £250,000 so far, if we sold for £1m plus add ons this summer with a hefty sell on that would represent a decent profit with potential future income as well. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Yeah no way anyone is paying 3/4 million for him......

@Davefevs not quite sure if I've got this right so feel free to correct. But rumour at the time was fee for Szmodics was £750,000, amortisation over the 3 years of his contracts means £250,000 so far, if we sold for £1m plus add ons this summer with a hefty sell on that would represent a decent profit with potential future income as well. 

Yep, from an accounting / FFP perspective.

[GrahamC]

The fact that he didn’t get any sort of run out today suggests he is probably the most likely player to move on before the Coventry game.

If Peterborough do want him, bearing in mind they still have most of the Toney money we should try to get as near as £1m for him as we can.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

The fact that he didn’t get any sort of run out today suggests he is probably the most likely player to move on before the Coventry game.

If Peterborough do want him, bearing in mind they still have most of the Toney money we should try to get as near as £1m for him as we can.

It certainly looks like Holden is very calculated in his approach to pre-season minutes, and doesn’t just bung players on.

I always find it interesting when you give players 45-60 mins in pre-season.  At some point you need them playing 90, to replicate that first game.  Holden seems to have been very focussed in this area, even people like Kalas, who he wanted to have 90 before potentially 2x90 for his country.

I like the thought that’s gone into this.

As for Szmodics, we will need to wait and see.  I wouldn’t be rushing to offload him unless Peterborough really come up with a v.good offer.  Long time before the window closes.

[Kid in the Riot]

Szmodics will go. Loads of interest in him, not just Posh.