Joe Williams - Confirmed (Merged)

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Bristol City's record signing:

11 pages. ELEVEN. And he sneaks onto the roof like a seasoned cat burglar

Is this the new normal? I like it.

Evidently people weren't watching the roof hard enough

[bcfc01]

6 hours ago, phantom said:

I would have thought a season out on loan to a league 1 side would be best for Joe this season

I fully expect Morrell to be an important part of the team this season, he's had enough loans.

I see him as at least equal to Joe Williams - slightly different players but both can put a foot in and both can break up play, Williams may have a better range of passing but Morrell is like a dog with a bone, he won't give up and he won't back out. Similar players, good to have both.

Bottom line is that Morrell has outgrown L1 imo and ready to kick on.

[James54De]

16 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Bristol City's record signing:

11 pages. ELEVEN. And he sneaks onto the roof like a seasoned cat burglar

Is this the new normal? I like it.

Record signing? Ay? He cost 2 million.

[Harry]

I agree with the comments about Morrell staying with us this season. 
He’s earned great reviews at L1 last year. Same as Walsh. 
If we’d signed either of them this summer then fans would no doubt be happy. 
Exactly what we’d need to be doing - picking the most outstanding players from L1. But they’re already ours. 
 

I think he’s ready to play for us. He won’t be the finished article, but I want to see him learn on the job, with us, at this level. 
 

I’ve actually got a slightly different theory to many in regards how we could potentially set up with 3 CM’s - Walsh, Williams & Morrell. 
 

All 3 have quite similar qualities - energy, passing ability, tackling ferocity, vision. So if you look at all 3 you think they can all do a job in DM, CM or AM. 
 

Morrell, I believe, played quite a deep role at Lincoln last season. 
We tend to look at Williams and think DM, but Morsy tended to be the strict DM in that Wigan side with Williams more the B2B. 
Likewise Walsh was more the creative element for Cov, playing slightly more advanced. 
 

I’m liking the idea of playing all 3, with Morrell as the holding player, Williams as the BoxtoBox and Walsh slightly advanced. 
 

Playing all 3 would certainly gives us a very solid centre, with tackles aplenty! That would be a tough, tough midfield to break down. Yet there’s still plenty of creative spark, passing ability and vision in all 3 of them for it not to be a ‘defensive’ combo. All 3 can hold, screen & tackle, yet all 3 can also play forward and travel. 
 

I think this triumvirate has the makings of a quite spectacular midfield. 
 

I think those 3 should be the starters, with HNM & Nagy as the backups. 
I wonder, even, if a 4-3-3 might be possible. We seem to think that, because of the last 5 games, Holden will play 5-3-2, but with this midfield I wonder if 3 up top might be more possible now, knowing you’ve got a solid core. 
 

One thing is for sure. I’m stoked by the return of LW & JM, plus the addition of JW. Given our awful midfield options last year, these 3 are a huge boost. 

[Ska Junkie]

2 hours ago, Judda said:

I know these vids only show one side of a story but his tackles look amazing and not a bad ball player too... excited now!

He must have a superb technique in the tackle as you would expect a number of those to result in a free kick for the opposition. 

Looks a player and we've needed some steel in the midfield for quite a while.

[Judda]

14 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

He must have a superb technique in the tackle as you would expect a number of those to result in a free kick for the opposition. 

Looks a player and we've needed some steel in the midfield for quite a while.

Some of the timings looked amazing...

[Lrrr]

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree with the comments about Morrell staying with us this season. 
He’s earned great reviews at L1 last year. Same as Walsh. 
If we’d signed either of them this summer then fans would no doubt be happy. 
Exactly what we’d need to be doing - picking the most outstanding players from L1. But they’re already ours. 
 

I think he’s ready to play for us. He won’t be the finished article, but I want to see him learn on the job, with us, at this level. 
 

I’ve actually got a slightly different theory to many in regards how we could potentially set up with 3 CM’s - Walsh, Williams & Morrell. 
 

All 3 have quite similar qualities - energy, passing ability, tackling ferocity, vision. So if you look at all 3 you think they can all do a job in DM, CM or AM. 
 

Morrell, I believe, played quite a deep role at Lincoln last season. 
We tend to look at Williams and think DM, but Morsy tended to be the strict DM in that Wigan side with Williams more the B2B. 
Likewise Walsh was more the creative element for Cov, playing slightly more advanced. 
 

I’m liking the idea of playing all 3, with Morrell as the holding player, Williams as the BoxtoBox and Walsh slightly advanced. 
 

Playing all 3 would certainly gives us a very solid centre, with tackles aplenty! That would be a tough, tough midfield to break down. Yet there’s still plenty of creative spark, passing ability and vision in all 3 of them for it not to be a ‘defensive’ combo. All 3 can hold, screen & tackle, yet all 3 can also play forward and travel. 
 

I think this triumvirate has the makings of a quite spectacular midfield. 
 

I think those 3 should be the starters, with HNM & Nagy as the backups. 
I wonder, even, if a 4-3-3 might be possible. We seem to think that, because of the last 5 games, Holden will play 5-3-2, but with this midfield I wonder if 3 up top might be more possible now, knowing you’ve got a solid core. 
 

One thing is for sure. I’m stoked by the return of LW & JM, plus the addition of JW. Given our awful midfield options last year, these 3 are a huge boost. 

After watching the video of him I've got a feeling he and Morrell will interchange on the deeper role to keep it flexible and harder to mark, Morrell also got forward at times for Lincoln. Just a case Walsh to play slightly more advanced but then come deep to link up play.

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

After watching the video of him I've got a feeling he and Morrell will interchange on the deeper role to keep it flexible and harder to mark, Morrell also got forward at times for Lincoln. Just a case Walsh to play slightly more advanced but then come deep to link up play.

Exactly. All 3 have the ability to play deeper or advanced. All 3 can tackle, can pass, can cover, can track, can create, have composure, want the ball etc. 
You could easily see all 3 in a pivot, interchanging continuously through the game. 
I genuinely think it’s got the makings of as solid a central midfield as we’ve had in decades (caveat - not necessarily this season, but the ‘makings of’). 

[CyderInACan]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think this triumvirate has the makings of a quite spectacular midfield. 

Cracking use of triumvirate 

Bravo. 

Looks like Williams is a very popular addition 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, Harry said:

I agree with the comments about Morrell staying with us this season. 
He’s earned great reviews at L1 last year. Same as Walsh. 
If we’d signed either of them this summer then fans would no doubt be happy. 
Exactly what we’d need to be doing - picking the most outstanding players from L1. But they’re already ours. 
 

I think he’s ready to play for us. He won’t be the finished article, but I want to see him learn on the job, with us, at this level. 
 

I’ve actually got a slightly different theory to many in regards how we could potentially set up with 3 CM’s - Walsh, Williams & Morrell. 
 

All 3 have quite similar qualities - energy, passing ability, tackling ferocity, vision. So if you look at all 3 you think they can all do a job in DM, CM or AM. 
 

Morrell, I believe, played quite a deep role at Lincoln last season.

I watched a fair bit of him last season, and typically he played deep, but sometimes with big Bostwick alongside him.  After the window closed he even played more advanced...bit like he did in the FA Cup game v Bolton.  But the beauty with him is he always moves forward with possession.  HNM did the same in his early games with us when Brownhill was happy to sacrifice his game and sit deeper.
We tend to look at Williams and think DM, but Morsy tended to be the strict DM in that Wigan side with Williams more the B2B.

good point.
Likewise Walsh was more the creative element for Cov, playing slightly more advanced. 
 

I’m liking the idea of playing all 3, with Morrell as the holding player, Williams as the BoxtoBox and Walsh slightly advanced. 
 

Playing all 3 would certainly gives us a very solid centre, with tackles aplenty! That would be a tough, tough midfield to break down. Yet there’s still plenty of creative spark, passing ability and vision in all 3 of them for it not to be a ‘defensive’ combo. All 3 can hold, screen & tackle, yet all 3 can also play forward and travel.

That’s why I’m trying to ensure we don’t pigeonhole each player to a role.  All 5 can do different things to some of the things I’m reading on here.  It was the same with Korey - “he’s a DM”.  He wasn’t.  Certainly not when Pack played in the deeper midfield told.

If our players are intelligent and can communicate well it can be very fluid in there.
 

I think this triumvirate has the makings of a quite spectacular midfield. 
 

I think those 3 should be the starters, with HNM & Nagy as the backups. 
I wonder, even, if a 4-3-3 might be possible. We seem to think that, because of the last 5 games, Holden will play 5-3-2, but with this midfield I wonder if 3 up top might be more possible now, knowing you’ve got a solid core. 
 

One thing is for sure. I’m stoked by the return of LW & JM, plus the addition of JW. Given our awful midfield options last year, these 3 are a huge boost. 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

58 minutes ago, James54De said:

Record signing? Ay? He cost 2 million.

Oh dear..... the record is 11 pages not the cost- silly pants

[Lrrr]

14 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Oh dear..... the record is 11 pages not the cost- silly pants

Wonder what the record pages for someone we actually signed is....

[marcofisher]

9 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Well, to answer a question with a question, how many teams in the Championship would he be able to go to and be guaranteed 40 or more games? I don't think it's that common these days for players to ever present, especially in the midfield roles. 

Pack and Brownhill did that for us two seasons in a row. 

We cant rotate 5 in 2 positions and give them the starts they each desire, if you do the maths, it doesn’t add up to even 20 starts each if they were rotated evenly. Someone is going to really be disappointed with their game time. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Wonder what the record pages for someone we actually signed is....

Lee Tomlin probably - for a signing.

and Eddie Nketiah has surely got to hold the record for a non signing

[James54De]

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Pack and Brownhill did that for us two seasons in a row. 

We cant rotate 5 in 2 positions and give them the starts they each desire, if you do the maths, it doesn’t add up to even 20 starts each if they were rotated evenly. Someone is going to really be disappointed with their game time. 

No midfielder should be playing over 40 games in a season. Remember how slow Pack looked towards the end of that season. I feel like we may sometimes start with 3 true CMs, which will mean that we’d need 5. We are truly gifted for options in this area now. 

[Port Said Red]

6 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Pack and Brownhill did that for us two seasons in a row. 

We cant rotate 5 in 2 positions and give them the starts they each desire, if you do the maths, it doesn’t add up to even 20 starts each if they were rotated evenly. Someone is going to really be disappointed with their game time. 

It’s an interesting debate. There are some concerns about the lack of Championship football for both Morrell and Walsh in particular, then Massengo is only 18/19, so maybe rotation is a good way of managing their step up?

[Harry]

6 hours ago, James54De said:

No midfielder should be playing over 40 games in a season. Remember how slow Pack looked towards the end of that season. I feel like we may sometimes start with 3 true CMs, which will mean that we’d need 5. We are truly gifted for options in this area now. 

Midfielders who played 40+ games last season :

Gallagher 45. 
Klich 45. 
Watson 45. 
Livermore 45. 
Clucas 44. 
Mowatt 44. 
Bannan 44. 
Mpanzu 44. 
Morsy 43. 
Browne 43. 
Travis 43. 
Dasilva 42. 
Sawyers 42. 
Swift 41. 
Bellingham 41. 
Bacuna 41. 
McNair 41. 
Wing 40. 
Tunnicliffe 40. 
Lopes 40. 
Sunjic 40. 
 

Also. 
Cairney 39. 
Jenson 39. 

Williams played 38. 

So, pretty much every team had a CM who played over 40 games. We are conspicuous by our absence. 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

He must have a superb technique in the tackle as you would expect a number of those to result in a free kick for the opposition. 

Cue 'straight red first game ..

 

[Son of Fred]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

We are conspicuous by our absence. 

And by our consistency..

Decide whom the 'lynchpin will be & keep him in there please.

[marcofisher]

7 hours ago, James54De said:

No midfielder should be playing over 40 games in a season. Remember how slow Pack looked towards the end of that season. I feel like we may sometimes start with 3 true CMs, which will mean that we’d need 5. We are truly gifted for options in this area now. 

30 is optimum in my point, but my main point was if we are to evenly rotate our midfield they will get less than 20 starts each, which will not suit their development. Plus Williams has not been brought in to make that little starts, so that will bring someone’s game time further down. 

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

It’s an interesting debate. There are some concerns about the lack of Championship football for both Morrell and Walsh in particular, then Massengo is only 18/19, so maybe rotation is a good way of managing their step up?

I’ll get aubergines for this, but I don’t think a 6 month loan for Massengo is an awful idea... None of the others will be receptive to a loan now, unless it was loaning Nagy back to Europe, but I think it would be a shame to not properly see what he has to offer.

My worry is that I’m struggling to see Massengo getting a lot of game time under DH now that Williams has been brought in and he has Walsh, Nagy and Morrell to dislodge. 

It’s all well and good saying “he is too good to loan out” or “we don’t spend £X mill on a player to loan them”. But at the end of the day, we are going to lose that investment if he does not get the game time needed to develop.  

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

30 is optimum in my point, but my main point was if we are to evenly rotate our midfield they will get less than 20 starts each, which will not suit their development. Plus Williams has not been brought in to make that little starts, so that will bring someone’s game time further down. 

I’ll get aubergines for this, but I don’t think a 6 month loan for Massengo is an awful idea... None of the others will be receptive to a loan now, unless it was loaning Nagy back to Europe, but I think it would be a shame to not properly see what he has to offer.

My worry is that I’m struggling to see Massengo getting a lot of game time under DH now that Williams has been brought in and he has Walsh, Nagy and Morrell to dislodge. 

It’s all well and good saying “he is too good to loan out” or “we don’t spend £X mill on a player to loan them”. But at the end of the day, we are going to lose that investment if he does not get the game time needed to develop.  

It's not the worst idea, but I think the issue would be, who does he go to? You would imagine his advisors who have persuaded him to walk away from a club that were giving european football, would be too happy with the the idea of him going down to even League 1 level. Which teams in the Championship are going to offer him more time than us, and do we want to potentially strengthen any of them by letting him go there?

[Sturny]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Midfielders who played 40+ games last season :

Gallagher 45. 
Klich 45. 
Watson 45. 
Livermore 45. 
Clucas 44. 
Mowatt 44. 
Bannan 44. 
Mpanzu 44. 
Morsy 43. 
Browne 43. 
Travis 43. 
Dasilva 42. 
Sawyers 42. 
Swift 41. 
Bellingham 41. 
Bacuna 41. 
McNair 41. 
Wing 40. 
Tunnicliffe 40. 
Lopes 40. 
Sunjic 40. 
 

Also. 
Cairney 39. 
Jenson 39. 

Williams played 38. 

So, pretty much every team had a CM who played over 40 games. We are conspicuous by our absence. 

Haha you love to see it 

[marcofisher]

5 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Re Massengo, you're making the assumption that he isnt first choice based on the end of last season. 

Williams,

Massengo, Nagy, Insert Midfielder of choice 

Works well for example 

There's million different ways to set up and all i see is the lazy we must loan Massengo trope. 

It's not an aubergine, however I am really starting to wonder where are fans heads are at

You would think that after their performance last season, he will be behind at least Walsh and probably Morrell on the pecking order. How do we give them all the game time they all deserve? 

And we still have 3 number 10s... so we all of a sudden are not going to play with a number 10? I doubt that.

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, havanatopia said:

He actually said that? Does he think we 'customers' missed an earlier one?! Silly sausage.

I bet you don't have the Scouse accent to go with it tho mucker?

I miss Brookside .

 I miss the eighties. 
 

[marcofisher]

14 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Well no, I wouldn't think after last season, because different manager, selection and tactics... 

I've pointed out we have options in midfield and provided one of about 70 odd combinations, maybe way more we can have and you've then changed the discussion to no number 10, to try and spin and deflect. 

On one level we have our fans stating openly not to play certain players because they've never done it in the champs, see Jonny Smith

on another we must loan out players with a champ experience to get, er more champ experience, your case, Massengo, see also Vyner, 

and on a third play players who have no or little champ experience such as Walsh or Morrell and they will be better than what we have. 

It's utterly impossible, the fans wants. 

Hence sticking to my initial reaction that we appear to not see the quality we do have and not rely on lazy loan the next one tropes. 

My point was if we were to play three centre mids, then that means we have an optimal number there and wouldn’t have to get lose one. But then we have the same issue at number 10, where we have 3 players for a position we are not going to use. Massengo was very poor in 2020, not quite looking ready and easily bullied in midfield at times, perhaps due to LJ. I guess we will see if DH thinks he is at Championship level soon enough. 

Between the CM and CAM/no10 position we have 8 players, really the optimum number would be 6.

I am all for playing our young players as much as you are, and a big advocate of our buying and development model, the problem currently is unless we play a 2-6-2, we simply can’t play them all.

 

[marcofisher]

35 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It's not the worst idea, but I think the issue would be, who does he go to? You would imagine his advisors who have persuaded him to walk away from a club that were giving european football, would be too happy with the the idea of him going down to even League 1 level. Which teams in the Championship are going to offer him more time than us, and do we want to potentially strengthen any of them by letting him go there?

That would be the issue, perhaps to a club promoted to the championship who really need the players after COVID?

IRL I think it is more likely Morrell leaving or Walsh if he doesn’t sign a new deal. I think it would be shame to lose any of our midfielders, as I think they all have the potential to play at a better level than where we are currently.

[mozo]

I think people are jumping to conclusions about which midfielders will start or leave a little too early. They've all got until the window closes to prove themselves on the training ground and in the minutes they get in games. Nagy and Massengo coild prove themselves to be the most able of the group for all we know. Walsh and Williams might both be injured by September 

We're in a great position to have so many talented young midfielders, at least a couple of which might go on to play at a higher level. There's healthy competition to drive them all on and we should see the rewards. 

I think midfield will be our strongest position. We've got so much energy, enthusiasm and technical ability that I think we will try to outwork the opposition in the middle of the park. #busybees

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

I think people are jumping to conclusions about which midfielders will start or leave a little too early. They've all got until the window closes to prove themselves on the training ground and in the minutes they get in games. Nagy and Massengo coild prove themselves to be the most able of the group for all we know. Walsh and Williams might both be injured by September 

We're in a great position to have so many talented young midfielders, at least a couple of which might go on to play at a higher level. There's healthy competition to drive them all on and we should see the rewards. 

I think midfield will be our strongest position. We've got so much energy, enthusiasm and technical ability that I think we will try to outwork the opposition in the middle of the park. #busybees

I think those fixtures being released really hammer home how important rotation is going to be, with only 4 weeks where there's not saturday/midweek fixtures. 

We (all clubs) basically need 2 x 1st team starting 11's, just to provide ample rest time, as the season progresses. 

It's going to be tough for everyone and having "too many" players could be our saving grace. 

[mozo]

24 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think those fixtures being released really hammer home how important rotation is going to be, with only 4 weeks where there's not saturday/midweek fixtures. 

We (all clubs) basically need 2 x 1st team starting 11's, just to provide ample rest time, as the season progresses. 

It's going to be tough for everyone and having "too many" players could be our saving grace. 

Definitely, agree with that. I suspect all of those midfielders will get gametime in September. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

I think people are jumping to conclusions about which midfielders will start or leave a little too early. They've all got until the window closes to prove themselves on the training ground and in the minutes they get in games. Nagy and Massengo coild prove themselves to be the most able of the group for all we know. Walsh and Williams might both be injured by September 

We're in a great position to have so many talented young midfielders, at least a couple of which might go on to play at a higher level. There's healthy competition to drive them all on and we should see the rewards. 

I think midfield will be our strongest position. We've got so much energy, enthusiasm and technical ability that I think we will try to outwork the opposition in the middle of the park. #busybees

After the November international break, there are 15 games in 53 days.