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Famara


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8 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I’m probably going to be shot down for this, but........

I too love Fam, BUT - despite his unquestionable effort, plus the shifts he puts in defensively too, he is a very difficult player to build your team around. He scores goals but he’s not prolific. He defends well but he’s not a full-back - and when defending he’s out of position, so he’s not ready to receive if we break. 
Like I said - love the guy - his attitude and work rate is spot on, but I would struggle to justify playing him in a balanced side. He can’t be defending one minute and up front scoring the next. He’s strong but slow. He also didn’t really ‘bond’ with anyone like Afobe did with Palmer.  I wonder if trying to build a team around Fammy was one of the things that we did wrong last season(?)

I’d be sad to see him go and we’d lose a huge popular personality, but it MIGHT free us up to focus on building the side around Wells?

Good well balanced post and a spot on summary of Famara’s strengths. He was used at both ends of the pitch and largely why LJ selected him every time he was available. Two for one..........

No doubt that Wells has more goals in him. He’s a natural finisher whereas Fam can and does miss a few sitters and building a team around one player (unless that player is Messi) is not a good idea imo.

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9 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I’m probably going to be shot down for this, but........

I too love Fam, BUT - despite his unquestionable effort, plus the shifts he puts in defensively too, he is a very difficult player to build your team around. He scores goals but he’s not prolific. He defends well but he’s not a full-back - and when defending he’s out of position, so he’s not ready to receive if we break. 
Like I said - love the guy - his attitude and work rate is spot on, but I would struggle to justify playing him in a balanced side. He can’t be defending one minute and up front scoring the next. He’s strong but slow. He also didn’t really ‘bond’ with anyone like Afobe did with Palmer.  I wonder if trying to build a team around Fammy was one of the things that we did wrong last season(?)

I’d be sad to see him go and we’d lose a huge popular personality, but it MIGHT free us up to focus on building the side around Wells?


 

A huge thing for me with Fam is he is the one player we have that frequently gives me the sense of sheer giddy joy that I first got as a child that gave me a love of football in the first place. In a way, I think it is partly because there is something of the underdog abut him - there are times when he looks like he's never seen a football before and then he'll suddenly pull off a moment of sublime skill and/or beat three men whilst appearing not to have the ball under control. I remember back in around 2000 the BBC did a feature on club's "Cult heroes" and he's properly in that category for me. I absolutely love the guy and, in a season where watching City could be a slog at times, he was the one player who would make me beam with joy.  

In a more rational sense, I guess the issue for me is what is possible. Money is surely limited and that could be exacerbated by the fact we may not get the fee we want for Fam in a depressed market. And, at the moment, we have Wells and Diedhiou as strikers plus Watkins or Weimann (both of whom are not perfect players and both of whom may be seen as better in other positions) plus Semnyo and Jannah, who are yet to prove themselves as this level. If we think we can get a good replacement for Fam who fits the team better then I'd be sad but understand the pragmatism of the decision but, if we cannot find the right replacement, I'd rather we kept Fam and, depending on intended formation next season, might argue we were still a striker light even with Fam in the squad.

I'm not sure I agree we (successfully at least) built at team around Fam last season. I think we have a huge number of players - Fam, Wells, Nagy, Paterson, Palmer, Eliasson and arguably even Weimann and O'Dowda - who've been hindered in their time here because we've frequently not managed to find a way to get them to play to their strengths in a way that benefits the team. Some of those players possibly are not good enough to justify us getting the best of them and we can't play a formation that suits everyone but I do think that one early priority for Holden - which Johnson never quite managed to do - is to decide which formation suits the squad and which two or three players it is most essential for us to get the best out of within that formation and build the team in order to suit the strengths of whoever he feels to be the key players in the squad. Fam might be one of those players or he might not and, if he isn't, there's obviously a decision to be made if he still fits into the side. But I'm not sure last season we set the team up to get the best out of anyone and it felt like everyone was compromising and sacrificing key parts of their game. That is one thing I really want to see change next season, regardless of where that leaves Fam. 

Edited by LondonBristolian
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He is the most improved player under the Johnson regime in my opinion. When he came here he wasn't really a target man and it became obvious that he couldn't bully Championship defences in the way the videos showed he did in France. He has learned the English game, developed and added aspects to his game that have made him a target man and the envy of many opposition supporters. The old Fam would not have scored that goal at QPR, and he wouldn't have scored some of the poachers goals he has scored. 
He clearly had a crisis of confidence in the first part of last season, I think he saw Afobe as a threat and a reflection of the managers lack of faith in him. I don't think it's any coincidence that he came back from scoring a hat trick for Senegal, playing alongside Mane and looked twice the player, it clearly gave him a much greater confidence in himself. 

Should he be allowed to leave? I am not so sure. He is only going to be 28 during this season, and history suggests that players of his type, that don't depend on pace, only get better with experience. In the Championship there are going to be games where you need a Fam rather than a Nahki, if he is to leave we will have pay some seriously good money to replace him with better.

 

Edited by Port Said Red
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1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

He is the most improved player under the Johnson regime in my opinion. When he came here he wasn't really a target man and it became obvious that he couldn't bully Championship defences in the way the videos showed he did in France. He has learned the English game, developed and added aspects to his game that have made him a target man and the envy of many opposition supporters. The old Fam would not have scored that goal at QPR, and he wouldn't have scored some of the poachers goals he has scored. 
He clearly had a crisis of confidence in the first part of last season, I think he saw Afobe as a threat and a reflection of the managers lack of faith in him. I don't think it's any coincidence that he came back from scoring a hat trick for Senegal, playing alongside Mane and looked twice the player, it clearly gave him a much greater confidence in himself. 

Should he be allowed to leave? I am not so sure. He is only going to be 28 during this season, and history suggests that players of his type, that don't depend on pace, only get better with experience. In the Championship there are going to be games where you need a Fam rather than a Nahki, if he is to leave we will have pay some seriously good money to replace him with better.

 

I think the turning point for FD was the apparent spitting incident against Birmingham. He served his ban and come back like a different player. It was really noticeable IMO

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People moaning about Fam not being in a forward position to receive the ball as he's back defending is hilarious.

You do realise that if we had a better midfield/defence in the first place then he probably wouldn't even be needed back there don't you!? Do these same people realise he was probably being told to defend the corners?

The guy has had double figures every season since he's been here, and was last seasons top scorer. Yes he can be frustrating at times with a poor touch, but he's improved immensely since he's been here, and quite frankly we'd be in the shit without his goals, as well as his defensive work!! If he had a brilliant first touch and double figure's every year, he'd be playing at the top of this league, maybe even be around a lower Prem club.

Get the midfield/defence sorted, which hopefully the signing of Williams is going to help with, and he won't be needed as much at the back. It's not rocket science. 

A striker who will get you double figures in the Championship, pre-covid (because nobody really knows what the market is going to do at the moment), you'd be spending at least £12m.

A waste of money at £5.3m? Have a word with yourselves.

Edited by Taz
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16 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

He is the most improved player under the Johnson regime in my opinion.

he’s not in my opinion. 😀

When he came here he wasn't really a target man and it became obvious that he couldn't bully Championship defences in the way the videos showed he did in France.

Why spend £5.3m on a player (a club record at the time) who’s not a target man and try and turn him into one.  We had one already in Milan Djuric, albeit injury prone!

His game in France for Angers was not as a target man.  I would suggest if we really wanted another target man there were cheaper options than Fam.

Those opening dozen or so games in a City shirt were his most natural performances.  13+2 apps / 6 goals in all comps....playing more like he did in France.  His only real struggle was adjusting to the pace of the game.

He has learned the English game, developed and added aspects to his game that have made him a target man and the envy of many opposition supporters.

It’s stifled the other parts of his game, the more natural parts....but that seems to be a recurring thought on here re LJ’s coaching.  At Boro (a) especially,  I saw a “free” / natural Diedhiou for the first time in a long, long while.  Holden got something “old” back out of him.

The old Fam would not have scored that goal at QPR,

probably, a header in a million.

and he wouldn't have scored some of the poachers goals he has scored.

speculative at best, and I don’t think many would consider him a scorer of poachers goals really.
He clearly had a crisis of confidence in the first part of last season, I think he saw Afobe as a threat and a reflection of the managers lack of faith in him. I don't think it's any coincidence that he came back from scoring a hat trick for Senegal, playing alongside Mane and looked twice the player, it clearly gave him a much greater confidence in himself. 

Should he be allowed to leave? I am not so sure. He is only going to be 28 during this season, and history suggests that players of his type, that don't depend on pace, only get better with experience. In the Championship there are going to be games where you need a Fam rather than a Nahki, if he is to leave we will have pay some seriously good money to replace him with better.
the problem as we are led to believe is that he won’t extend his contract, or certainly that was the alleged case pre-covid.  It is alleged it wasn’t an “LJ thing”, so can only assume he wants to progress his career elsewhere either football-wise or financially or a combination of both.

Personally, in post-covid times I wouldn’t be straining the budget to try and extend him.  If there’s a sensible deal to be done, then fine.  But I also think we could possibly find a better partner for Wells than Fam....and if that was say Macauley Bonne, you could do it a lot more cost-effectively.

But we are all trying to second guess how Dean Holden is gonna play it.  To contradict my sentence above, if Dean really thinks he is the right partner and can improve him too, then I’d be all for keeping him.  I need to see that plan....under LJ it was random, stuff on a whim.

But it’s all about opinions, and although I’ve been critical of Fam, I do recognise his contribution.  I certainly don’t think he is shit, I never called him trampoline touch like some fans.  If they realised how hard it is to play back to goal in the championship they might be more forgiving.

All good debate though 👍🏻

 

 

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When I try to assess Fam, I listen to supporters of opposition teams when the inevitable ' who would you want from their side' and usually it's Fam. 'Good hold up player' and ' a total pain to play against' are the usual comments.

I would like to see him stay but not for a kings ransom.

The other thing to take into account is how much someone is prepared to pay for him and whether we can replace him for similar ££?

Edited by Ska Junkie
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11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That’s kinda my opinion too....assuming that Holden believes there is a better partner for Wells.  Would like to see someone like Bonne alongside Wells.

Why do you have to build a side around Wells? He's got a slightly better a scoring rate than Fam at this level (edit, turns out he doesn't and Fam has a better scoring record at this level.) , people get excited as he tends to bunch his goals together in certain seasons, yes he could potentially score 20 in a season, but he could also score less than 10 which he has done more than once at this level. 

14/15 - 11 goals in 33 games, 

15/16 - 17 in 45 games, 

16/17 - 10 in 46

17/18 - 7 in 40

18/19 - 7 in 40

19/20 - 18 in 43

246 games - 70 goals at 0.28 goals per game. 

Can someone point me to the 20 goals a. Season striker that you build your side around at 30?

17/18 - 13 in 32

18/19 - 13 in 41

19/20 - 12 in 41

114 games 38 goals at 0.33 goals per game. 

At 27 there is only one forward that we should be building our side around, should you choose to build your side around a striker and it is Fam every time and by a country mile, stick him in a side that is built around him and I think he could be prolific. 

Edited by Spud55
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50 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Out of interest @Davefevs who do you think has improved more in their time here? 

Brownhill probably.

Moore has been the most up and down and I’ve changed my opinion on him several times!!  Pack improved, then dropped off.  Diedhiou has been up and down.

17 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Why do you have to build a side around Wells? He's got a slightly better a scoring rate than Fam at this level (edit, turns out he doesn't and Fam has a better scoring record at this level.) , people get excited as he tends to bunch his goals together in certain seasons, yes he could potentially score 20 in a season, but he could also score less than 10 which he has done more than once at this level. 

14/15 - 11 goals in 33 games, 

15/16 - 17 in 45 games, 

16/17 - 10 in 46

17/18 - 7 in 40

18/19 - 7 in 40

19/20 - 18 in 43

246 games - 70 goals at 0.28 goals per game. 

Can someone point me to the 20 goals a. Season striker that you build your side around at 30?

17/18 - 13 in 32

18/19 - 13 in 41

19/20 - 12 in 41

114 games 38 goals at 0.33 goals per game. 

At 27 there is only one forward that we should be building our side around, should you choose to build your side around a striker and it is Fam every time and by a country mile, stick him in a side that is built around him and I think he could be prolific. 

Answer: you don’t have to.  I’m not suggesting building a team around him, but I’ve also seen little evidence (on the whole) that Diedhiou has built a partnership with anyone in his 3 years here either, not even Reid.  I’m assuming we will go two up top, and I think we might have better luck creating a pair that includes Wells that fits the team better than a pair that includes Diedhiou.  I’ve never mentioned a necessity for 20 goals either.  I’d rather have a team that all chips in.  Holden got good productive numbers out of a midfield that included Weimann (4 assists) and Paterson (2 goals / 1 assist) in a mall sample.

In terms of stats, I prefer to compare by minutes (Champ only).

Fam: 114 apps (92+22) / 38g / 7a / 8421mins / gpg 0.41

Nahki: 227 apps (185+42) / 70g / 22a / 16249mins / gpg 0.39

Fam just shades it.  The numbers are quite similar as a ratio of 2:1 which is quite interesting.

Also, the other fact is that one has a long contract here, the other has made noise that he won’t sign a new deal.  MA suggested they are in talks, but he didn’t sound convinced Fam would sign.  Fam in self-isolation is not good preparation either.  Being critical (without knowing full details)....was there not a more efficient way of going back home and getting back home without missing the first two weeks of pre-season?  The timeline suggests he only returned just ahead of pre-season.

But in reality, we need to understand Fam’s fate.  The conspiracy theorist in me says he’s off!  But if we hear he’s signed a new deal then it must be a mutual - he wants to sign, Holden wants him to sign.  That’s a double positive imho.

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In the current financial climate it would be sensible all round to extend his deal unless he has a better offer.

Replacing him carries a risk and the cost will either be more or like for like but most likely cost more than we’d make from a sale. Can’t see there being any profit to be made from a sale.

If sold it would be down avoid losIng him on a free next season.

That said you’d be a brave/mad/silly player to play the Bosman game given the uncertain global outlook.

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26 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

In the current financial climate it would be sensible all round to extend his deal unless he has a better offer.

Replacing him carries a risk and the cost will either be more or like for like but most likely cost more than we’d make from a sale. Can’t see there being any profit to be made from a sale.

If sold it would be down avoid losIng him on a free next season.

That said you’d be a brave/mad/silly player to play the Bosman game given the uncertain global outlook.

Yeah, so many lenses to view this one through isn’t there?  I just wanna know where it all stands.

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1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Why do you have to build a side around Wells? He's got a slightly better a scoring rate than Fam at this level (edit, turns out he doesn't and Fam has a better scoring record at this level.) , people get excited as he tends to bunch his goals together in certain seasons, yes he could potentially score 20 in a season, but he could also score less than 10 which he has done more than once at this level. 

14/15 - 11 goals in 33 games, 

15/16 - 17 in 45 games, 

16/17 - 10 in 46

17/18 - 7 in 40

18/19 - 7 in 40

19/20 - 18 in 43

246 games - 70 goals at 0.28 goals per game. 

Can someone point me to the 20 goals a. Season striker that you build your side around at 30?

17/18 - 13 in 32

18/19 - 13 in 41

19/20 - 12 in 41

114 games 38 goals at 0.33 goals per game. 

At 27 there is only one forward that we should be building our side around, should you choose to build your side around a striker and it is Fam every time and by a country mile, stick him in a side that is built around him and I think he could be prolific. 

Lewandowski. 

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51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Answer: you don’t have to.  I’m not suggesting building a team around him, but I’ve also seen little evidence (on the whole) that Diedhiou has built a partnership with anyone in his 3 years here either, not even Reid.  I’m assuming we will go two up top, and I think we might have better luck creating a pair that includes Wells that fits the team better than a pair that includes Diedhiou.  I’ve never mentioned a necessity for 20 goals either.  I’d rather have a team that all chips in.  Holden got good productive numbers out of a midfield that included Weimann (4 assists) and Paterson (2 goals / 1 assist) in a mall sample.

But isn't that down to opportunity? How many games has Weimann played with him in a genuine two? 

He never got a run alongside Taylor or Djuric and I think both of them could have been great partners for him in different ways. 

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7 minutes ago, Red Alert said:

It must be in his hands, the club would have done the maths & know tying Fam down for longer is the prudent option.

Corrected that for you, there are some Americanisms I just can't condone sorry. :) 

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9 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

But isn't that down to opportunity? How many games has Weimann played with him in a genuine two? 

He never got a run alongside Taylor or Djuric and I think both of them could have been great partners for him in different ways. 

Funny you mention Taylor and Djuric.  In the couple of games Fam partnered Taylor, it looked really positive...unfortunately Taylor had several niggly injuries.  I think Fam only partnered Djuric once, v Brum (h 3-1 Joe Bryan RB).

Re Weimann, for me this was down to LJ tactics that said “Fam - you must stay in the midfield of the pitch so we know where to hit long, desperate passes.  Andi - you have to run everywhere else.”  Ok, I simplify, but Fam never ran a channel, was easy to mark, and it was probably his worst spell in 3 seasons with us.

Sometimes players click, sometimes they don’t.  Sometimes they work as a pair in one system and not another.

We aren’t the pros, but you do wonder what the pros see sometimes 😂

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13 hours ago, Red Skin said:

Personally, I'd let Fam leave but I'm desperate to keep Eliasson.

Although Holden is keen on 352 given our current squad, with right signings we could also play a 433/451 in some games.

Probably unpopular but still can see O'Dowda and Eliasson in a front 3 with quick striker in the middle.  

If we can get Eliasson and O'Dowda away quickly and crossing early (think Coppell and Hill at Man Urd for the oldies) then you don't need a giant up front.  Just someone that make the right runs and quick enough to be on the end of it.

Fammy is more important to the team then elliaison imo, a striker like him will be much more expensive and harder to replace

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2 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Why do you have to build a side around Wells? He's got a slightly better a scoring rate than Fam at this level (edit, turns out he doesn't and Fam has a better scoring record at this level.) , people get excited as he tends to bunch his goals together in certain seasons, yes he could potentially score 20 in a season, but he could also score less than 10 which he has done more than once at this level. 

14/15 - 11 goals in 33 games, 

15/16 - 17 in 45 games, 

16/17 - 10 in 46

17/18 - 7 in 40

18/19 - 7 in 40

19/20 - 18 in 43

246 games - 70 goals at 0.28 goals per game. 

Can someone point me to the 20 goals a. Season striker that you build your side around at 30?

17/18 - 13 in 32

18/19 - 13 in 41

19/20 - 12 in 41

114 games 38 goals at 0.33 goals per game. 

At 27 there is only one forward that we should be building our side around, should you choose to build your side around a striker and it is Fam every time and by a country mile, stick him in a side that is built around him and I think he could be prolific. 

I'm not convinced Wells was used as a striker in those season's he scored single digits. I'm sure he has been utilised out wide in the past. 

Playing up front, down the middle, in a side that creates chances Wells scores around 20 goals this season for me. 

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31 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Fammy is more important to the team then elliaison imo, a striker like him will be much more expensive and harder to replace

Maybe more important because we haven't utilised Eliasson properly and he's still contributed a phenomenal numbers of assist for his minutes played.  Eliasson is more exciting which is what I want from my football.

I don't want a striker like Fam.  That's my issue.  For his type he's good, but he's just not my type.  All the best to him though.

With three centre backs we'll have a extra head for corners, and hopefully Williams can defend them too.  

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