Midfield headache

[BLRed]

It seems Bakinson has put his name in the hat for first team football with us this season too.

with the new signing of Williams, that adds to bakinson, Walsh, Nagy, morrell and massengo all fighting for the central three positions.

someone out of those 6 will surely need to make way (loan out or transfer) morrell and Walsh are desperate to play regularly for us, massengo I expect to be more regular, Williams hasn’t come to warm the bench, Nagy would be an expensive bench player too and bakinson today at least has shown he is capable, albeit it was Cheltenham in a friendly.

could it be that Nagy or morrell end up departing for regular football or can we accommodate all of them and keep them happy?

[SBB]

Definitely thrown us off a bit after yesterday’s midfield debate. Maybe they were using the friendly to showcase Bakinson for a potential loan move, although I assumed he’d be heading back to Plymouth.

[Bris Red]

Would be a shame to lose Nagy. I Genuinely think he will be a top player at this level.

[MATT BCFC]

I am expecting to see Walsh and Nagy leave to be honest. Both two of the higher earners out of our options there and both probably the least suited to Holden's high energy and high pressing game. 

 

[tin]

If DH’s plan A is 3-5-2, for me I’d start with Morrell, Williams and Walsh in the middle of the park and rotate Massengo and Nagy.

It’s worth remembering Nagy didn’t have a pre-season last year and I think he’ll come good. He’s also said to be leading the pre-season fitness charts. 

That said, we are top heavy. Szmodics, Palmer, Paterson and Weimann (the last two are both 29 and OOC in the summer) are all vulnerable for me, although I’d like to keep Palmer and Szmodics. 

League One loans for Bakinson and Morton.

[RedRoss]

8 minutes ago, tin said:

If DH’s plan A is 3-5-2, for me it would be Morrell, Williams and Walsh in the middle of the park. Massengo and Nagy in reserve for rotation.

It’s worth remembering Nagy didn’t have a pre-season last year and I think he’ll come good. He’s also said to be leading the pre-season fitness charts. 

That said, we are top heavy. Paterson, Szmodics, Palmer, Weimann all vulnerable for me, although I’d like to keep Palmer and Szomidics. 

League One loans for Bakinson and Morton.

 

Although I do agree on the choice of players, how do you fit JM, JW and LW and either KP or SS?

Move them up to a striker role or just behind Wells ect?

[redpole]

33 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

It seems Bakinson has put his name in the hat for first team football with us this season too.

with the new signing of Williams, that adds to bakinson, Walsh, Nagy, morrell and massengo all fighting for the central three positions.

someone out of those 6 will surely need to make way (loan out or transfer) morrell and Walsh are desperate to play regularly for us, massengo I expect to be more regular, Williams hasn’t come to warm the bench, Nagy would be an expensive bench player too and bakinson today at least has shown he is capable, albeit it was Cheltenham in a friendly.

could it be that Nagy or morrell end up departing for regular football or can we accommodate all of them and keep them happy?

I think you mean 2 out of that list along with Rowe as DH likes to have an attacking midfielder in the number 10 role in his 3-5-2. So for that role you can add Eliasson, Paterson, Szmodics, O’Dowda and Palmer fighting for 1 role. 
 

some tough decisions ahead for DH as he says he needs to trim his squad. 

[tin]

2 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

Although I do agree on the choice of players, how do you fit JM, JW and LW and either KP or SS?

Move them up to a striker role or just behind Wells ect?

Szmodics I see more as a replacement for Weimann. Palmer I’d play off Wells. 

That’s just my opinion. Trashton might well see it very differently. 

[Redrascal2]

49 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

It seems Bakinson has put his name in the hat for first team football with us this season too.

with the new signing of Williams, that adds to bakinson, Walsh, Nagy, morrell and massengo all fighting for the central three positions.

someone out of those 6 will surely need to make way (loan out or transfer) morrell and Walsh are desperate to play regularly for us, massengo I expect to be more regular, Williams hasn’t come to warm the bench, Nagy would be an expensive bench player too and bakinson today at least has shown he is capable, albeit it was Cheltenham in a friendly.

could it be that Nagy or morrell end up departing for regular football or can we accommodate all of them and keep them happy?

I just hope Morrell and Walsh get a chance. Whose to say they are not better than Nagy and Massengo. Our midfield last year was weak. I also hope all the players will genuinely start on how they perform and not on seniority or how much they cost.

[BCFCGav]

The players listed are fighting for 2 positions, not 3. The advanced midfielder surely needs to be Palmer or Paterson. Or Szmodics. I suggested loaning out Morrell in another thread but popular opinion seemed to be keeping 5 for two positions! Maybe Walsh can play the 10 role but can’t see Nagy, HNM, Morrell playing there. 

[DT The Optimist]

When you consider there was 'discord' and 'upset' among the faithful on OTIB with the departure of Korey, but now clear why.  Would not have made the bench even !

While you can rightly put the case forward that MORRELL and WALSH are untested at Championship level, they both excelled last season, with Morrell being an International. After the rave reviews re Walsh I will be disappointed if he is not given a chance  but perhaps HM will be the one to get less game time ?  With the arrival of Williams we might actually be blessed now in midfield. 

[Davefevs]

A long time between now and mid-Oct when the window closes....4 league games, at least 1 cup game.  A lot can happen.

[WECANDO]

1 hour ago, tin said:

If DH’s plan A is 3-5-2, for me I’d start with Morrell, Williams and Walsh in the middle of the park and rotate Massengo and Nagy.

It’s worth remembering Nagy didn’t have a pre-season last year and I think he’ll come good. He’s also said to be leading the pre-season fitness charts. 

That said, we are top heavy. Szmodics, Palmer, Paterson and Weimann (the last two are both 29 and OOC in the summer) are all vulnerable for me, although I’d like to keep Palmer and Szmodics. 

League One loans for Bakinson and Morton.

Agree to the three and Nagy is a good player but keep Szmodics, Paterson and Weiman let Palmer go. Let’s give Bakinson and Morton a go in a preseason game and then decide. 

[WECANDO]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

The players listed are fighting for 2 positions, not 3. The advanced midfielder surely needs to be Palmer or Paterson. Or Szmodics. I suggested loaning out Morrell in another thread but popular opinion seemed to be keeping 5 for two positions! Maybe Walsh can play the 10 role but can’t see Nagy, HNM, Morrell playing there. 

Didn't Weiman play in that position in the last few games under Holden? Thought he played well there using his high energy to good effect. 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

I am expecting to see Walsh and Nagy leave to be honest. Both two of the higher earners out of our options there and both probably the least suited to Holden's high energy and high pressing game. 

 

Not so sure on Nagy. I may be wrong but I felt one of his biggest issues last year was he was frequently being asked to hold position rather than be more mobile. I can see covering the pitch and pressing players into mistakes being well within his wheelhouse.

[LondonBristolian]

Personally I want us to keep six options:

Williams or Morrell holding

Nagy or Massengo harassing 

Walsh or Paterson creating (assuming Eliasson leaves)

Maybe Bakinson in and around the squad as back up

That leaves Palmer, Szmodics, and O’Dowda as odd men out.

As @JonDolman says, one of Palmer or Szmodics (maybe the latter) could be back up to Weimann and maybe O’Dowda could be wing back cover but I would envisage two or three departures between now and October...

[tin]

COD needs to be moved on for me, if a buyer can be found. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

The players listed are fighting for 2 positions, not 3. The advanced midfielder surely needs to be Palmer or Paterson. Or Szmodics. I suggested loaning out Morrell in another thread but popular opinion seemed to be keeping 5 for two positions! Maybe Walsh can play the 10 role but can’t see Nagy, HNM, Morrell playing there. 

Thing with loaning out Morrell is that he is 23 now and a Welsh international who has done well in League One. If we aren’t able to use him now then I don’t see what changes in a year’s time to justify loaning him out.

For me, we need to either decide we want him in the squad or decide he needs a chance to start afresh elsewhere and prove himself. 

The fact he counts as a homegrown player has to count in his favour too as we need one in our matchday squad.

[MATT BCFC]

25 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Not so sure on Nagy. I may be wrong but I felt one of his biggest issues last year was he was frequently being asked to hold position rather than be more mobile. I can see covering the pitch and pressing players into mistakes being well within his wheelhouse.

I think he could play that role but I get the impression Holden isn't his biggest fan and like mentioned he's gonna be on a lot more than say Morrell and we could probably offload him abroad quite easily.

I may be completely wrong that's just the way I see it going. 

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

I am expecting to see Walsh and Nagy leave to be honest. Both two of the higher earners out of our options there and both probably the least suited to Holden's high energy and high pressing game. 

 

All about opinion of course?..........but I can see them both getting regular game time.  I don't understand why you think Walsh is one of the high wage earners?, it's simply not true.  We have a very busy ongoing season ahead, there will be injuries, some short term, some long.  We will need plenty of midfielders....if your looking for a high earner who might leave or go on loan, look no further than Kasey P?  PS. Anyhow Walsh is bound to score the winner against the Coventry side which made him player of the season in the opening game. 

[ScottishRed]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

All about opinion of course?..........but I can see them both getting regular game time.  I don't understand why you think Walsh is one of the high wage earners?, it's simply not true.  We have a very busy ongoing season ahead, there will be injuries, some short term, some long.  We will need plenty of midfielders....if your looking for a high earner who might leave or go on loan, look no further than Kasey P?  PS. Anyhow Walsh is bound to score the winner against the Coventry side which made him player of the season in the opening game. 

Anyone who wants to move KP on does not understand football - the lad is our ticket out of this league.

DH needs to find a way of making him the first name on the team sheet.

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

Anyone who wants to move KP on does not understand football - the lad is our ticket out of this league.

DH needs to find a way of making him the first name on the team sheet.

I undersrand footbal fine......most of the time.  I am not advocating that  KP be moved out, but as a high wage earner, and being mostly ignored by LJ,  he is vunerable and needs a run of games to show what a talented player he is, week in, week out? But he could get frustrated and want away if he is not involved enough? We have an overloaded midfield with everyone out to impress and hold down a place.  I just hope he does not get left behind. It really comes down to if Holden rates him, and gives him a chance?  I like KP, but thinking he is our ticket out of this league is a little optimistic, we need the whole squad to perform to a high standard.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ScottishRed said:

Anyone who wants to move KP on does not understand football - the lad is our ticket out of this league.

DH needs to find a way of making him the first name on the team sheet.

As big a fan as I am of KP, I don’t see DH building any system around one player.  For whatever reason, the reality is Paterson has pushed ahead of him in the second half of 2019/20.

Kasey needs to up his game.

Theres not much more to understand than that really.

 

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As big a fan as I am of KP, I don’t see DH building any system around one player.  For whatever reason, the reality is Paterson has pushed ahead of him in the second half of 2019/20.

Kasey needs to up his game.

Theres not much more to understand than that really.

 

I agree @Davefevs but KP is baller and we realy need to get the best out of him.

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Anyone who wants to move KP on does not understand football - the lad is our ticket out of this league.

DH needs to find a way of making him the first name on the team sheet.

Yes hes the only one who wants to attack .

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

For me it's always been what suits the style and system we go with. If it's a floating creative attacking midfielder with a double pivot behind him and movement up top, then Palmer is the man.

But I don't think Holden is going with that kind of set up.

Thing is....none of us know what kind of set up Deano has in mind and yesterday’s friendly didn’t really tell us anything. 

I think he said that he wants to set up using the players strengths but make of that what you will...........

[Curr Avon]

14 hours ago, MATT BCFC said:

I am expecting to see Walsh and Nagy leave to be honest. Both two of the higher earners out of our options there and both probably the least suited to Holden's high energy and high pressing game. 

 

I'm hoping that Liam is our star midfield playmaker next season. He's mobile, can ping a pass and shoots well. Why would we sell a star on the rise after his great League One winning exploits at Coventry?

[spudski]

I get the impression from listening to DH, that we are going to press higher up the pitch and look to nick the ball in the opposition's half...as well as play through the lines quicker and be continually looking to be on the front foot.

Somewhat to how we used to play.

That will mean a great level of fitness and a rotation of players...fatigue and injury to be accounted for.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells, Weimann centrally like yesterday and Pato in behind them.

 

 

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

I'm hoping that Liam is our star midfield playmaker next season. He's mobile, can ping a pass and shoots well. Why would we sell a star on the rise after his great League One winning exploits at Coventry?

I’m always intrigued that so many posters talk about Walsh as playmaker, and so few talk about Paterson, who was our best creative source post-January.  15 starts / 5 subs....6 goals / 2 assists.  Technically our best player imho. 

12 minutes ago, spudski said:

I get the impression from listening to DH, that we are going to press higher up the pitch and look to nick the ball in the opposition's half...as well as play through the lines quicker and be continually looking to be on the front foot.

Somewhat to how we used to play.

That will mean a great level of fitness and a rotation of players...fatigue and injury to be accounted for.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wells, Weimann centrally like yesterday and Pato in behind them.

 

 

Thought yesterday’s 4th goal was a really good example of winning the ball and passing forward.  Hunt picked up a stray pass, and pinging early into Wells, who set up Weimann.  I keep saying it but Wells makes really early proactive runs.  Yesterday was only Cheltenham (Lg2 Playoffs) but even his second and third goals show that if you pick his runs he can be lethal.

[spudski]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m always intrigued that so many posters talk about Walsh as playmaker, and so few talk about Paterson, who was our best creative source post-January.  15 starts / 5 subs....6 goals / 2 assists.  Technically our best player imho. 

Thought yesterday’s 4th goal was a really good example of winning the ball and passing forward.  Hunt picked up a stray pass, and pinging early into Wells, who set up Weimann.  I keep saying it but Wells makes really early proactive runs.  Yesterday was only Cheltenham (Lg2 Playoffs) but even his second and third goals show that if you pick his runs he can be lethal.

I agree totally Dave. I also really slate Weimann...but in fairness to him I don't think he's been used to his best ability. He's most effective when central. Wide and deeper, much less so.

Wells, Weimann and Pato as a three pronged attacking force could be an effective offensive if we play how DH has suggested.

Nagy and Massengo give bags of energy behind them. 

Morrell, Walsh, Bakinson, less so, but all three read the game well and have good vision and passing. 

If we can read the game, intercept, and give and go quickly from deeper in midfield like I'm hoping with the players to hand we could do, then it could be exciting to watch.

The Bakinson move where he read and intercepted and gave quickly yesterday was exactly how I hope we play.