City vs Swindon

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We weren’t with Rowe for the first half of last season .

He did a very decent job there.

He did really well in the circumstances but I don't think any Championship club would have him as anything other than a desperate measures left wing back option.

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

O’Dowda ?

No, he doesn't have the defensive qualities. 

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think it's simply down to selection issues elsewhere. I don't really see where O'Dowda fits in a 3/5/2 so if I were manager I'd look to get rid. He may be trying him there in friendly games, you might be right - my hunch would be that in the cut and thrust of league games he'd make a more cautious selection of Rowe as LWB where possible

Agreed. 
Where does O’Dowda fit in a 3-5-2?
He’s certainly not good enough for one of the 2 central mid roles and I don’t think good enough for the advanced midfield role. Nor can he be one of the 2 up top. 
Only leaves the WB role for him. 
He certainly has the energy to play there but I highly highly question his defensive capabilities. 
Nothing wrong with giving him a go there but I don’t think it’s something he’ll thrive at. 

In the Holden formation COD is basically a 3rd choice LWB, a 4th choice AM or a 9th choice CM. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Not at all.

Any of us who sees a player play well will think they at least might be good in that position. It's possible, as they played well!

I've seen O'Dowda play well, and certainly not badly at wing back. So I don't see why I'd think any differently about him at least until seeing him struggle there.

I don't rate Rowe at wing back. And he did only play a short period of one game at centre back, but all I could see was he looked more comfortable in that brief spell. It seems to suit him.

Again, can't say he's bad at centre back. He might well be not good enough there, maybe we will see. But I don't like him at wing back and his strength and ability in the air might be more suited centrally.

 

 

 

The question for me is why you don’t rate Rowe at LWB?  For a guy a lot of people were saying “best free signing” last season, who contributed Goal(s) and assists, and apart from the odd game where he got overloaded was absolutely fine defensively.  As I’ve said before, any full-back will find it difficult if their opposing winger gets lots of 1on1’s or overloaded.  That’s a team shape / work issue...not an individual (unless he is hopelessly out of his depth - which can’t be applied to Rowe).

[The Fat Controller]

Just now, JonDolman said:

Not at all.

Any of us who sees a player play well will think they at least might be good in that position. It's possible, as they played well!

I've seen O'Dowda play well, and certainly not badly at wing back. So I don't see why I'd think any differently about him at least until seeing him struggle there.

I don't rate Rowe at wing back. And he did only play a short period of one game at centre back, but all I could see was he looked more comfortable in that brief spell. It seems to suit him.

Again, can't say he's bad at centre back. He might well be not good enough there, maybe we will see. But I don't like him at wing back and his strength and ability in the air might be more suited centrally.

 

 

 

You decided against Rowe despite him playing very well for a large part of last season and take every opportunity to tell everyone that you don't rate him. He didn't struggle there at all.

You also seem to have decided to that O'Dowda is great despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. 

It's fine to have opinions, even ones that go against the grain or are in the minority but I have to absolutely agree with @Phileas Fogg here.

 

[Davefevs]

1-1 Payne

[And Its Smith]

12 minutes ago, mozo said:

He did really well in the circumstances but I don't think any Championship club would have him as anything other than a desperate measures left wing back option.

No, he doesn't have the defensive qualities. 

Done well there before 

[IAmNick]

For me it's about more than just their footballing skill.

If we're going to have players like Moore and Vyner in the back line, or maybe Morrell and Walsh in the middle I'd much prefer Rowe playing next to them at WB than O'Dowda.

[Redrascal2]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I'm talking about best 11 if everyone is ever fit. Or more realistically when all in one position are fit..I can't see then where Weimann will be starting with Fam and Wells up top and all the midfield options we now have.

On Rowe I don't rate him at wing back. But whatever I think, it seems Holden is going with O'Dowda at left wing back cover to Dasilva.

If Rowe is seen as left centre back in a 3 then I'm not sure if he will be needed if rumours are true that we are looking to bring in another left sided centre back. It would then be new LCB or Baker. With Kalas, Moore and Vyner there too.

Rowe's best position is supposed to be midfield, but obviously very little chance of him being needed there either.

I either see him as emergency back up that probably won't play. Or moved on.

Just hope that Holden does not have the same fixation as LJ of always playing Weimann however poorly he is playing.

[Major Isewater]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

1-1 Payne

Holden Out 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Too slow for me..doesn't get up and down the line well enough and too slow defensively. Occasionally decent when he does get forward and has a decent left foot. But not the required standard imo. Even as back up. Teams were targeting him in some games last season.

...and if O’Dowda starts there....teams won’t target him?  That’s when you’ll see how exposed a WB can be!

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

...and if O’Dowda starts there....teams won’t target him?  That’s when you’ll see how exposed a WB can be!

Teams would target both O'Dowda and Rowe as wing backs, and I also think they would with Vyner or Moore.

Rowe as centre back would also be identified as a weakness.

I'm sure they'd all do their best, but we're supposed to be competing for promotion to the Premier League, not just being satisfied that we have players that will willingly do odd jobs.

[WarksRobin]

 

 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

Teams would target both O'Dowda and Rowe as wing backs, and I also think they would with Vyner or Moore.

Rowe as centre back would also be identified as a weakness.

I'm sure they'd all do their best, but we're supposed to be competing for promotion to the Premier League, not just being satisfied that we have players that will willingly do odd jobs.

That’s why Dasilva is first choice!

[westonred]

Finished 1-1 poor result but with the same squad that struggled for large parts of last season it's to be expected .

I feel we still need 4 new players 2 strikers 1 big un and a poacher 1 RWB/RB and 1 ball playing CH

[Phileas Fogg]

43 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Not at all.

Any of us who sees a player play well will think they at least might be good in that position. It's possible, as they played well!

I've seen O'Dowda play well, and certainly not badly at wing back. So I don't see why I'd think any differently about him at least until seeing him struggle there.

I don't rate Rowe at wing back. And he did only play a short period of one game at centre back, but all I could see was he looked more comfortable in that brief spell. It seems to suit him.

Again, can't say he's bad at centre back. He might well be not good enough there, maybe we will see. But I don't like him at wing back and his strength and ability in the air might be more suited centrally.

You've got a bit of a thing about Weimann too which led to me saying that. I think we're all guilty of it to an extent, you could argue I am too about O'Dowda.

I don't think anyone is advocating Rowe being a first choice player in any role, just that he can play a number of roles in a 5-3-2 whereas O'Dowda can't and that over the course of a season he might end up a more valuable player than O'Dowda. 

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

1-0 Weimann

Can’t be - he only runs around a lot!

[HomerRed]

Glad it was entertaining anyway

[mozo]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s why Dasilva is first choice!

Yeah I'm just concerned that we have 1st choices, 3rd choices, but whereas my 2nd choice?! 

In fact, RWB we have 2nd choice, 3rd choice, but where's a proper 1st choice RWB?!

[Shaun Taylor]

1 minute ago, HomerRed said:

Glad it was entertaining anyway

 

We got Brentford in an hour

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, JonDolman said:

I just answered replies to my original message that Holden is playing O'Dowda wing back and Rowe centre back, that's all.

I don't think Rowe played well in many of the games, and is too slow for left wing back. It really is as simple as that.

Can you give examples of him playing really well? Specific games?

I'd probably get rid of him and a few others, we have a big squad.

Where did I say O'Dowda is great? You've just completely made that up.

Why would you get rid of Rowe? I doubt he's anywhere near our highest earner, probably one of the lowest, has pretty much no sell on value and is a highly experienced member of the squad. That's before taking into account that he can fill in a variety of positions (not many other players can) and that we have a congested season with lots of games.

I respect your opinion, but I really don't follow the logic here. Obviously Rowe wouldn't be first choice, but there's almost no positives that I can see in getting rid of him. If we had 3 or 4 other better utility players then I might understand - but we don't!

[mozo]

So the big question... Should we be concerned?

Just a friendly, minutes in legs, not our strongest 11.

But equally that's the highest ranking opponent we will play ahead of Coventry. And they're a rival!

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

So the big question... Should we be concerned?

Just a friendly, minutes in legs, not our strongest 11.

But equally that's the highest ranking opponent we will play ahead of Coventry. And they're a rival!

Not really. Just a friendly, players getting used to the system and a chance for the coaches to tweak things. Obviously you'd rather we won, but in the scheme of things pre-season doesn't really count for a lot.

The main thing at this stage is fitness and not picking up too many injuries. Our forwards are scoring too so that's a positive. 

[Redrascal2]

40 minutes ago, westonred said:

Finished 1-1 poor result but with the same squad that struggled for large parts of last season it's to be expected .

I feel we still need 4 new players 2 strikers 1 big un and a poacher 1 RWB/RB and 1 ball playing C

 

[Redrascal2]

Of course we don't know what is going on behind the scenes but at the moment we go in to a new season with the same squad virtually as last season. One in and the loanees out. If we plan to bring in a few fresh faces then let's not take as long as the recruitment of Holden. I cannot see how Holden with the same squad is going to out perform last season. Let's hope the irons in the fire are hot and have not melted 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

55 minutes ago, mozo said:

Teams would target both O'Dowda and Rowe as wing backs, and I also think they would with Vyner or Moore.

Rowe as centre back would also be identified as a weakness.

I'm sure they'd all do their best, but we're supposed to be competing for promotion to the Premier League, not just being satisfied that we have players that will willingly do odd jobs.

I'm shocked that teams may target our wing backs. How dare they make efforts to get behind our defence. 

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Teams would target both O'Dowda and Rowe as wing backs, and I also think they would with Vyner or Moore.

Rowe as centre back would also be identified as a weakness.

I'm sure they'd all do their best, but we're supposed to be competing for promotion to the Premier League, not just being satisfied that we have players that will willingly do odd jobs.

Whatever next....

Teams might even try and score against us.

[WarksRobin]

 

[mozo]

13 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Whatever next....

Teams might even try and score against us.

Uhhh yeah so probably best avoid having a glaring weakness!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I just answered replies to my original message that Holden is playing O'Dowda wing back and Rowe centre back, that's all.

I don't think Rowe played well in many of the games, and is too slow for left wing back. It really is as simple as that.

Can you give examples of him playing really well? Specific games?

I'd probably get rid of him and a few others, we have a big squad.

Where did I say O'Dowda is great? You've just completely made that up.

So, here’s the games Tommy Rowe and Callum O’Dowda started at LWB / LB last season.

Jon - you pick up on one thing that Callum might do to justify him “playing well”, yet on the flip side, just saying things like “no pace” or whatever to justify poor performances.  Ever stopped to think why Tommy Rowe got picked over Callum O’Dowda in all those games last season?  Because he’s better equipped to play there in the head-coach’s eyes.  You miss things on Callum like positional sense, runs behind him because he ball watches, not sure which foot to show an opponent onto.  In four seasons here he’s had two spells of decent performances (17/18 pre-injury and 18/19 in the 451/4411).

In terms of performances that I thought were better than 6/10 (remember I’m a tough judge), I’d go:

Birmingham, Derby, Swansea, Charlton, Fulham.

Those were full games, not 20 minutes in a shape change!

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

I haven't a bit of a thing about Weimann at all or Rowe, or anyone that tries their hardest. I just say who I rate and who I don't.

I said I'd have Weimann in the team up front, so I clearly rate him in some ways, but with a Palmer type in behind and Wells alongside him like earlier last season that had Afobe.

I do think he has some weaknesses though as well as his strengths so the wrong set up and he plays poorly and shouldn't be in the team.

Jon, you find any excuse to shoehorn them into a defence of another player, or to just be critical of them.  You will say Weimann has never formed a partnership with Diedhiou as being a criticism of Weimann.  You never suggest it could be the other way around, or something else.

 

[wendyredredrobin]

1 hour ago, WarksRobin said:

 

 

Entertaining for who?