And Its Smith Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, chinapig said: If it wasn't the cheap option then presumably we are paying Dean as much as we would have paid somebody with a proven track record. Otherwise it would indeed be the cheap, or at least cheaper, option. Might still be the right choice of course and if he makes the top 6 with the players at his disposal he will deserve a hefty pay rise. Need to consider that the two assistants will be on good wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 46 minutes ago, glos old boy said: Exactly why not give DH a 5yr contract straight up if he was so sure he has what it takes to take us up? and the bit where he reels of the money spent on us and the rugger boys and the far, far, far, far different in stadium money £50million (or whatever it was) and money being spent on training facilities etc; well Bristol Rugby play in the stadium as well its not ours, far from it, and they too have also new training facilities; so not that different. Lots of mention of Dean Ashton as well who seems to be running the show and has his feet well under the table. You’ve completely got the wrong end of the stick here. He was saying money spent on the football club far far far outweighs what’s been spent on the rugby club. Not facilities . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Need to consider that the two assistants will be on good wages Indeed, but the same would have been the case if a proven Head Coach had been appointed and brought his own assistants with him. I'm not looking to revive the debate about the appointment, just taking Steve at his word. Of course an interviewer not employed by the club might have asked a follow up question to test Steve's claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Need to consider that the two assistants will be on good wages No appointment is ever "cheap" however Holden was about the "cheapest" appointment we could've made, given he is being promoted from a more junior position. Possibly a manager from L2 may have been a bit cheaper. The two assistants replace two other assistants. They were youth coaches at the FA and won't have been on mega-bucks, by a long stretch. Holden and his hastily thrown together team are a cheaper option than others which were available, however SL may try to spin it. I don't think the only reason they were appointed was because they were cheap mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: No appointment is ever "cheap" however Holden was about the "cheapest" appointment we could've made, given he is being promoted from a more junior position. Possibly a manager from L2 may have been a bit cheaper. The two assistants replace two other assistants. They were youth coaches at the FA and won't have been on mega-bucks, by a long stretch. Holden and his hastily thrown together team are a cheap, however SL may try to spin it. I don't think the only reason they were appointed was because they were cheap mind. Fans suggesting it was the cheap option believe that the best option would mean a different team in place. It is possible that the best option can be one of the cheaper ones available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I don't think the only reason they were appointed was because they were cheap mind. Agreed. There’s a very key reason. Path of least resistance at the expense of best chance of promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: That’s frankly absurd. As someone says elsewhere, every question that needed to be asked was asked, though maybe not in the way that you would have liked. Though, given that this was a BCFC interview, we might have expected that the interviewer would at least have been polite and respectful. That’s Dave Barton, head of comms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, JonDolman said: I can't think of any more difficult questions that could be asked? In fact I don't think there are any difficult questions to answer. He was asked about the time it took to appoint a head coach and on appointing Holden and not a 'proven manager.' And the interviewer said about how some fans think it is the cheap option, and how some fans think he spends more on Bristol Bears. All pretty easy to explain, just like Ashton did in Twentyman interview. The difference is, an impartial interviewer would have asked follow up questions to his answers. I felt there were times I’d have liked him to have been pressed further on some points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: No appointment is ever "cheap" however Holden was about the "cheapest" appointment we could've made, given he is being promoted from a more junior position. Possibly a manager from L2 may have been a bit cheaper. The two assistants replace two other assistants. They were youth coaches at the FA and won't have been on mega-bucks, by a long stretch. Holden and his hastily thrown together team are a cheaper option than others which were available, however SL may try to spin it. I don't think the only reason they were appointed was because they were cheap mind. ‘Hastily thrown together’? I thought the complaint was all about how long it took to make the appointments. Make your mind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, JonDolman said: It isn't the cheap option as him being on less than someone else was not a factor. He appointed Holden because what he proposed was better than the other candidates. I have never believed Lansdown would choose to save money by appointing someone on less to save money whilst spending ridiculous amounts on the club. It's ridiculous to even think he has done that imo. And does anyone even know how much Holden is on? Which renders Steve using the phrase cheap option rather meaningless it seems to me. If it means anything it is that different candidates would have expected different salaries. That doesn't mean the appointment was wrong but it would be disingenuous to say Dean wasn't the cheaper option given the salary expectations of a proven candidate. Fwiw, I couldn't see Hughton getting the job from the minute it was reported that he was interested in the job if he got the right backing. I took that to mean money to spend, which was never going to happen. Nothing to do with salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: You can lead a horse (fan) to water (explanation) but you cannot make him drink (understand) You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, true. Especially if the horse has been promised pure spring water but only finds the same stale offerings in a slightly different pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: ‘Hastily thrown together’? I thought the complaint was all about how long it took to make the appointments. Make your mind up! They were approached and signed up in about three days after the board had decided to appoint Holden, after 5 weeks of procrastinating. So yes, "hastily thrown together". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, RedM said: You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, true. Especially if the horse has been promised pure spring water but only finds the same stale offerings in a slightly different pond. But that's not what it referred to though, the point wasn't talking about the manager debate it was about how the football clubs wages are 4/5 times that of the rugby club but fans moan that Steve's attention is on rugby rather than football and he can't invest more in football than he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, markcarter said: “When you say that it was novice Holden’s impressive proposals for the team that clinched the job for him over many highly experienced managers, what are those impressive proposals please? They must be amazing.” Indeed. Ashton said Dean had a clear vision for the team that helped him clinch the job. I don't see why we couldn't be told what that vision is. It seems an obvious question to ask and should be easy to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Lrrr said: The only one I thought that could have been asked was 'why only a 12 month contract for Dean' but the answer is obvious and didn't really need to be out loud, so there wasn't a need for Steve to say it It’s not a 12m contract - it’s rolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rob k said: It’s not a 12m contract - it’s rolling A 12 month rolling contract. A lot cheaper than offering someone a 3 or 4 year contract. But Holden's definitely not a cheap option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: A 12 month rolling contract. A lot cheaper than offering someone a 3 or 4 year contract. But Holden's definitely not a cheap option. Why would we offer an unproven manager a 3-4 year contract? Would be a weird business decision. Bear in mind that just because they think this team is the best way for the club to go doesnt mean it will be a definite success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Lrrr said: The only one I thought that could have been asked was 'why only a 12 month contract for Dean' but the answer is obvious and didn't really need to be out loud, so there wasn't a need for Steve to say it It’s a rolling contract, which I understood was the most common in football management these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: the interviewer would at least have been polite and respectful. The interviewer looked terrified to ask the questions. If he had a cap he would have doffed it . Made me think of Ted. I wouldn’t know about that sir . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Why would we offer an unproven manager a 3-4 year contract? Would be a weird business decision. Bear in mind that just because they think this team is the best way for the club to go doesnt mean it will be a definite success. I wholeheartedly agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, eric04 said: That’s Dave Barton, head of comms Well if he’s the head ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 minute ago, JonDolman said: He can't give away exactly what Holden plans to do surely? I'm sure he'd make a general point on what Holden plans, which is not what the others were proposing. I really do believe that. I think Holden won't be demanding a lot of money in this window. And I believe Holden will be giving our youth a chance whilst playing good football, which I believe suits many of our players too rather than LJ negative football. That's only a guess, but its what Lansdown would want i think. Explaining what the vision Dean is said to have is not the same as giving detailed tactical information away. Not that there any real tactical secrets in football. A vision is by definition an overarching thing and rather general so shouldn't be hard to explain. If it impressed the recruitment panel presumably it would impress fans as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: That’s frankly absurd. As someone says elsewhere, every question that needed to be asked was asked, though maybe not in the way that you would have liked. Though, given that this was a BCFC interview, we might have expected that the interviewer would at least have been polite and respectful. SL has had all the time in the world to think through his response to the supporters. I’m not even sure it was worth even doing this interview. Probably set the agenda himself. Nothing he said was a surprise or gave any real substance to the 3 Musketeers being the best choice, solution, option etc, etc. Its all bo!!ocks any way. If the team do well then great. If the team are bang average then I guess they will go with them again. If the team struggle with any sort of relegation battle then what? I don’t think any fan wants to go through another elongated ‘interviews process’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoss Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 I argued the same points to people on here at the time of Dean's appointment about Steve's financial commitment to the club that he settled on that interview. How can anyone question his investments in our club? He clarified you don't make money in football this is his personal wealth invested and he's treated us well in that respect. I really do think some fans think their ticket money and pie and pint on the concourse would be able to sustain us without his money. Whether the decision was correct for the club appointing Dean only time will tell but I genuinely believe SL believes he made the right decision. It wasn't to do with money I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, And Its Smith said: Need to consider that the two assistants will be on good wages How much do you think they might be on? Given that we have seen some academy coaching roles advertised at less than the national average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Wood Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Was it called a cider with Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Interesting line about the “answer being on our doorstep” regarding Holden. Why then did it take 6 weeks to realise that, when you’ve had 4 years plus to realise that? And what does it say about the candidate if they’re happy to sit in the background for 4 years plus? And what does it say about every other club that no one unearthed him after in the 6 years plus he’s been coaching? And the only reason he’s got a championship managers job is ‘right place at the right time’. I’m not calling it the cheap option, but I just wish SL had come out and spoken more honestly in that interview because I neither agree or believe a lot of what he said there. It’s not an ambitious appointment, it’s not a breath of fresh air. Personally when I see DH do an interview all I still see is “the assistant Johnson sent out when he couldn’t be bothered to do the media” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: How much do you think they might be on? Given that we have seen some academy coaching roles advertised at less than the national average. Most staff jobs in football are under the national average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 It’s an internal club interview....I’m not sure what people are expecting. He answered the Rugby v Football question....and as many of us have been saying, if you think he spends more on Rugby....he doesn’t. I thought the one bit of interest was being a tad critical of comms...to the man in the charge of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 One thing is for sure, Lansdown will be judged by many on this appointment. He can come up with any explanation in as cogent a manner as he likes, it’s results not excuses that will count. Top 6 will be a huge credit, mid table with improved football will be par for the course and anything below mid table obscurity, i.e. a relegation scrap, will ultimately be judged a very poor failure by the Board and unfortunately give evidence to people who think they (or at least a couple of them) are bullshitters who talk crap to sell tickets...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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