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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

 

The quote above is from you, please excuse my computer skills - or lack thereof.  I am the one who would not swap. Please try to be consistent.

You know what I was talking about  but have decided to twist it as you cannot bear people debating / challenging your myopic view of the clubs leadership, which it seems is based purely upon balance sheets, infrastructure and finances, which is your prerogative of course.  Must be a dull world though. Enjoy. 

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3 minutes ago, lenred said:

You know what I was talking about  but have decided to twist it as you cannot bear people debating / challenging your myopic view of the clubs leadership, which it seems is based purely upon balance sheets, infrastructure and finances, which is your prerogative of course.  Must be a dull world though. Enjoy. 

Oscar Wilde wrote a short story of someone who melted down the statue of "the pleasure that abideth forever" and had it recast as a statue of "the pleasure that abideth for a moment" (or something like that)  - I know that it is meant to convey a very different message, but there is a similarity. SL is trying to create a football club that is welll funded and sustainable - the pleasure that abideth forever.  Apart from a brief frisson of pleasure, the other type of football club may offer slim pickings for their supporters over the long haul.  I reckon that we are pretty well set and we have a great future.

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5 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Oscar Wilde wrote a short story of someone who melted down the statue of "the pleasure that abideth forever" and had it recast as a statue of "the pleasure that abideth for a moment" (or something like that)  - I know that it is meant to convey a very different message, but there is a similarity. SL is trying to create a football club that is welll funded and sustainable - the pleasure that abideth forever.  Apart from a brief frisson of pleasure, the other type of football club may offer slim pickings for their supporters over the long haul.  I reckon that we are pretty well set and we have a great future.

Depends on your definition of ‘pleasure’  - Wilde also said: ‘To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.’  Sums up what I’ve been trying to say but depends on your view. I very much look forward to this great future you are so certain is going to happen for us and SL and DH taking us to this pleasure that lasts forever! 

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Just now, lenred said:

Depends on your definition of ‘pleasure’  - Wilde also said: ‘To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.’  Sums up what I’ve been trying to say but depends on your view. I very much look forward to this great future you are so certain is going to happen for us and SL and DH taking us to this pleasure that lasts forever! 

I am confident that we will both enjoy a great future!

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It's very telling that Lansdown chose to speak to Bristol City TV, and to wait for the frustration to calm down a bit before making an appearance.

I think he makes a lot of good points, and if things go well this will look like a masterstroke from Lansdown. However, I would hope that he is the first person in front of the cameras should this coming season turn out to be poor.

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3 hours ago, Dibdenred said:

Jamie was good friends with Lee. However Dean sought his opinion on shape and players and then went along with it. JM departure was not wholly Deans choice. Dean is a yes man. Perfect for MA and JL. Let’s hope his new assistants have some good ideas because you won’t get too many from Dean.

Evening Jamie.

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37 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Evening Jamie.

Sorry. Not Jamie. But if it makes it easier for you to believe it’s him that’s fine. Do you really think Jamie would bother to post on here.? It’s not about Jamie it’s about Dean. Anyone that’s worked with him recently knows that he is a yes man. That’s what we want so fair play. Let’s hope he does well. It will be more luck than judgement.

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9 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

We were a long way behind Wolves when they went up a few years ago. Their ground and support are pretty good and ours has improved.  The income that will flow into the club as a result of the infrastructure will be valuable for many years to come. I expect that Wigan and Bolton fans might think that boring and safe finances are something to be valued. Most people spend the whole of their lives struggling to end up with safe, boring and predictable finances. It will be a luxury compared to many of our competitors.  I will happily support City even if we do not go up and my support is not conditional upon a choice of manager, player, board member or promotion. It flows a little deeper than that.

Its not our ground we just play in it like others do, at a cost, we (the club) have no say on its occupants or its use.

What actual share does our club get from the catering/concerts corperate use etc? Can you give me a clue what this flow of income is/will be?

Many competitors have also passed us by while we just stay here nice and safe, persistantly cashing in on our assets and going no-where, nothing against our new manager (apart from his lack of exp) but there our so much better exp managers out there who could of put some fire and belief in the fans bellys, another chance for BCFC to make a mark....missed. 

Your last 2 sentences are a little superfan`ish imo, there are many fans who have/will follow our club all over the country and in all 4 divisions, whatever/forever.

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If you had some way of quantifying the historical achievement of each club (cup success and league positions) and of their potential (fan base, location, resources, stadium) then I reckon Bristol City would have the worst achievement/potential ratio of all 92 league clubs.

But it is something we have to put behind us and look to the future. I thought we had a really bright future in recent times. And then they announced the new coaching set up. If it works, and I really hope it does, it will either be a miracle or MA is a genius at assessing human potential and will deserve great credit.

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12 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Their scholarship will be paid for the academy as opposed to the 1st team though, education programmes aren't external (perhaps some are), they're on site taught by people employed by clubs. As said Antoine was not a scholar because a scholarship HAS to be 2 years, he was joining in what would have been the second year of a scholarship and therefore had to sign a pro deal to fit with his age, a scholarship wasn't an option.

I don't know of the technicalities, and whether you or Cowshed are correct. However given Semenyo was picked up playing senior "mens" football I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he's a product of the Bristol City Academy.

He might technically qualify as a home grown player but the Academy's influence on his career to date is negligible, and he is hardly a good example of justification of the existence of the Academy. 

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10 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

So would you change places with those clubs now?  Who do you think is most likely to have a good future - us or them?

I give you Cardiff and Swansea, two of our closest and most comparable rivals. 

Both below us in the league pyramid when SL took over Bristol City in 2001.

Compare their achievements to ours over the past 20 years. Quarter finals of a major european competition, two major cup final appearances, multiple seasons in the Premier League including top half finishes, multiple promotions to the Premier League. 

All done with a very similar level of investment to us, probably less in the case of Swansea.

Be interested to hear you, or indeed SL, argue your way out of that one.

To be clear, we aren't talking about both clubs being a little more successful than us, they have completely dwarfed our achievements since SL has been in charge, starting from a lower position. 

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57 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't know of the technicalities, and whether you or Cowshed are correct. However given Semenyo was picked up playing senior "mens" football I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he's a product of the Bristol City Academy.

He might technically qualify as a home grown player but the Academy's influence on his career to date is negligible, and he is hardly a good example of justification of the existence of the Academy. 

All I’m saying is he played for our 18’s, couldn’t sign a scholarship with 1 year left so had to be a pro deal, used the example of education, even if you move somewhere in the last year of education you still graduate from there. I’ve never said he’s a long term academy player or anything, who knows what he may have picked up in that last season.

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42 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

SL will be the first to admit the club made big mistakes over many years from when he took over.

As long as we have learnt from those mistakes, which to me it seems we have in how we now run the club.

How have we learnt from our mistakes jon over the years lansdown has given us lumsden osman fawthrop tinnion and millen and now holden i cant see how weve learnt from our mistakes 

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15 minutes ago, Banjo Island said:

How have we learnt from our mistakes jon over the years lansdown has given us lumsden osman fawthrop tinnion and millen and now holden i cant see how weve learnt from our mistakes 

Not that I am usually one to let facts get in the way of some mudslinging but laying the appointments of Lumsden and Osman at Lansdown’s door is mighty harsh!

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4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

In how we run the club. We have a clear philosophy now which has got us to where we are.

Just because some inexperienced managers failed doesn't mean this one will.

Plenty of examples of inexperienced managers doing superb jobs. So for me the way the club is run was the big thing that needed changing, which we have now done.

How has it changed ?

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32 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

In how we run the club. We have a clear philosophy now which has got us to where we are.

Just because some inexperienced managers failed doesn't mean this one will.

Plenty of examples of inexperienced managers doing superb jobs. So for me the way the club is run was the big thing that needed changing, which we have now done.

What’s this clear philosophy? Genuine question not trying to be funny as I see this a lot but to me it’s just words.  The only thing that’s clear to me is that we don’t have a clear philosophy. 

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3 minutes ago, lenred said:

What’s this clear philosophy? Genuine question not trying to be funny as I see this a lot but to me it’s just words.  The only thing that’s clear to me is that we don’t have a clear philosophy. 

As a club, sign young/undervalued players who can be developed and sold for profit being the main clear one with regard to recruitment 

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6 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

As a club, sign young/undervalued players who can be developed and sold for profit being the main clear one with regard to recruitment 

That’s not a club philosophy at all. That’s what all clubs try to do bar the really big players ie your Madrids, Juves, Manchester clubs etc. If SL valued that way of working so much he would get us to CAT1 status but he doesn’t as is his prerogative.  

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Sign young players, bring through youth.

If we don't make it to the prem then we sell some on for big profits which allows us to bring in more quality. Kalas and Wells for example being real quality, I assume brought in using funds from player sales.

It certainly is working imo when looking at the quality we have in our squad. And many of which will improve as they're young.

See above.  Signing young players in the hope of making a profit is not a philosophy. 

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1 minute ago, lenred said:

That’s not a club philosophy at all. That’s what all clubs try to do bar the really big players or your Madrids, Man I’d etc. If SL valued that way of working so much he would get us to CAT1 status but he doesn’t as is his prerogative.  

I can't see how CAT1 status would make any difference.

Kids would still go to bigger clubs as a preference and bigger clubs could still take kids from us.

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2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I can't see how CAT1 status would make any difference.

Kids would still go to bigger clubs as a preference and bigger clubs could still take kids from us.

Im no expert but one would presume that the coaching, the facilities and structure would need to be of a higher standard than it currently is, which in turn would attract better younger players and help to keep them, which in turn should mean more players of required standard coming through. If there’s no point to it why do other teams bother with it? 

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Just now, lenred said:

Im no expert but one would presume that the coaching, the facilities and structure would need to be of a higher standard than it currently is, which in turn would attract better younger players and help to keep them, which in turn should mean more players of required standard coming through. If there’s no point to it why do other teams bother with it? 

In order to nick the better kids off of CAT2/3 academies.

But as I said, and I'm no expert either, we are in a pecking order which probably dictates that 90% of CAT1 academies are at a lot bigger club than us and could easily take the better kids from us if they wish.

Couple that with another couple of million to set up and run - is it worth it ?

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1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

In order to nick the better kids off of CAT2/3 academies.

But as I said, and I'm no expert either, we are in a pecking order which probably dictates that 90% of CAT1 academies are at a lot bigger club than us and could easily take the better kids from us if they wish.

Couple that with another couple of million to set up and run - is it worth it ?

To be fair I have no idea on the finer details but one would hope and expect that the club has completed thorough due diligence as to the reasons why we don’t go for it. But my point was that if our ‘philosophy’ is developing youngsters to sell on we would surely invest in CAT1 status. As it is we don’t, and our aim to buy young and develop to sell at a profit is no different to any other team and thus this idea that we have some clear philosophy is just not true as far as I can see. 

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2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Costs loads doesn't it? And not really sure it would be worth it.

Our main aim seems to be bringing through local youth from a very young age through the age groups. As well as scouting local young talent that come to the club a bit later in Harvey Richards, Owura Edwards, Semenyo, Janneh etc.

And occasionally bringing in a Jonny Smith, Bakinson, Hinds type who are scouted from other parts of the country.

But I see us doing that less now we seem to be improving the quality coming through. Tinnion saying the next lot are really special. 

Costs loads?  One Joe Bryan or Lloyd Kelly......and it's paid for.  I do not see your logic?  CAT 1 is without doubt the way to go IMHO.

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3 hours ago, glos old boy said:

Its not our ground we just play in it like others do, at a cost, we (the club) have no say on its occupants or its use.

What actual share does our club get from the catering/concerts corperate use etc? Can you give me a clue what this flow of income is/will be?

Many competitors have also passed us by while we just stay here nice and safe, persistantly cashing in on our assets and going no-where, nothing against our new manager (apart from his lack of exp) but there our so much better exp managers out there who could of put some fire and belief in the fans bellys, another chance for BCFC to make a mark....missed. 

Your last 2 sentences are a little superfan`ish imo, there are many fans who have/will follow our club all over the country and in all 4 divisions, whatever/forever.

For strategic reasons the ground is owned by another company within the group and all have the same owners.  Nothing wrong with that at all. In unforeseen difficult circumstances this could prove very useful! 

You can hardly complain about the cash that SL puts into Bristol City and how he funds other clubs within the group.  You may have missed the times that he wrote off some pretty massive debts.

It is a long race and has not finished yet. We do not have the benefit of parachute payments and we have to live within the constraints of FFP.  The income from the various infrastructure initiatives should help us be even more competitive as time goes on.

I am not a super-fan but just an old duffer who loves his football club and finds it difficult to see why other fans adopt such negative attitudes towards every aspect of Bristol City instead of supporting enthusiastically.  I do not give conditional support as long as the club choose a manager or players that pass my personal tests of approval. I respect the highly intelligent board and owners and believe that they will do their best for the club after considering all the evidence. That does not mean that they will get everything right, because they are human beings, but I will not condemn them for any mistakes, just as I would not condemn a player for missing what looks like a simple chance. If you find such support offensive, then I think that you have more of a problem than I do. 

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15 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Costs loads doesn't it? And not really sure it would be worth it.

Our main aim seems to be bringing through local youth from a very young age through the age groups. As well as scouting local young talent that come to the club a bit later in Harvey Richards, Owura Edwards, Semenyo, Janneh etc.

And occasionally bringing in a Jonny Smith, Bakinson, Hinds type who are scouted from other parts of the country.

But I see us doing that less now we seem to be improving the quality coming through. Tinnion saying the next lot are really special. 

Am sure costs could be covered by selling a few.  We would have far more talented youth players coming through?  Still don't understand why not go for Cat 1.  

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5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Its not easy to produce those players consistently every season. Especially Kelly who is one of England's most promising centre backs. Under 21 regular.

The ones we sell from coming through academy or young signing sold for a profit is what pays our huge wage bill and is what generates transfer funds isn't it?

It seems hard enough as it is. But to go CAT 1 could really make things difficult financially. Though I am not one that really reads into all the financial stuff so better people on here for all that!

Another thing is would being Cat 1 really make us much stronger? Can we even pinch the best youth from cat 2 or lower academies around the country?

We would still be competing with the other cat 1 clubs to pinch some of those. And if they see a pathway at their cat 2 club then they might not want to move to a completely different part of the county to join us anyway.

 

Wouldn't the best youth players left over (after the bigger clubs have had their pick) rather come to us as a Cat 1 academy rather than stay in a Cat 2?

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