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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Imagine a multi millionaire business man and football club owner making decisions based on fans opinions! 🤦‍♂️

While you talk of imagination, imagine any businessman ignoring the views of the majority of their customers and expecting to remain successful. The chances are they would lose custom.

The difference is fans are not like customers in any other business, our support is lifelong and he therefore takes it for granted. 

Furthermore, imagine any ageing person who might not be of the same sound mind they once were but who believes they still are and is surrounded by nobody scrutinising their decisions.

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1 minute ago, tin said:

While you talk of imagination, imagine any businessman ignoring the views of the majority of their customers and expecting to remain successful. The chances are they would lose custom.

The difference is fans are not like customers in any other business, our support is lifelong and he therefore takes it for granted. 

Furthermore, imagine any ageing person who may not be of the same sound mind as he was once but who believes he still is.

OH, we're suggesting he's not of sound mind now? 😂

As you said, customers aren't like any other business and this forum represents a very small percentage of the fan base. There will be initial outrage (as we witnessed) but there would have been the loud miniority who would have opposed any appointment. The vast majority of fans will still support the club and trust the decisions made.

I expect football fans are wrong way more often than they are right when it comes to what players they want to sign, or their starting lineups, or their preferred manager.

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He said nothing we didn’t already know. Yes, we are all very grateful for the money SL has ploughed into the club, and he went to great length in telling us what he has done and paid for. But, he wants Premier league football, and surely I would have thought he would employ a manager who has a better chance of getting what he wants.

He stated that we don’t need a manager that has managed in the prem, because we aren’t in the prem, strange logic in my mind, surely if you can potentially hire a manager who has managed at a higher level, it would seem logical to hire that person.

Managers that have done it at a higher level naturally know more than managers who haven’t. I’ve got nothing at all against DH, and hope he is successful, but I just don’t understand SL’s thought process. 

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Does He?  Can’t say I’ve noticed anything.  Has anyone suggested that on here?  I haven’t read every post in depth.

I just think he lacks confidence in speaking on football matters.  He’s a fan at heart, and Chairman by birthright.  That’s not a criticism, it’s his route into the position he holds.

I've never noticed a speech issue. Wouldn't bother me if he did have one. Doesn't really matter.

Communication has been the biggest failing from the club. Not the tonality or delivery 

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2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

OH, we're suggesting he's not of sound mind now? 😂

As you said, customers aren't like any other business and this forum represents a very small percentage of the fan base. There will be initial outrage (as we witnessed) but there would have been the loud miniority who would have opposed any appointment. The vast majority of fans will still support the club and trust the decisions made.

I expect football fans are wrong way more often than they are right when it comes to what players they want to sign, or their starting lineups, or their preferred manager.

One is not dependent on the other.  Support is very rarely dependent upon who the ownership of a club is. Doesn’t mean you have to trust their decisions though.  You just have to accept them as you have no other choice. 

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9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

He said nothing we didn’t already know. Yes, we are all very grateful for the money SL has ploughed into the club, and he went to great length in telling us what he has done and paid for. But, he wants Premier league football, and surely I would have thought he would employ a manager who has a better chance of getting what he wants.

He stated that we don’t need a manager that has managed in the prem, because we aren’t in the prem, strange logic in my mind, surely if you can potentially hire a manager who has managed at a higher level, it would seem logical to hire that person.

Managers that have done it at a higher level naturally know more than managers who haven’t. I’ve got nothing at all against DH, and hope he is successful, but I just don’t understand SL’s thought process. 

 

I can accept that you need to appoint the right man not necessarily the most famous one but by Steve's logic we should not even have interviewed Hughton because we are not in the PL.

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19 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

He stated that we don’t need a manager that has managed in the prem, because we aren’t in the prem, strange logic in my mind, surely if you can potentially hire a manager who has managed at a higher level, it would seem logical to hire that person.

That was absurd logic.

Even if managing in the Prem isn't a requirement, surely experience of winning promotion from the C'ship would be pretty desireable, if that is your stated goal?! 

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6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just watched it and still none the wiser as to why Holden was the best candidate for the job. Same as usual it's just "trust us, we know what we're doing". 

Well unfortunately after 20 years of significant investment and imo significant underachievement based on that level of investment, I have little faith that the right appointment has been made, or that it was made for the right reasons. 

It's baffling that he continues to talk up the Academy as being a route to success when he won't invest in it to become Cat 1 and we have seen such little evidence of any Academy players (apart from Kelly) being promoted to the first team since Reid and Bryan departed. 

We are miles away from the Academy contributing significantly to the first team at the moment. He used the Bears as an example and said they have the same structure as the FC. Well Bristol had 12 Academy products in their squad on Saturday! If we have the same structure then why is half their squad made up of Academy lads and we rarely name more than one Academy player in our matchday squad? I appreciate it's a different sport but Bristol are managing to do this at an elite level, too. 

It was also interesting that he revealed he was told by Danny Wilson, what must have been a minimum of 15 years ago, to invest in the training ground. Why has this taken so long to deliver, if as Steve says, it's such a vitally important facility to have? Very strange. 

Finally, he mentioned that City have always done things the right way and take their time in the interviewing process. Well, apart from the times you haven't done that, Steve. Most recently about six years ago when you appointed SOD within 24 hours of sacking McInnes.  No interview process for Millen's appointment either, or Cotterill i think. Seemed like he was trying to rewrite history a bit to fit the current agenda. 

Overall, not a lot to be positive about, training ground aside. 

With SL, JL and MA making what seems to be pretty much every footballing decision at the club, it will be more luck than judgement if we do stumble on a winning formula that gets us to the Promised Land. 

It is very hard to find an argument against any of that @Kid in the Riot

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That was absurd logic.

Even if managing in the Prem isn't a requirement, surely experience of winning promotion from the C'ship would be pretty desireable, if that is your stated goal?! 

I am afraid it’s the usual ‘ it’s my club and I can do what I want’.

I fear this could go horribly wrong very quick.

I hope DH is a huge success but the odds are against that.

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6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was also interesting that he revealed he was told by Danny Wilson, what must have been a minimum of 15 years ago, to invest in the training ground. Why has this taken so long to deliver, if as Steve says, it's such a vitally important facility to have? Very strange. 

I want a new kitchen but it’s gonna take a few years to raise the cash. 

Another one who whinges that Uncle Steve is not spending enough money. 

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7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just watched it and still none the wiser as to why Holden was the best candidate for the job. Same as usual it's just "trust us, we know what we're doing". 

Well unfortunately after 20 years of significant investment and imo significant underachievement based on that level of investment, I have little faith that the right appointment has been made, or that it was made for the right reasons. 

It's baffling that he continues to talk up the Academy as being a route to success when he won't invest in it to become Cat 1 and we have seen such little evidence of any Academy players (apart from Kelly) being promoted to the first team since Reid and Bryan departed. 

We are miles away from the Academy contributing significantly to the first team at the moment. He used the Bears as an example and said they have the same structure as the FC. Well Bristol had 12 Academy products in their squad on Saturday! If we have the same structure then why is half their squad made up of Academy lads and we rarely name more than one Academy player in our matchday squad? I appreciate it's a different sport but Bristol are managing to do this at an elite level, too. 

It was also interesting that he revealed he was told by Danny Wilson, what must have been a minimum of 15 years ago, to invest in the training ground. Why has this taken so long to deliver, if as Steve says, it's such a vitally important facility to have? Very strange. 

Finally, he mentioned that City have always done things the right way and take their time in the interviewing process. Well, apart from the times you haven't done that, Steve. Most recently about six years ago when you appointed SOD within 24 hours of sacking McInnes.  No interview process for Millen's appointment either, or Cotterill i think. Seemed like he was trying to rewrite history a bit to fit the current agenda. 

Overall, not a lot to be positive about, training ground aside. 

With SL, JL and MA making what seems to be pretty much every footballing decision at the club, it will be more luck than judgement if we do stumble on a winning formula that gets us to the Promised Land. 

The academy stuff and "pathway" is what most gets on my tits.

Blocking off the routes to first team football for home grown players is not a pathway. That is the opposite. It is a dead end for academy players at BCFC.

And why are we as a club so insistent about the fact theres a pathway, but unwilling to stump up the cash to become a Cat 1 academy? There are 26 Cat 1 academies now, so If Steve is serious about a pathway then Cat 1 has to be the next thing on the agenda. Otherwise, there'll be fewer Lloyd Kellys, and more Herbie Kanes. BCFCs youth development/recruitment is a joke all around really, but you'd have thought for a side purporting to care about a pathway that we'd be Cat 1 by now. 

We are not a club that takes youth development seriously imo. 

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2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That was absurd logic.

Even if managing in the Prem isn't a requirement, surely experience of winning promotion from the C'ship would be pretty desireable, if that is your stated goal?! 

The stated goal and the actual goal may not be the same. The evidence of recent years is that the main goal is to sign and develop players and sell for a profit. That includes players who are unlikely to see much first team action but whose value may still increase in an inflationary market. At that we have been successful but the churn acts against the alleged goal.

As to the alleged pathway, it appears to have a locked gate. The true pathway appears to be from Academy to multiple loans to being sold.

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7 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I want a new kitchen but it’s gonna take a few years to raise the cash. 

Another one who whinges that Uncle Steve is not spending enough money. 

On the contrary, @Kid in the Riotis saying that if the training ground is so important, as indeed it is, why did it take so long to invest in it? Given how much Steve has invested over the years it seems unlikely he couldn't raise the funds rather earlier. 

As Kid says there is some rewriting of history going on.

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48 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

I've never noticed a speech issue. Wouldn't bother me if he did have one. Doesn't really matter.

Communication has been the biggest failing from the club. Not the tonality or delivery 

No, nor me, that’s why I responded to JonDolman’s post - he brought it into the discussion.

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1 minute ago, megansdad said:

Quite clear DH had a plan which impressed those interviewing him. Can't see how that'shard to understand. Based on the conversations held he and his team were deemed the best people to take the club forward. 

At the risk of repeating myself, why should we not be told what that plan is then? We might be impressed as well. 

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5 minutes ago, megansdad said:

Can't see any club that has done that with a manager. Proof will be in how we play no matter what is said. Happy we have an owner who invests heavily in the club and is a fan. Happy to trust his judgement and am looking forward to an exciting season. 

Did you trust his judgement when he told us to judge him on the appointment of Tinnion? His track record in appointing managers leaves grounds for a good deal of scepticism I suggest.

We will indeed have to wait and see and I wish Dean well but I don't see any grounds for blind faith and excitement at this point.

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5 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Interesting line about the “answer being on our doorstep” regarding Holden.

Why then did it take 6 weeks to realise that, when you’ve had 4 years plus to realise that?

And what does it say about the candidate if they’re happy to sit in the background for 4 years plus?

And what does it say about every other club that no one unearthed him after in the 6 years plus he’s been coaching? And the only reason he’s got a championship managers job is ‘right place at the right time’.

I’m not calling it the cheap option, but I just wish SL had come out and spoken more honestly in that interview because I neither agree or believe a lot of what he said there.

It’s not an ambitious appointment, it’s not a breath of fresh air.

Personally when I see DH do an interview all I still see is “the assistant Johnson sent out when he couldn’t be bothered to do the media” 

Your probably not going to be won over then mate.

Shame, but see ya. 

I love an Ashton gate full of support when we're aloud back in. 

Come back when were in the prem and the struggle is over 👍

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16 minutes ago, megansdad said:

Can't see any club that has done that with a manager. Proof will be in how we play no matter what is said. Happy we have an owner who invests heavily in the club and is a fan. Happy to trust his judgement and am looking forward to an exciting season. 

Let's face it most clubs are owned by people who like to think they know about football but don't.

But a club like Brentford have a clear and visible plan to the extent that they have told journalists that they already have their next Head Coach lined up for when Franks moves on. No exhaustive 5 week process required.

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58 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's baffling that he continues to talk up the Academy as being a route to success when he won't invest in it to become Cat 1 and we have seen such little evidence of any Academy players (apart from Kelly) being promoted to the first team since Reid and Bryan departed. 

There's no need for us to need a cat 1 academy, yes you can recruit from a wider range of academies but would we? 'Sorry Steve we know you already put in ~£8m a season but do you fancy financing another £3m a season plus giving the academy a budget to bring in players we have no guarantee will even go on to get pro contracts let alone make the 1st team'. Believe me I'd love more than anyone for us to be cat 1 but in reality we don't need it.

42 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

The academy stuff and "pathway" is what most gets on my tits.

Blocking off the routes to first team football for home grown players is not a pathway. That is the opposite. It is a dead end for academy players at BCFC.

And why are we as a club so insistent about the fact theres a pathway, but unwilling to stump up the cash to become a Cat 1 academy? There are 26 Cat 1 academies now, so If Steve is serious about a pathway then Cat 1 has to be the next thing on the agenda. Otherwise, there'll be fewer Lloyd Kellys, and more Herbie Kanes. BCFCs youth development/recruitment is a joke all around really, but you'd have thought for a side purporting to care about a pathway that we'd be Cat 1 by now. 

We are not a club that takes youth development seriously imo. 

Add to the point above I made to KitR, why do we need a cat 1 academy? Yes we can recruit from where we'd want to but it doesn't stop any other academy recruiting from us (cat 1 can take from cat 1) so all it means is we'd get an extra £80,000 odd for a player taken by a cat 1 academy max. The Herbie Kane's and Jacob Maddox's could still leave with us unable to do anything about it. The other factor is being cat 1 obviously it means you have to play the other cat 1 clubs, realistically can you develop a squad of players who will be able to play well enough to compete at that level or would it be better to be cat 2 and be able to play better football? Again said to KitR £3m to run a cat 1 academy, Swansea are potentially dropping to cat 3 because their owners have said a cat 1 academy in the championship isn't financially feasible for them. Cat 1 championship clubs include Norwich, Stoke with parachute payments, Middlesbrough with recent parachute payments, then Derby, Reading and Blackburn. Being outside the premier league with a cat 1 academy or premier league money isn't normal by any stretch.

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just watched it and still none the wiser as to why Holden was the best candidate for the job. Same as usual it's just "trust us, we know what we're doing". 

Well unfortunately after 20 years of significant investment and imo significant underachievement based on that level of investment, I have little faith that the right appointment has been made, or that it was made for the right reasons. 

It's baffling that he continues to talk up the Academy as being a route to success when he won't invest in it to become Cat 1 and we have seen such little evidence of any Academy players (apart from Kelly) being promoted to the first team since Reid and Bryan departed. 

We are miles away from the Academy contributing significantly to the first team at the moment. He used the Bears as an example and said they have the same structure as the FC. Well Bristol had 12 Academy products in their squad on Saturday! If we have the same structure then why is half their squad made up of Academy lads and we rarely name more than one Academy player in our matchday squad? I appreciate it's a different sport but Bristol are managing to do this at an elite level, too. 

It was also interesting that he revealed he was told by Danny Wilson, what must have been a minimum of 15 years ago, to invest in the training ground. Why has this taken so long to deliver, if as Steve says, it's such a vitally important facility to have? Very strange. 

Finally, he mentioned that City have always done things the right way and take their time in the interviewing process. Well, apart from the times you haven't done that, Steve. Most recently about six years ago when you appointed SOD within 24 hours of sacking McInnes.  No interview process for Millen's appointment either, or Cotterill i think. Seemed like he was trying to rewrite history a bit to fit the current agenda. 

Overall, not a lot to be positive about, training ground aside. 

With SL, JL and MA making what seems to be pretty much every footballing decision at the club, it will be more luck than judgement if we do stumble on a winning formula that gets us to the Promised Land. 

Some good points and your certainly on to something with many. 

But when do we just say and he's made mistakes he's tried to learn from them. (Whilst also trying to persuade his customers and all that)

It's really a stance of; he is overall the best thing to happen to this club, certainly when you look at other similar sized clubs disappear. 

Holdens who we got. Nobody really wanted him. But hay, might work. Let's give it our collective all.

With the club losing money "hand over fist" I personally would rather see us challenge affordably anyway 

 

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