Finland v Wales worth a watch Thursday night?

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well I'm sure O'Dowda will have to adapt to that system. I'm not really sure why O'Dowda has such an importance in what system we use. Its just a way Holden wants us to play. Everyone will have to adapt to it.

It’s not rocket science to think that a player who’s main position is a winger might have to adapt more to a system that doesn’t player with wingers, than another player who plays in a position that is part of that system.

For example I don’t think Jay Dasilva is a natural LWB....he’s played virtually all of his senior football at LB.  so I suspect he might be adapting too.

You don’t have to see every comment re Callum as a criticism of him or an undermining of your view of him.  Sometimes it’s a perfectly valid observation.

I would think most people would consider the full-backs and wingers are the most impacted by a change to a wingback system.  The next biggest impact is the side CBs.  It’s just what it is. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I'm genuinely very surprised that you should say that.

BCFC have kept going with JM- he's still absolutely committed to the shirt ( so they must be doing something right) and he has followed a not dissimilar path to Bryan and Reid. It's the right time for him now but he needed his big season away which he's now had. Like Walsh.

IMO on another graduate- Semenyo was brought back too soon.

 

The problem for me is that having been given a chance in Nov 2018 and early 2019, and in 3 out of the 4 games playing really well (not just my view), he wss cast aside by LJ for the rest of that season, sent out on loan last season, and midfielders signed over him (Nagy and Massengo, then Henriksen).

[Phileas Fogg]

52 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Well I'm sure O'Dowda will have to adapt to that system. I'm not really sure why O'Dowda has such an importance in what system we use. Its just a way Holden wants us to play. Everyone will have to adapt to it.

Thought it was pretty self explanatory - because wingers are the only real role in that system that’s redundant. 

[RedRock]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

What about all the managers who keep picking him?  Is he for sale? Why are you expecting him to leave?

I think I said on here when he re-signed he could get LJ the sack. 

LJ  bizarrely kept picking him. LJ got the sack. 

 

He has produced the sum of diddly squat for us (bar that Norwich goal). In all interests he moves on. 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I think I said on here when he re-signed he could get LJ the sack. 

LJ  bizarrely kept picking him. LJ got the sack. 

 

He has produced the sum of diddly squat for us (bar that Norwich goal). In all interests he moves on. 

I guess Kalas got him the sack as well then. And Fam. 

[And Its Smith]

Hungarians on twitter saying Adam Nagy was quality tonight and ran midfield. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

But he's been starting Eliasson who is a winger.

I don't really get what your point is. O'Dowda is a winger, or central midfielder. Holden seems to like him at wing back.

But wherever his best role is, Holden thinks 532 is the best system based on the squad as a whole.

If a couple of them do suit a different system, then he's not going to go with that if he feels most of them suit the other system.

But he hasn’t been starting him AS a winger - that’s the entire point.

He could start O’Dowda as a centre half if he wanted, it doesn’t change the point that as a winger he has to essentially ‘diversify of die’ (metaphorically!) to keep himself relevant to the squad.

Unless we’re losing a game and decide to play a 3-5-2 or 3-3-4 with wingers to really go for it - O’Dowda doesn’t naturally slot in to the system.

I’m sure you understand what people are saying here btw. 

[cidered abroad]

Joe Morrell last evening had, what I would call, a quiet game. But this is not meant in a negative way.

It was a quiet game with a steady pace to the match. Neither side really broke the rhythm and Joe did what he had to do in a very competent manner.

Having watched so many City youngsters coming into the first team, I am very clear in my mind that he has been ignored for too long. Nearly 23, with one league start!

Here's a little sample of City boys who we may not have seen or remembered if the current use of the loan system had been in existence for them.

Doherty, Ritchie, Derrick, Clark, Merrick, Collier, Rodgers, Thresher, Briggs, Bryant.

And above all, Gerry Gow?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

'its not rocket science.' No it's not. Didn't say it was. If you read mine and that posters conversation you'll see I'm explaining what you say.

What comment in that conversation did I see as criticism of O'Dowda? It is not rocket science to see I was replying to a question by a poster, and then going on to explain what I meant in the next posts.

I did read it, and I think you’re lessening the impact of COD’s need to adapt by saying everyone else does too.  Not only has he got to adjust to the way the system works, he’s got to adapt to a new position in that system too.

He might be doing that with flying colours for all I know.  Great if he is.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The problem for me is that having been given a chance in Nov 2018 and early 2019, and in 3 out of the 4 games playing really well (not just my view), he wss cast aside by LJ for the rest of that season, sent out on loan last season, and midfielders signed over him (Nagy and Massengo, then Henriksen).

That's quite an emotive statement. So anyone not deemed ready for the first team is 'cast aside'?

I completely agree that JM impressed in the earlier few games he played but I don't think he was an obvious first team choice at that time( and I can only imagine the consternation on here if he was). Going out on loan is surely better than a season in the reserves?

Cam Pring is another impressive young player and has a great loan at a big L1 club who will be challenging but he hasn't been cast aside.

Surely it's merely a case of "all's well that ends well"? We now have one of our own seemingly ready for the first team and utterly committed to the shirt. Happy Days.

 

 

[And Its Smith]

17 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

That's quite an emotive statement. So anyone not deemed ready for the first team is 'cast aside'?

I completely agree that JM impressed in the earlier few games he played but I don't think he was an obvious first team choice at that time( and I can only imagine the consternation on here if he was). Going out on loan is surely better than a season in the reserves?

Cam Pring is another impressive young player and has a great loan at a big L1 club who will be challenging but he hasn't been cast aside.

Surely it's merely a case of "all's well that ends well"? We now have one of our own seemingly ready for the first team and utterly committed to the shirt. Happy Days.

 

 

I agree. I can already see Morrell playing well and everyone piling on to say it’s proof LJ got it wrong. Could mean it’s proof he got it right and Morrell would be playing well because of last season 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

That's quite an emotive statement. So anyone not deemed ready for the first team is 'cast aside'?

I completely agree that JM impressed in the earlier few games he played but I don't think he was an obvious first team choice at that time( and I can only imagine the consternation on here if he was). Going out on loan is surely better than a season in the reserves?

Cam Pring is another impressive young player and has a great loan at a big L1 club who will be challenging but he hasn't been cast aside.

Surely it's merely a case of "all's well that ends well"? We now have one of our own seemingly ready for the first team and utterly committed to the shirt. Happy Days.

 

 

It is, but I mean the second half of that season (not 19/20)) because that Jan 19 transfer window he had opportunities to go on loan, but as City we’re trying to sign a midfielder to cover Smith they held onto him.  No replacement for Smith arrived, so Morrell stayed. And then never got picked in the match day 18 again (other than Wolves FA Cup game).  There were plenty of opportunities for him to be in the squad but LJ didn’t pick him.

 

[Prinny]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

I agree. I can already see Morrell playing well and everyone piling on to say it’s proof LJ got it wrong. Could mean it’s proof he got it right and Morrell would be playing well because of last season 

Yeah we'll never KNOW, because there's not two players called Joe Morrell (unlike Andy Goram) one of which started playing for us in 2018 and one of which was loaned out.

People will use results for confirmation bias. But we also don't have a choice here because that's all there is.

I was flicking between both games, Bulgaria were awful, O'Dowda looked pretty good with a couple of nice runs (one on around 10 mins in the right forward position, where he spots a gap between players and draws a foul on the edge of the box) but also there were large periods where he wasn't in the game. Morrell looked decent as a continuity player, but again, Finland put no pressure on him and there was a great chance for him to set an attack going after he intercepted a ball, ran forward then made a really really bad and slow decision and ruined an attack.

Pre season international football vs Finland an Bulgaria I expect to be a very different standard to competitive championship games. international football is so slow.

[Phileas Fogg]

12 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Ok well that is a bizzare way of looking at what I said.

COD has to adapt to new system. All players have to adapt to this system. Not sure what is not true about that.

Its not rocket science, Dave.

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I understand he has to play a different role than being a winger. I've already said that.

Seems like we agree on that so don't really get what else you mean?

What you’re not seeing (maybe wilfully) is that CO’D and other wingers need to adapt MORE than other players.

5-3-2 fundamentally has the following positions depending on how the game is going 

GK; CB, CB, CB; RWB (RB), LWB (LB); CM (CAM/CDM), CM (CAM/CDM), CM (CAM/CDM); ST (CAM), ST (CAM)

Positions in brackets are where a player might shift to over the course of a game depending on how it’s going. Systems rarely stay as a rigid formation.

That covers most of our squad as on the whole it allows for the natural positions of most of our players. 

To have wingers, we’d have to fundamentally change the system. Over the course of a game, the wing backs might play as ‘wingers‘ in spells but it’s not their primary role in a 5-3-2 regardless how the game is going.

As a result - it seems our wingers (ie O’Dowda) will have to adapt more than our other players.

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What you’re not seeing (maybe wilfully) is that CO’D and other wingers need to adapt MORE than other players.

5-3-2 fundamentally has the following positions depending on how the game is going 

GK; CB, CB, CB; RWB (RB), LWB (LB); CM (CAM/CDM), CM (CAM/CDM), CM (CAM/CDM); ST (CAM), ST (CAM)

Positions in brackets are where a player might shift to over the course of a game depending on how it’s going. Systems rarely stay as a rigid formation.

That covers most of our squad as on the whole it allows for the natural positions of most of our players. 

To have wingers, we’d have to fundamentally change the system. Over the course of a game, the wing backs might play as ‘wingers‘ in spells but it’s not their primary role in a 5-3-2 regardless how the game is going.

As a result - it seems our wingers (ie O’Dowda) will have to adapt more than our other players.

O’Dowda mainly played midfield for us last season and not on the wing. 

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

O’Dowda mainly played midfield for us last season and not on the wing. 

I would argue it’s not his natural position though, he’s fundamentally a winger and his place in the team depends on him learning and being comfortable with a new central role. Otherwise I don’t see where he fits.

[E.G.Red]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

That's quite an emotive statement. So anyone not deemed ready for the first team is 'cast aside'?

I completely agree that JM impressed in the earlier few games he played but I don't think he was an obvious first team choice at that time( and I can only imagine the consternation on here if he was). Going out on loan is surely better than a season in the reserves?

Cam Pring is another impressive young player and has a great loan at a big L1 club who will be challenging but he hasn't been cast aside.

Surely it's merely a case of "all's well that ends well"? We now have one of our own seemingly ready for the first team and utterly committed to the shirt. Happy Days.

 

 

Listening to DH on Radio Bristol, he did say that some of the younger players will need to go out on loan to reduce numbers and get game time, but NOT all of them  I expect Joe to be in this latter category.

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

O’Dowda mainly played midfield for us last season and not on the wing. 

Do you mean midfield as in wide midfield (in essence wing) or central midfield?  If you mean central midfield then I disagree.  As does Transfermarkt.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-odowda/leistungsdaten/spieler/255679/plus/0?saison=2019

[RedReynard]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If anyone hasn’t seen much of Morrell, and are watching the Wales game....this might be behind Holden’s decision to not re-sign Korey.

He genuinely has been at the heart of so much of Wales better stuff tonight, and a mere pup in international terms has led debutant Dylan Levitt through the match.  Mature performance.

I went to the Wales v Hungary game when Wales qualified for the Euros. Adam Nagy was playing for Hungary, Joe Morrell for Wales. Joe looked quality, composed in front of 31000 fans and can't recall him putting a foot wrong. Really impressed. Not afraid of a tackle either. Both of them got subbed but but remember thinking Joe had much the better game.