Ashton Gate 8 question.

[Blagdon red]

28 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

With respect, should it not be in a more prominent place where all supporters can see it ?

It was paid for by subscriptions by supporters to the ST if I remember correctly - happy to be corrected.

The plaque was paid for from funds raised by the ST through putting on a dinner for the AG8 in February 2007.

It can be seen by all supporters in its current location (the bar is open to all at HT and after games). But we'd equally be open to suggestions for relocating it again in the future.

 

[phantom]

19 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

The plaque was paid for from funds raised by the ST through putting on a dinner for the AG8 in February 2007.

It can be seen by all supporters in its current location (the bar is open to all at HT and after games). But we'd equally be open to suggestions for relocating it again in the future.

 

Blimey was that evening really 13 years ago 

I guess if the club ever has a museum? 

Otherwise as it was funded by ST members, it's only fitting it's displayed in their bar

[BTRFTG]

6 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Not sure what you call "a few years" but I remember chatting to him there, I knew him through work, well over 20 years ago 

I'm old so Tempus Fugit but I'm sure someone can recall the game when he returned, they made quite a thing of it. It's true that for many years he didn't attend and was highly critical I know as my best mate (long since departed) worked for his Gas counterpart in the trade.

[RobintheRed Red]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I believe players like Trevor Tainton’s business and health suffered as a result too.  Was nothing like today’s world of football.

Should be given a testamonial even now 

[The Hustler]

I do love seeing how the 'Ashton Gate 8' are continuously made out as being some sort of saviours of the club. Players given (rightly or wrongly) absurdly long contracts to drastically under perform and drag the club from the top tier to the bottom is frankly laughable.

The truth of the matter is that they simply had no other option at the time. The club couldn't afford to pay them their contracts anyway, so by 'tearing' up their contracts they were only doing what was the 'reasonable" thing for their own careers - and by no means just to save the club. Some players also went on to have lucrative contracts with other clubs.

 

[ashton_fan]

7 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

No. After things unravelled for them they liked to play that card but the reality of what their options were were clearly outlined to them by the PFA. They were always going to agree to cancel their contracts, what fans picked up on and hated was they attempted to prevaricate to extract the most for themselves almost taking the club to the brink.

The players had to think of their families, some of them were near the end of their playing careers and they weren't going to get any near the level of pay elsewhere. The reason for the Club nearly going bust was wholly the fault of the board at the time, who were completely incompetent in managing the club's finances. When we got promoted the board had managed the club well but the finance director died and there was a battle as Stephen Kew tried to take over from the successful Robert Hobbs. Unfortunately he succeeded and things went rapidly downhill, AD wasn't given money to replace Norman Hunter and we got relegated that season. In Div 2 our wage bill was far too high compared to our income and that's how the crisis developed. The directors were happy for the AG 8 to take the blame and flack for the situation as it helped to protect them from criticism, but the players suffered and none of it was their fault.

[Bristol Rob]

Given the lack of television money and hospitality cash back then, the huge drop in gate receipts must have played a significant part.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Absolutely would have done- and attendances were falling across the board irrespctive of relegation from say late 1970s to mid 1980s.

However relegation surely compounded this- and when you start falling it can be hard to stop!

See also, Bolton, Sheffield United and Wolves all ended up in the 4th tier- while two of Luton, Oxford and QPR won major trophies. Can't remember which two but the 1980s struck me in some ways as a bit of an odd era for football, looking from afar!

[Cardy]

The bit I’m not getting about the AG8 story & the new home kit is ‘Why Now’? There is no special relevance to this season in terms of number of years on and kit sales this year are going to be lower than any anything they have seen in previous years for a number of reasons. So it is hardly the time to release a celebratory commemorative shirt....
Or have I just hit the nail on the head - this is all some sad desperate marketing trick to drum up kit sales during a season when they know sales will otherwise be through the floor?!?
Are the AG8 therefore just being dusted off & flogged one more time because times are hard? I would suggest that would be the ultimate insult to the players concerned. All smells a bit fishy to me I’m afraid - “why now?”.

[BTRFTG]

33 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

The players had to think of their families, some of them were near the end of their playing careers and they weren't going to get any near the level of pay elsewhere. The reason for the Club nearly going bust was wholly the fault of the board at the time, who were completely incompetent in managing the club's finances. When we got promoted the board had managed the club well but the finance director died and there was a battle as Stephen Kew tried to take over from the successful Robert Hobbs. Unfortunately he succeeded and things went rapidly downhill, AD wasn't given money to replace Norman Hunter and we got relegated that season. In Div 2 our wage bill was far too high compared to our income and that's how the crisis developed. The directors were happy for the AG 8 to take the blame and flack for the situation as it helped to protect them from criticism, but the players suffered and none of it was their fault.

I think the point was at the end of their careers they shouldn't have gotten the monies they did from the club.

Kew and the rest saved us. The fact this forum exists, as does the club I've followed for all those years is down to them.

It wasn't the eight's fault, but they weren't saviours and shouldn't be credited with the reverence yung 'uns give them.

As to Hunter, good, but end of career needed Collier to cover him and when that failed, the show was over.

[Bristol Rob]

9 minutes ago, Cardy said:

The bit I’m not getting about the AG8 story & the new home kit is ‘Why Now’? There is no special relevance to this season in terms of number of years on and kit sales this year are going to be lower than any anything they have seen in previous years for a number of reasons. So it is hardly the time to release a celebratory commemorative shirt....
Or have I just hit the nail on the head - this is all some sad desperate marketing trick to drum up kit sales during a season when they know sales will otherwise be through the floor?!?
Are the AG8 therefore just being dusted off & flogged one more time because times are hard? I would suggest that would be the ultimate insult to the players concerned. All smells a bit fishy to me I’m afraid - “why now?”.

JL.

Trying to create nostalgia where Street Art failed 

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, The Hustler said:

I do love seeing how the 'Ashton Gate 8' are continuously made out as being some sort of saviours of the club. Players given (rightly or wrongly) absurdly long contracts to drastically under perform and drag the club from the top tier to the bottom is frankly laughable.

The truth of the matter is that they simply had no other option at the time. The club couldn't afford to pay them their contracts anyway, so by 'tearing' up their contracts they were only doing what was the 'reasonable" thing for their own careers - and by no means just to save the club. Some players also went on to have lucrative contracts with other clubs.

 

That is laughable.

Talk about rewrite history.

They ended up playing for clubs like Torquay, Bath, Gloucester, Lincoln - very lucrative that.

 

[reddoh]

28 minutes ago, Cardy said:

The bit I’m not getting about the AG8 story & the new home kit is ‘Why Now’? There is no special relevance to this season in terms of number of years on and kit sales this year are going to be lower than any anything they have seen in previous years for a number of reasons. So it is hardly the time to release a celebratory commemorative shirt....
Or have I just hit the nail on the head - this is all some sad desperate marketing trick to drum up kit sales during a season when they know sales will otherwise be through the floor?!?
Are the AG8 therefore just being dusted off & flogged one more time because times are hard? I would suggest that would be the ultimate insult to the players concerned. All smells a bit fishy to me I’m afraid - “why now?”.

covid 19, positive statement. number or team players +the 8 maybe just the new meaning of Life The Universe and Everything but so long long and thanks for all the fish.

[phantom]

7 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

That is laughable.

Talk about rewrite history.

They ended up playing for clubs like Torquay, Bath, Gloucester, Lincoln - very lucrative that.

 

I have to hold my hands up and admit I knew very little of where they ended up, but had also heard that phrase said about them.

So I thought I'd look....

[054123]

The phrase that has been somewhat overlooked in many walks of life recently is ‘the truth lies somewhere in the middle’.

I was born in 1980 and have grown up with a fairly realistic view of the situation, which is probably shared by most of the older city fans who I know.

The club got themselves in a state of their own making, we were about to go bust (in which everyone loses badly), in order for the club to survive the 8 players had to terminate their contracts (and then everybody loses but not as badly, yes the ‘club’ survived but was still on a downward helix).

I am grateful to all the parties involved who ultimately ensured the club did not disappear. Players, board members etc.

I think it’s good to revisit facts, as facts are supplanted by emotion an awful lot at present, but that works both ways of the argument.

 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

I'm sick and tired of people introducing genuine facts into a really good story.

And if anyone says that Jackie actually only had the very occasional game for us when he was superb- there'll be trouble.

[Miah Dennehy]

The 8 were dealt a fait accompli, they had no choice but to walk away. I don't think anyone could question that the blame for the mess lies fairly and squarely with the board of the time. Now money doesn't seem to be a problem, maybe your current board should make some charitable donation from the money they make selling shirts with the names on the eight on them.

I'm not sure how Peter Aitken will feel about having his name on the shirt though

 

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, Miah Dennehy said:

The 8 were dealt a fait accompli, they had no choice but to walk away. I don't think anyone could question that the blame for the mess lies fairly and squarely with the board of the time. Now money doesn't seem to be a problem, maybe your current board should make some charitable donation from the money they make selling shirts with the names on the eight on them.

I'm not sure how Peter Aitken will feel about having his name on the shirt though

 

Has Esmond Million repaid all losing bets and/or made good bets that would have won when he took a bung yet?

Maybe Wally could right this wrong at the same time!

[steviestevieneville]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Without them ripping up contracts, no club- ultimately?

Feels complex though.  I have read, but more than happy to be corrected- that we had one of the top wage bills in the country when in the top division- top 5 anyway. 

We got relegated at an awful time too- we got relegated at just a time where football attendances were in general in fall and the game was hitting a very bad period nationally. Football attendances were a key part of revenue in those days I believe, perfect storm- trouble at football, relegation, no mega TV money, paractute payments- Pfft? Attendances falling, social unrest in the country as a whole, rising unemployment etc etc- all adds up.

Then there's nothing like parachute payments or diverse revenue streams like today, huge wagebill, fixed term contracts- disaster! Still doesn't explain why we couldn't at the least stabilise in the 2nd tier though.

I read somewhere that Norman Hunter was on £2k a week , which if true was ridiculous money. My dad started watching the club after the resumption of the league post war and took me to my first game v Stoke (cheesly’s knee ) game . I was only 5 and have very little memory of the top flight days apart from the odd game and fighting  . I also started playing youth football in 1980 and perhaps had a head in the sand mentality regarding the Ashton 8 . I remember  the piss taking in school but have no recollection at all of that day. As I said , probably shut myself off from it . I’m not having a go at older fans that seem a bit resentful of them but , it’s not the players fault they got offered those ridiculous contracts and ultimately their  actions did save the club. 

[ashton_fan]

10 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

I think the point was at the end of their careers they shouldn't have gotten the monies they did from the club.

Kew and the rest saved us. The fact this forum exists, as does the club I've followed for all those years is down to them.

It wasn't the eight's fault, but they weren't saviours and shouldn't be credited with the reverence yung 'uns give them.

As to Hunter, good, but end of career needed Collier to cover him and when that failed, the show was over.

Don't see how "Kew and the rest saved us" if he'd not ousted Robert Hobbs as chairman (who was there when we got promoted) the whole financial mess would probably never have arisen.

As for Gary Collier covering for Hunter he'd already left (to Coventry). We signed Alan Hay to replace Hunter who did his best but was never a Div 1 player, we got him as he was cheap basically.

You have to remember those players weren't paid the sums footballers are today and many of them (eg Geoff Merrick) had been with the club from a young age and had been in the 75/76 promotion team so I would say they shouldn't have been put in that position and it was wrong to blame them.

[cidered abroad]

18 hours ago, spudski said:

Look at the length of the contracts given to players in 1978 and how old those players were at the time... that's where the problem arose.

Always thought something fishy about the length given their ages at the time.

I heard at the time this.

In summer 1978, Gary Collier became the first player to leave a club under the new "Freedom of Contract" rules. The fee was set by a committee of people not directly involved with either club.

AD was livid about this and went to the Board to say that Collier was the last player to leave City without his permission. The board and him decided that a long contract would stop this. It did because then no player wanted to leave at all because all the first team squad were on 8 to 11 year contracts.

What they did not consider was the effect if we ever got relegated and attendance's dropped by 50%.

Some moved on like Gow, Doyle and Ritchie. Even after AD left we threw money away with Houghton and Hodgson coming in after taking Malmo to European Cup Final. Salary levels?

So when we got to bottom of Division Three, the inevitable happened. We were bust!

What Deryn Coller, Ken Sage and others like Bob Boyd and all the fans who bought shares did was to save the club and they should be remembered as much as the Eight.

[Miah Dennehy]

24 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Has Esmond Million repaid all losing bets and/or made good bets that would have won when he took a bung yet?

Maybe Wally could right this wrong at the same time!

Err, well Esmond was ripping his own club off, so there is ever such a slight difference there

[steviestevieneville]

8 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Err, well Esmond was ripping his own club off, so there is ever such a slight difference there

No disrespect Miah , as you’re a good poster. However , the actions your club took in blocking a financial package by the council to help us and your board circling like vultures wanting Ashton gate is a major reason my generation and older will always detest your club. So if you wouldn’t mind. Please leave this thread to us city fans   

[Miah Dennehy]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

No disrespect Miah , as you’re a good poster. However , the actions your club took in blocking a financial package by the council to help us and your board circling like vultures wanting Ashton gate is a major reason my generation and older will always detest your club. So if you wouldn’t mind. Please leave this thread to us city fans   

What happened in 1982 changed football for all  clubs. So I will continue to chip in and antagonise when appropriate

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

What happened in 1982 changed football for all  clubs. So I will continue to chip in and antagonise when appropriate

It did indeed and as I said you’re a good poster on here and very welcome. However this particular thread is personal to me and brings up hatred for your club to a level that isn’t healthy to be honest.

[RedRock]

20 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I heard at the time this.

In summer 1978, Gary Collier became the first player to leave a club under the new "Freedom of Contract" rules. The fee was set by a committee of people not directly involved with either club.

AD was livid about this and went to the Board to say that Collier was the last player to leave City without his permission. The board and him decided that a long contract would stop this. It did because then no player wanted to leave at all because all the first team squad were on 8 to 11 year contracts.

What they did not consider was the effect if we ever got relegated and attendance's dropped by 50%.

Some moved on like Gow, Doyle and Ritchie. Even after AD left we threw money away with Houghton and Hodgson coming in after taking Malmo to European Cup Final. Salary levels?

So when we got to bottom of Division Three, the inevitable happened. We were bust!

What Deryn Coller, Ken Sage and others like Bob Boyd and all the fans who bought shares did was to save the club and they should be remembered as much as the Eight.

Actually, that’s a decent point about the role the fans played.

I’m sure many OTIBers, like myself, bought shares in the knowledge that in wasn’t an investment but ‘charitable donation’. Pretty young with a large mortagage at the time, so couldn’t afford much... but it all helped.

Maybe, would have been a nice touch if they had added ‘The Supporters’ to the new ‘8’ shirt. Wouldn't criticise the Club for not doing that though as it’s only Cidereds posting that made me remember the relevance of it!

 

 

[Bristol Rob]

21 minutes ago, Miah Dennehy said:

Err, well Esmond was ripping his own club off, so there is ever such a slight difference there

So, no then.

[Miah Dennehy]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

So, no then.

Well no- it was Rovers who were the victims of the crime!

Not that what the City board did in 1982 was a crime of course.

 

Although some may say it was criminal

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

Actually, that’s a decent point about the role the fans played.

I’m sure many OTIBers, like myself, bought shares in the knowledge that in wasn’t an investment but ‘charitable donation’. Pretty young with a large mortagage at the time, so couldn’t afford much... but it all helped.

Maybe, would have been a nice touch if they had added ‘The Supporters’ to the new ‘8’ shirt. Wouldn't criticise the Club for not doing that though as it’s only Cidereds posting that made me remember the relevance of it!

 

 

and for those supporters who did dig deep, thank you.

Whilst the country was facing record unemployment at the time (I clearly remeber the signs advertising prices - including a UB40 prices), fans did play a large part in our demise.

Some for financial reasons stayed away, some bored of the football and some disillusioned by the behaviour of fans.

A drop in attendance in the thousands would have left a massive black hole.

[Miah Dennehy]

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

It did indeed and as I said you’re a good poster on here and very welcome. However this particular thread is personal to me and brings up hatred for your club to a level that isn’t healthy to be honest.

I think it was pretty personal to a lot of people. I was pretty surprised to see some of the post on here actually, with the possible exception of Garland, it was hardly superstar footballers and a couple in particular were true City legends and treate dpretty shabbily (and that's putting it mildly)