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29 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

I like Weimann, but his natural instincts to bomb forward mean that if played in midfield near Pato, leaves huge gaps in the middle of the pitch; which in turn exposes our defensive midfielder/s. Also if Weimann playing means that Walsh is looking at bench time for large spells, that is something I personally can’t get on with. Once everyone is fit, I think Walsh, Williams and Morrell behind Pato is our best system going forward. Walsh will be much more aware of what’s behind him, but still able to play those telling forward passes, as well as linking well with Pato and the front two. If anything, Weimann should be considered as a part of the front two for certain games, not to take a midfield spot ahead of better players for that role. 

I’ve said plenty of times, I think yesterday with Weimann in CM, is a one-off / rare scenario this season.  We now have the players in CM for DH not to need Weimann in there like he felt he had to at the end of last season.

But, in the 6 games under DH that Weimann and Paterson have played (with Korey, Nagy and now Massengo) we haven’t been exposed in any of them.  We had a 10 minute spell v Stoke after h-t where Pato looked leggy and the shape broke down a bit, and a little spell v Swansea (before h-t) where Korey got pressed aggressively through a tactical change.  But we haven’t looked “strung out” in any game, like we have done with “other midfield combinations”.

Weimann might want to bomb forward, but who was back supporting Hunt in our own third in the last 20 minutes?  Statszone app no longer supporting EFL games, Whoscored not covering EFL Cup, so I can’t wait to for Wyscout to update and I can check his heatmap / stats.

However, as my opening gambit I don’t think the plan is to play Weimann in CM....but I think there is far too much unconscious bias that an unnatural CM3 that contains Pato and Weimann is too attack minded and will leave us exposed, when that’s not been the case in the 6 games they’ve played there.  Massengo’s energy and strength yesterday is the balancing player to help it be reasonably effective.

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve said plenty of times, I think yesterday with Weimann in CM, is a one-off / rare scenario this season.  We now have the players in CM for DH not to need Weimann in there like he felt he had to at the end of last season.

But, in the 6 games under DH that Weimann and Paterson have played (with Korey, Nagy and now Massengo) we haven’t been exposed in any of them.  We had a 10 minute spell v Stoke after h-t where Pato looked leggy and the shape broke down a bit, and a little spell v Swansea (before h-t) where Korey got pressed aggressively through a tactical change.  But we haven’t looked “strung out” in any game, like we have done with “other midfield combinations”.

Weimann might want to bomb forward, but who was back supporting Hunt in our own third in the last 20 minutes?  Statszone app no longer supporting EFL games, Whoscored not covering EFL Cup, so I can’t wait to for Wyscout to update and I can check his heatmap / stats.

However, as my opening gambit I don’t think the plan is to play Weimann in CM....but I think there is far too much unconscious bias that an unnatural CM3 that contains Pato and Weimann is too attack minded and will leave us exposed, when that’s not been the case in the 6 games they’ve played there.  Massengo’s energy and strength yesterday is the balancing player to help it be reasonably effective.

Some valid points in there, but our record in those games during the restart were hardly great markers to go by. We only beat poor Middlesbrough and Hull sides. Plus that game yesterday was against League 2 opposition. You’re saying we didn’t get exposed in those 6 games he played with Pato, yet we were exposed on many occasions and lost against Sheffield Wed, Forest, Cardiff and Swansea. Stoke also should have beaten us as they were constantly breaking through our midfield. I know you’re a big Weimann fan, but I don’t see him as a player good enough to start consistently for a side looking to break top 6. Derby knew this when they sold him to us. 

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51 minutes ago, Kingswoodactor said:

Some valid points in there, but our record in those games during the restart were hardly great markers to go by. We only beat poor Middlesbrough and Hull sides. Plus that game yesterday was against League 2 opposition. You’re saying we didn’t get exposed in those 6 games he played with Pato, yet we were exposed on many occasions and lost against Sheffield Wed, Forest, Cardiff

Those were all LJ games before Pato and Weimann came together in a 352 under Holden.  So that’s completely deviating away from the point about Weimann in a midfield 3.  I constantly said that LJ teams got exposed, got strung out.

and Swansea.

we had 60% possession, it was a more open game, because Swansea are expansive, but I don’t we got exposed.  Swansea created good chances, but so did we.

Stoke also should have beaten us as they were constantly breaking through our midfield.

Really?  A pretty even game, a draw against a massively improved Stoke side.  I’m not saying you KA, but I do think a lot of people forget that are 11 opponents out there stopping our own players doing what they’ve planned.

I know you’re a big Weimann fan, but I don’t see him as a player good enough to start consistently for a side looking to break top 6.

I do rate Weimann (overall), but I’ve given him plenty of 5/10s too....I’m not blinkered by one good game.  He generally is a far clever player than someone who runs about a lot.  And actually you do need players to run about a lot....in Weimann’s case it’s not for show, he’s moving opponents around, he’s creating space for other.  It’s important he does that, because some players don’t do that.  The best sides have players that don’t stand still!

Do I see him as a regular in a CM3 in a top 6 side.  No, I don’t.  But I don’t see him playing there regularly.  Do I see him playing as a forward (alongside one of the other 3 forwards) and us being top 6?  Yes, I can see that.  I think he can be part of a team that can challenge for the playoffs.  Last season we spent 14 weeks / matchdays  in the top 6.  He was a big part of that.

Derby knew this when they sold him to us.
I think for £2m he’s been a pretty good signing.

But all good debate.

 

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OP obviously hasn't read the board rules that you have to wait until the first loss of the season before we all have an extraordinary general meeting to appoint the team's official scapegoat.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

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16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

OP obviously hasn't read the board rules that you have to wait until the first loss of the season before we all have an extraordinary general meeting to appoint the team's official scapegoat.

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 Callum O'Dowda is ahead in mail in and early voting!

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Dear oh dear!

Anyone who witnessed first hand his hat trick at Sheff Utd a few season's ago would've seen a deft header, great movement into space for the second and a lovely give and go for the third.

Intelligent player and a team player. Will play in a number of positions and will run all day.

Sometimes I think he needs a break when off form though, but get rid? Get real!

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Yes, lets keep a player just because he scored a hat trick 'a few seasons ago'.  

9 hours ago, Swede said:

Dear oh dear!

Anyone who witnessed first hand his hat trick at Sheff Utd a few season's ago would've seen a deft header, great movement into space for the second and a lovely give and go for the third.

Intelligent player and a team player. Will play in a number of positions and will run all day.

Sometimes I think he needs a break when off form though, but get rid? Get real!

 

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No way would i get rid of him, but id use him less. He played all but one game last year, and for a player with his energy thats probably too much. In fact it points to his energy levels being high.

If we are playing 532, i dont see him in the middle or upfront (although thats an option). If that formation switches to 343 he absolutely plays as a right forward which is his best position. Let him explode into the game off the bench but dont play him so often as he looked burned out at times

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On 05/09/2020 at 20:23, Coin-op said:

All he does is run about and point a lot.  Did he learn his trade from Nicky Hunt?  Get rid.  No this is not from just one game.  I have thought this for the last year or so.  Woss reckon?

image.png.b16314a960228f163d790cbef19a30ad.pngLeave him alone, sizeist 😡

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