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One Semenyo in Bristol

Shtanley

By Shtanley
in Football Chat

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Prinny

Prinny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, samo II said:

Point one: enough of you’re responses (intentionally or otherwise) are confrontational - the pod posed the question regards thoughts on them taking sponsorship, you then added the factor regards OSIB being able to post (“advertise” as you put it, in the first of a number of pointedly provocative posts) on here, and then called a OSIB contributor of being “political” when you got an incomplete answer to a question you posed - that you choose to be confrontational when it’s not required is notable.

Would you say it's not a political behaviour to not answer simple questions? I think it's a fair characterisation.

Second point; these Masion Bet competitions haven’t even been announced yet - if you were as diligent a truth seeker and not simply seeking confrontation you’d have remembered that from the podcast... which you don’t even listen to, apparently.

No the details haven't been announced yet, I knew that. So i asked. A perfectly valid response would have been "We're not discussing it yet" and that's perfectly fine IMO! Not what happened though. I got a non answer so I pressed.

You’re not some appointed advocate for this place or the fans who do listen and may take part, so maybe avoid wasting everyone’s time trying to get into fights with people who produce a podcast that requires no commitment or cost from anyone and isn’t obligatory or mandatory.

The sun is hot and as obviously I'm not an appointed advocate. You'd have to talk to EVERYONE to find out if it's wasting their time. But since you keep responding it's clearly not been a waste for you. Or maybe you can't control yourself and you deliberately waste your own time? I'd fix that if I were you.

I’m not responding again; you can bank the attention you’ve already got and am sure you’ll have some galaxy brain response but I’m not really interested.

There's no need for a galaxy brain response. Just simple logic.

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Alessandro

Alessandro

Posted
Posted

I want to add my support to @Shtanley and the team on the sponsorship.

I think we live in a world where people expect free content and yet want ownership on it too. 

Yes, the sponsor is not ideal morally (but let’s be honest, these days, where are the honest sponsors? Banks? Alcohol? Multinationals? Even the popular Oat Milk brand has some dodgy links now....it’s Pandora’s box) but they approached you and ultimately they are the clubs’ sponsor. 
 

Personally - I can listen to advertising without the overpowering urge to act on it, so any betting ads will wash over me as I have no interest. 

The reality is a podcast on a public forum is never going to fully recreate an uncensored pub chat with your mates, no matter how much people might want the purity of that.

Fair play for you to opening the discussion and I think the suggestion of education on the subject is more helpful than a boycott frankly. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't know how they operate, but I think if the podcast was ferociously slagging off the board and management then you'd find it much harder to get direct access to them for interview (ie Jon Lansdown). This probably subconciously affects your output a bit, whether you realise it or not. That's not a criticism really, it's just self-preservation of the brand from your pov.

 

I new to this world with the recent set up of Forever Bristol City podcast (thanks @headhunter) and now appearing on OSIB (thanks @Shtanley).  I think my main sub-consciousness is not making a tit of myself on air, rather than towing any line per se (I know that’s not what you’re implying).  Forever Bristol City is live, and then made available with no edit....so the opportunity to say something stupid is only a moment away.  OSIB does have a bit of editing.

34 minutes ago, Olé said:

Sorry, how exactly did I discredit your comments? You discredited your own comments by turning your quite reasonable argument about the integrity of sponsorship from a gambling company, into a completely separate point about advertising on OTIB, and with quite a provocative and personal remark about "his business".

I'm sure Stan can speak for himself, but personally I'd find that kind of remark incredibly hurtful. I see it all the time, someone takes all the risk and hard graft to build something or do something creative, and the minute there's a nominal reward, they're demonised as in it for themselves, undermining years of voluntary effort.

These sorts of initiatives take a huge amount of time and personal sacrifice with very little reward compared to just working 9-5 and getting paid properly. My sarcasm just reflected the ridiculousness of your own point back on you - yours was the ridiculous exaggeration. A podcast is advertising a business on OTIB? Really?

The sad thing is I'd quite happily have a sensible discussion about the integrity of involving a gambling company (an industry I know very well, warts and all) and you won't find any argument from me about the risks to editorial independence. But the business comment on the other hand came across as spiteful and misplaced.

Anyone want to buy any t-shirts?

Agree.  On the data analytics side, there are some guys in twitter getting similar stick for charging for some of their content, whether that be Patreon podcasts or data requests.  These guys are investing a lot of their time (and money) to obtain data and video, and whilst it might be free to build their “brand”, I suspect the more they’ve done, the more they’ve thought about trying to earn a few quid for it.

To get 2.5 hours of clips and basic data on Wyscout costs €600 per annum.  For someone like jbcfc on twitter, I would imagine he’s paying for a bigger clip package than that.  I’m paying less than that but I hardly get any video, so I, really careful what clips I watch.  I’d really like to get xy coordinate data for passmaps and the likes, but you start to get into stupid money then!

I’m happy to do my charts and stuff for free, but if I was starting to outlay €1000+ for xy data I’d probably look at hooking into someone who might pay for that kind of analysis I can provide.  It’s very much a hobby for me, and  a chance to learn how to manipulate data better, which may come in useful in my “day-job”.  The fact that it’s using football data makes it more interesting.

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REDOXO

REDOXO

Posted
Posted

I have a very long drive in front of me so I'll be listening in today.

Luckily I am to busy to read or take much part in what makes up the rest of this thread.

Good luck to the lads/lasses who put all of these podcasts together. The issue of independence and sponsorship is something The BBC has been grappling with for years as do most broadcasters.

However I'm sure you'll be great moving forward. Good Luck!

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted

Let me preface this by saying I don’t listen to the podcast. Tried it, didn’t care for it. However, this all seems fairly simplistic to me:

Advertising on Forum

Its a pretty straw man argument to say advertise OSIB on the forum is akin to normal “advertising”. Ultimately I don’t think the guys get pay per listener and the only way they could monetise its is by selling advertising revenue. If they could do that to any extent then you can argue they are using OTIB for advertising and monetary gain.

Lets think what this is though. It’s a fan run podcast for a 2nd division side. This isn’t the next big thing. With all respect to what the guys do, I think they know themselves that listener numbers are probably just going to be what they are currently - so no advertisers are going to be fighting for space. They will make no cash from this (Mansion Bet id bet is small and may at best cover running costs) and the advertising on forum piece for the pod is a bit of a Maguffin.

Prizes

In any competition like a radio prize giveaway, the organisers can’t enter. That’s therefore null

Gambling Advertising

Simply falls into “pay your money, take your choice”. I support city and do so in the knowledge that they have taken funds from gambling companies. If I listened to the pod, I would do so in the knowledge of who the advertisers were as well. I do think gambling companies can be shysters, but (like alcohol) it has a place as a relaxation activity in moderation. If you don’t want to listen to the pod due to Mansion, you probably also shouldn’t watch City.

General Ads in Forum

I think there’s a nuanced debate that could be had here - I seem to remember Peg pushing a friends vape shop and getting short shrift. Personally - it’s a football forum. If someone has a football (specifically city) product they want to bring to attention I have no issue there. The market itself will regulate as if it’s garbage, the post will drop quite quickly. That’s how I understood we operated and we should continue to do so

Summary - Nothing to really see here!

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I new to this world with the recent set up of Forever Bristol City podcast (thanks @headhunter) and now appearing on OSIB (thanks @Shtanley).  I think my main sub-consciousness is not making a tit of myself on air, rather than towing any line per se (I know that’s not what you’re implying).  Forever Bristol City is live, and then made available with no edit....so the opportunity to say something stupid is only a moment away.  OSIB does have a bit of editing.

Agree.  On the data analytics side, there are some guys in twitter getting similar stick for charging for some of their content, whether that be Patreon podcasts or data requests.  These guys are investing a lot of their time (and money) to obtain data and video, and whilst it might be free to build their “brand”, I suspect the more they’ve done, the more they’ve thought about trying to earn a few quid for it.

To get 2.5 hours of clips and basic data on Wyscout costs €600 per annum.  For someone like jbcfc on twitter, I would imagine he’s paying for a bigger clip package than that.  I’m paying less than that but I hardly get any video, so I, really careful what clips I watch.  I’d really like to get xy coordinate data for passmaps and the likes, but you start to get into stupid money then!

I’m happy to do my charts and stuff for free, but if I was starting to outlay €1000+ for xy data I’d probably look at hooking into someone who might pay for that kind of analysis I can provide.  It’s very much a hobby for me, and  a chance to learn how to manipulate data better, which may come in useful in my “day-job”.  The fact that it’s using football data makes it more interesting.

LJ might be interested…:ph34r:

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The Journalist

The Journalist

Posted
Posted

Not that @Shtanley needs any backing from me on this, but just to add another voice of support - I think he's done an incredible job with the podcast and should feel free to do whatever the hell he likes with it without needing to justify anything to anyone.

Starting up anything like this in the world of media and turning it into something professional and, ultimately, actually worth consuming is incredibly difficult. Turning it into something that makes money even more so. He's definitely ticked the first box and, if he manages to tick number two, more power to him.

While - like anything that you put in the public domain - people will always be (or at least feel) entitled to critique and feed back, I'd be encouraging him to crack on however he sees fit.

@Prinny, do you have a previous username? I can't say I'm particularly familiar with your work.

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Olé

Olé

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Except I'm not demonising him. Which is the misrepresentation of my views which I'm talking about.

Your views are not being misrepresented. "Is it okay to advertise his business on here for free? Shouldn't he be paying some some sort of fee?" (or words to that effect) are absolutely demonising of a voluntary initiative, to say nothing of how petty it is too.

23 minutes ago, Prinny said:

And I'd still be interested to see the views/policies on advertising businesses here.

Well if you put half as much energy into building something you could advertise, as you have picking apart something someone else has built, maybe you could find out.

The forum doesn't have a problem with rampant advertising so the common sense approach obviously works. I would guess it's got to relate to City, and ideally limited to people who already contribute to the forum as posters, as opposed to people literally registering/dipping in to advertise their wares. It's just fanzines, podcasts and the odd badges. All jokes aside no one even advertises t-shirts! I fail to see the issue you had mapped out in your thinking when you woke up this morning.    

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One Team

One Team

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

Not that @Shtanley needs any backing from me on this, but just to add another voice of support - I think he's done an incredible job with the podcast and should feel free to do whatever the hell he likes with it without needing to justify anything to anyone.

Starting up anything like this in the world of media and turning it into something professional and, ultimately, actually worth consuming is incredibly difficult. Turning it into something that makes money even more so. He's definitely ticked the first box and, if he manages to tick number two, more power to him.

While - like anything that you put in the public domain - people will always be (or at least feel) entitled to critique and feed back, I'd be encouraging him to crack on however he sees fit.

@Prinny, do you have a previous username? I can't say I'm particularly familiar with your work.

I certainly hope @Shtanley doesn’t make OSIB appear professional! I have said it many times, it’s at its absolute best when it’s anything but!

I have referenced it in an earlier post on this thread, I don’t mind if there is a sponsor or who it is (I would do exactly the same) so long as the essence of the podcast, including it’s unprofessional, slapdash, tangent off shoot discussion approach and general randomness continues!

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One Team

One Team

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Olé said:

Your views are not being misrepresented. "Is it okay to advertise his business on here for free? Shouldn't he be paying some some sort of fee?" (or words to that effect) are absolutely demonising of a voluntary initiative, to say nothing of how petty it is too.

Well if you put half as much energy into building something you could advertise, as you have picking apart something someone else has built, maybe you could find out.

The forum doesn't have a problem with rampant advertising so the common sense approach obviously works. I would guess it's got to relate to City, and ideally limited to people who already contribute to the forum as posters, as opposed to people literally registering/dipping in to advertise their wares. It's just fanzines, podcasts and the odd badges. All jokes aside no one even advertises t-shirts! I fail to see the issue you had mapped out in your thinking when you woke up this morning.    

A certain clothing company based in ‘South Bristol’ would’ve been a great sponsor mate! ??

 

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lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

@Silvio Dante “If you don’t want to listen to the pod due to Mansion, you probably also shouldn’t watch City“

Yes I did find it a little, interesting, to say I won’t listen to OSIB because of Mansion Bet, but I’ll still be watching City.....who have Mansion Bet across their shirts......

Not to get into the whole podcast debate on this, I’ve not listened to it and can’t comment but when I see this argument it’s a bit of a misnomer I think just to say ‘don’t watch City then’ as supporting City is not something you can just turn on or off depending on external factors. Supporting City is in your blood and you’ll do it despite ownership, sponsorship etc within reason.  The choice to listen to a podcast where there is no such tie and a vast array of choice just isn’t comparable. 

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, lenred said:

Not to get into the whole podcast debate on this, I’ve not listened to it and can’t comment but when I see this argument it’s a bit of a misnomer I think just to say ‘don’t watch City then’ as supporting City is not something you can just turn on or off depending on external factors. Supporting City is in your blood and you’ll do it despite ownership, sponsorship etc within reason.  The choice to listen to a podcast where there is no such tie and a vast array of choice just isn’t comparable. 

That is true in a large part and I’d acknowledge I could have been a bit flippant in the original comment.

Truth is, for many of us our football team is the closest thing we have that isn’t family. Many of us may choose not to shop in x shop if the owner engaged in, I don’t know, Badger Baiting, but if our parents were Badger  Baiters we couldn’t cut them off as easily.

Point well made. ?

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Prinny

Prinny

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Olé said:

Your views are not being misrepresented. "Is it okay to advertise his business on here for free? Shouldn't he be paying some some sort of fee?" (or words to that effect) are absolutely demonising of a voluntary initiative, to say nothing of how petty it is too.

No those are questions... there's a question mark there. And why is asking those questions demonising him? I don't say it's wrong. I'm not giving my opinion, I'm asking the opinion of others. Again, you're not reading what's there. Which is misrepresenting. It's dishonest. There's no demonising there.

You're arguing with definitions and the text I'm writing. My question to you is why? You know what a business is, you know what advertising is, so when I say it's advertising a business, and you say it isn't. Why? You know what I'm saying is true. So why object to it? And why don't you acknowledge that you were either wrong or dishonest there? 

Well if you put half as much energy into building something you could advertise, as you have picking apart something someone else has built, maybe you could find out.

I don't get this. It's not that much energy to find this out. I typed the question. It took a couple of minutes to type the whole post as I thought about things. I certainly have put a couple of minutes into making things I can advertise. I hadn't thought about the issue before so it's a new effort/question to me. And maybe i can find out, which is the point in asking. Right? 

The forum doesn't have a problem with rampant advertising so the common sense approach obviously works. I would guess it's got to relate to City, and ideally limited to people who already contribute to the forum as posters, as opposed to people literally registering/dipping in to advertise their wares. It's just fanzines, podcasts and the odd badges. All jokes aside no one even advertises t-shirts! I fail to see the issue you had mapped out in your thinking when you woke up this morning.    

No it absolutely doesn't. And I agree with the criteria you set out.

So my question rather than issue is should there be a different advertising policy for a podcast accepting income as opposed to one that doesn't? I don't see what's demonising about that. 

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Prinny said:

No it absolutely doesn't. And I agree with the criteria you set out.

So my question rather than issue is should there be a different advertising policy for a podcast accepting income as opposed to one that doesn't? I don't see what's demonising about that. 

IMO no, not when the overlay of its only city related things that get “advertised” on here is put in place.  As I said earlier, there is no way that @Shtanley is getting anything other than running costs out of this when you consider the nature of the product and likely demand.

If we were getting Sky advertising podcasts on here then I’d be saying there should be a charge. But I think you’re losing sight of the fact that there is going to be no real advertising “revenue” from OSIB

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The Journalist

The Journalist

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, One Team said:

I certainly hope @Shtanley doesn’t make OSIB appear professional! I have said it many times, it’s at its absolute best when it’s anything but!

I have referenced it in an earlier post on this thread, I don’t mind if there is a sponsor or who it is (I would do exactly the same) so long as the essence of the podcast, including it’s unprofessional, slapdash, tangent off shoot discussion approach and general randomness continues!

I guess it depends what you mean by professional!

I was more referring to the production, the sound quality, the branding he's developed, the structure of the podcast - probably the little things listeners take for granted but I notice because I know how much work goes in to make it sound like that.

Podcasts/websites/whatever are pretty simple things to do, but really difficult things to do well. He does it well.

The content is often pretty random and, I completely agree, is absolutely richer for that!

Just my two cents, anyway. ?

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Prinny

Prinny

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

Not that @Shtanley needs any backing from me on this, but just to add another voice of support - I think he's done an incredible job with the podcast and should feel free to do whatever the hell he likes with it without needing to justify anything to anyone.

Starting up anything like this in the world of media and turning it into something professional and, ultimately, actually worth consuming is incredibly difficult. Turning it into something that makes money even more so. He's definitely ticked the first box and, if he manages to tick number two, more power to him.

While - like anything that you put in the public domain - people will always be (or at least feel) entitled to critique and feed back, I'd be encouraging him to crack on however he sees fit.

@Prinny, do you have a previous username? I can't say I'm particularly familiar with your work.

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/profile/3693-redhyde/ i didn't use the forum for like two years, when I came back, couldn't get into the account as it apparently unlinked from my email address so I  made a new account. Last post is me being very wrong about Ashton Vale! 

I actually totally agree with this post.

He doesn't need to justify anything to me. He did ask for opinions the podcast. So I gave mine and have been following the discussion it sparked. And the success and value he's created is great! Undeniable.

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Prinny

Prinny

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

IMO no, not when the overlay of its only city related things that get “advertised” on here is put in place.  As I said earlier, there is no way that @Shtanley is getting anything other than running costs out of this when you consider the nature of the product and likely demand.

If we were getting Sky advertising podcasts on here then I’d be saying there should be a charge. But I think you’re losing sight of the fact that there is going to be no real advertising “revenue” from OSIB

I accept all that.

I don't think the answer should change on if he makes a profit or not though. It's more on the willingness to accept any income. I should have thought about this and asked when he went to patreon.

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lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

That is true in a large part and I’d acknowledge I could have been a bit flippant in the original comment.

Truth is, for many of us our football team is the closest thing we have that isn’t family. Many of us may choose not to shop in x shop if the owner engaged in, I don’t know, Badger Baiting, but if our parents were Badger  Baiters we couldn’t cut them off as easily.

Point well made. ?

Cheers. Wasn’t directed solely at you Silv at all but it’s something I see more and more across social media used as an easy shut down  - the ‘don't like it don’t do it’ argument and Life is generally a bit more nuanced than that like you say.  

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, UREDS_91 said:

I just can't wait for the outcry when HarryFood sponsored by Just Eat is announced.... 

 

 

Also are substitutions in OSIB presenters going to be sponsored too? 

 

Today we welcome @Davefevs sponsored by Raid: Shadow Legends

I’ve just been down the council offices and changed my name by deed poll to “Mr Mansion Bet”!!

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Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve just been down the council offices and changed my name by deed poll to “Mr Mansion Bet”!!

Reminds me of one of the best Viz top tips...

Motorists: Save Money on expensive personalised number plates by changing your name to match your existing car

Mr KV05 NDR, Chiswick.

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Alessandro

Alessandro

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, lenred said:

Not to get into the whole podcast debate on this, I’ve not listened to it and can’t comment but when I see this argument it’s a bit of a misnomer I think just to say ‘don’t watch City then’ as supporting City is not something you can just turn on or off depending on external factors. Supporting City is in your blood and you’ll do it despite ownership, sponsorship etc within reason.  The choice to listen to a podcast where there is no such tie and a vast array of choice just isn’t comparable. 

I hear what you’re saying but if you come out and make a vocal moral stand against betting advertising....surely you should have courage of your convictions?

Basically it’s saying I’ll make the small sacrifice of not listening to a podcast, to make a moral point and rub my moral ego.

But when push comes to shove, i’m not willing to make an actual sacrifice, stop watching City. 

And you make excuses like it’s ‘out of my control’ - well if it matters that much to you and you feel that strongly, it’s always in your control. Look at FC United of Manchester.

And ultimately, thousands and thousands more will see the Mansion Bet advertising through the club than hear it on a podcast.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Reminds me of one of the best Viz top tips...

Motorists: Save Money on expensive personalised number plates by changing your name to match your existing car

Mr KV05 NDR, Chiswick.

I’m pretty sure it was KVL 741J...weird how things stick in your head.

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