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I think we are fine. Doesn’t matter what you think of the younger players and their ability at this level. If we need to use them they are at a point where they need to produce or they will go. There are no more loans that will help them take to this level. Moore, Vyner, Walsh and Morrell it is sink or swim time. I think they will mostly make the cut. 
 

Also, some say sell players like Vyner, O’Leary or Semenyo but they cost us basically nothing. It is better to have a few players like this around who have been involved with the club for year on lower wages than bringing in a journeyman on 10k a week. 
 

Plenty of teams have to rely on kids during any given season. I don’t think we have and its about time we do. 

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1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Towler perhaps? Can't say I've seen much of him.

I saw him against Weston and thought he looked good. Big jump from playing in that team to the Championship though. That said, how old was say Lloyd Kelly when he was making starts for us, he soon got snapped up and it was a shame we couldn’t have kept him. Towler has been given a squad number so in our plans somewhere.

Regarding Korey, we have lost a bit of versatility with him going. 

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3 hours ago, Hampshire reds said:

with Dean wanting to play 3 centre halfs and Baker out until at least Christmas .Have we got enough cover.  The signing of Mawson is a great deal if he stays fit.  i am not totally convinced Taylor Moore or Zac  are good enough for what is a very tough division.  would it be wise to get one more centre half in.  the midfield looks as good as any team in this league as does the forward line if Fam stays. the back 3 not convinced. 

Interesting that you say that you are not convinced by Vyner and Moore at Championship level but are by Walsh and Morrell when the former two have more experience at that level

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1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Think that’s a bit harsh on Rowe to call him a ‘journeyman’. 

Mr Dependable/Consistency for me. Seems to slot in anywhere and give 6, occasionally, 7/10 performances in any position. Wish that could be said for a number of LJs ‘favourites’. 

He ain’t going to win us the League, but he won’t let us down either. Every Club needs a Rowe.

That's fair, I suppose I see him as a journeyman more because he doesn't seem to have a position that he excels in but as you said, dependable is a fairer assessment, I suppose he's the utility man for us and you're correct in saying  clubs need that.

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30 minutes ago, RedM said:

I saw him against Weston and thought he looked good. Big jump from playing in that team to the Championship though. That said, how old was say Lloyd Kelly when he was making starts for us, he soon got snapped up and it was a shame we couldn’t have kept him. Towler has been given a squad number so in our plans somewhere.

Regarding Korey, we have lost a bit of versatility with him going. 

Emergency situations call for emergency solutions. How likely is it that all our fit centre backs get injured so that we can't put out two established players? Vyner had a shoulder injury but doesn't seem to be something that would reoccur, Moore I can't remember ever being injured either? Worst comes to worst we change to a back 4 or use Rowe at LCB like on Saturday. 

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1 hour ago, Tears in rain said:

Could argue so can Walsh after he was one of Covs best players last season. Personally I think we are too lightweight in midfield in the sense that there is no real presence to win headers or second balls etc. Pack was pretty good at.

That’s why we signed Joe Williams....Holden been talking a bit about being more physical too.  Most of us agree that we’ve been a bit lightweight, or at least unprepared to win the battles against certain sides.

1 hour ago, ollywhyte said:

Could Chris Brunt fill in a LCB as a ball playing defender? 6ft2 and has played as a LB in latter stages of his career.

Similar option to Rowe I suppose 

Looking back through Wyscout data, he played 12 minutes for NI at LCB, his only time he’s played there in the last 5 years!

He’s a good footballer, I’m sure his reason for playing more at LB is his age, and the demands of the pace of central midfield.

If he does sign, I’m intrigued to hear what role(s) Holden has for him.

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

Seen Morrell play quite a few times.

Not seen Walsh other than clips at Coventry on a weekly basis.

Me too, up to him now to go and prove it.  Massengo had a good game on Saturday, so we’ll see how Holden deals with that this Saturday!

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I think we are still one short in central defence. Four centre-backs until Christmas leaves us exposed - without Baker, Benkovic and Williams we are one down on last season - especially with 5 at the back - and Rowe is currently cover for two positions. I think we really need to bring someone in.

I think our midfield is a massive unknown. Paterson is inconsistent, Williams is settling in at a new club, we don't know if Morrell and Walsh will adapt to the Championship or if Nagy and Morell will push on for next season. It is possible that the OP is right and we do have a really strong central midfield but we just don't know yet. I'm excited by it though.

Personally I'd like to see Bakinson stay and fight for a place but I don't really see a space for Palmer, Szmodics, O'Dowda, Eliasson or Adelakun within our current system. I'd like to see some of those players move on and a new centre-back come in. 

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1 minute ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Overstatement of the century. 

Time will tell - not that long ago Nagy was the future...

Adam Nagy thread from last year

He might be again. He had a tough time settling and with injuries last year. By all accounts, he has returned as one of the fittest players in the squad. I think a major issue last year is he was used as a holding player and I'm not convinced that is how we get the best out of him. If Williams, Massengo or Morrell can hold and give him freedom to get around the pitch, we may see the player we hoped we had signed. 

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We’re one CB down on last season and playing a formation that needs an extra CB. 
 

Since last season we’ve lost Williams, Benkovic and Baker. We’ve gained Moore and Mawson. Still one short.
 

Total CBs (not including round pegs in square holes like Rowe/Sessegnon):

 

Kalas

Mawson

Moore

Vyner

The kid that played on Saturday 

 

We need two covering each position. Would expect to see a starlet come in from a lower league. 

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I disagree. We can't afford to have two quality players for each position, we've only lost Baker for half the season. Brunt, Rowe, Sessengon as versatility players makes sense.

 

Edited by Seneca the Younger
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With the COVID situation, we cannot afford to bring in a centre back on the wages of Mawson and get a sixth centre back too. As mentioned above, it will be Brunt, Rowe or Sessegnon. Worst case scenario we modify shape slightly and go to a back 4. The money can be invested in other areas of the squad, such as getting Walsh and Fam on new deals.

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we need to sell some of the players that are just not going to get game time to free up some wages. i agree 100% we need a centre back to cover the Baker injury.  Kalas and Mawson will definitely be starters. After that not  sure who we have.  Taylor Moore and Zac are these two good enough to play a full season of championship football. for me no. 

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10 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I disagree. We can't afford to have two quality players for each position, we've only lost Baker for half the season. Brunt, Rowe, Sessengon as versatility players makes sense.

 

But if Kalas or Mawson get substantial injuries, which they have in recent times, we’re looking very threadbare. 

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Just now, Notbarrymanc said:

But if Kalas or Mawson get substantial injuries, which they have in recent times, we’re looking very threadbare. 

I assume we'd then get an emergency loan. Our squad is huge as it us. Your point makes sense, IMO, but I don't think it's prudent financially.

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  • elhombrecito changed the title to Centre Backs (Merged)

If we get a couple of injuries, it's time to trust the likes of Baldwin/Towler. 

You see it all the time at other clubs where they have an injury crisis, a kid comes in and does well. 

Anyone who's watched the Spurs documentary will have seen that's how Tanganga got his chance. 

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1 hour ago, Seneca the Younger said:

I assume we'd then get an emergency loan. Our squad is huge as it us. Your point makes sense, IMO, but I don't think it's prudent financially.

No such thing these days, other than GKs.

The window closes Oct 15th....reopens 1st Jan.  So we have 2 1/2 months to survive, or go and get an out of contract CB (cough, cough, Ashley Williams) 😂

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On 07/09/2020 at 10:07, BRISTOL86 said:

Add Szmodics (maybe), Palmer, Paterson, Weimann and perhaps even O’Dowda to that, assuming we persist with 352 

Just reiterates the point that our midfield is weak. None of those players would get into last years top 3 or 4 sides I don't think

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On 07/09/2020 at 10:13, Red white and red said:

How do we know that? 
 

I’ll give you Williams, as he played in the championship last season. But Walsh and Morrell? They haven’t played consistently above league one before. Pretty much completely untested. How do we know they are going to be good enough in the centre of the park, against experienced championship midfielders/strikers? I hope you are right. 

Morrell yes as he's playing international football with Wales and doing very well. But less certain about Walsh but he looked skillful and sharp playing for Coventry. Williams is superb. Playing in a struggling side like Wigan he looks a brilliant capture. Pretty quick, confident on the ball and just what we need in midfield, he gets stuck in.

 

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Gregor has said he reckons no more incomings for the time being.

That leaves us with Mawson, Kalas, Moore and Vyner at CB, plus Baker (injured). Kalas and Mawson both lost a bit of time with injury last season and we've got four players for three at the back. Rowe can play there but that would leave a shortage of LWB cover (unless Holden thinks O'Dowda or Eliasson can do that) and Bakinson covered there on Saturday.

Do we think the plan is to use that extra space at centre-back as a spot for Bakinson to push for a place or to bring in an out of contract player if we get injuries after October, as we did with Williams?

Or is MacGregor wrong on this one and will a new centre back be here by the end of the window?

Or am I wrong and is four centre-backs enough until Christmas? Or am I disregarding someone else in the youth system?

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On 07/09/2020 at 10:22, Bar BS3 said:

Walsh and Morrell are totally unproven at this level. 

You can only be basing your thoughts on some 2nd hand reports of performances in different teams, at a lower level, at this moment in time. 

In addition to Williams who we know is good and was quite sought after.

Walsh seems like a player who can break the lines I think- showed flashes when he was here. Maybe a season regularly in a winning side albeit at a lower level has helped him build on strengths, but iron out some weaknesses.

Morrell is improving all the time.

Nagy and Massengo- these are good to have.

System plays a certain role with most of these- LJ often failed to set up in a way that would see them produce their best.

Do I think we have the best midfield in the League? No. Do I think we have a good range with room for growth in most if not all cases? Yeah. Playing them in a 2 will weaken the overall ability- there's a reason why teams at this level and indeed at higher levels, place such an emphasis on controlling central areas one way or another.

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5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Gregor has said he reckons no more incomings for the time being.

That leaves us with Mawson, Kalas, Moore and Vyner at CB, plus Baker (injured). Kalas and Mawson both lost a bit of time with injury last season and we've got four players for three at the back. Rowe can play there but that would leave a shortage of LWB cover (unless Holden thinks O'Dowda or Eliasson can do that) and Bakinson covered there on Saturday.

Do we think the plan is to use that extra space at centre-back as a spot for Bakinson to push for a place or to bring in an out of contract player if we get injuries after October, as we did with Williams?

Or is MacGregor wrong on this one and will a new centre back be here by the end of the window?

Or am I wrong and is four centre-backs enough until Christmas? Or am I disregarding someone else in the youth system?

I think we will be using the remaining 5 weeks of the transfer window to monitor the fitness and fatigue of the 4 CBs.  They might also be seeing how close Ryley Towler is too, and whether he comes into consideration with Rowe for back up CB.

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30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we will be using the remaining 5 weeks of the transfer window to monitor the fitness and fatigue of the 4 CBs.  They might also be seeing how close Ryley Towler is too, and whether he comes into consideration with Rowe for back up CB.

Looks like he's grown a foot in a year !

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47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think we will be using the remaining 5 weeks of the transfer window to monitor the fitness and fatigue of the 4 CBs.  They might also be seeing how close Ryley Towler is too, and whether he comes into consideration with Rowe for back up CB.

Did I make up Towler being a midfielder or can he play both? To be clear, I know nothing about him directly - just trying to remember what I've read and heard about him. 

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