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Denmark Vs England


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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For all the hype, don't think we're miles better than Denmark- like I say not altogether surprised.

Negative? Maybe! Still had we fielded say 2 CM and Mount from the start, maybe we concede- we have a midfield problem after all.

Point being we should be able to go there playing our style of football rather than switching back to a more defensive system. I'd have stuck with 433, Mings in the team either at LCB or LB as 2 right footers just wasn't going to work, its not like they're both footed either. Midfield needed at least one of Mount/Grealish/Ward-Prowse from the start as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Redstart said:

Southgate must have taken coaching tips from Johnson, how to take a group of flair players and bang them into a formation that just makes them look totally ordinary and beatable.

Would agree that last two games we have looked like a 2019/20 LJ side. Really poor. 

However would also say he should be judged on when he has full squad to pick from as a lot of players are out. 

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This whole 'We're the best and going to take the Euros by storm' we had in the last year- I don't fully see it.

Didn't then and unsure I do now! Belgium feel better than us, France feel better- Italy 16 unbeaten and controlling every game with possession in that sequence, and including 2.5 goals maybe a bit more per game, look at Croatia- not the side they were, or the Holland game, in summers 2018 and 2019. Portugal look at them since the WC!

Not saying they're all better than us but we're not perhaps as good as the media like us to think.

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think in terms of personnel we have a really exciting group of players to choose from. I think Southgate should go and we won’t win a tournament under him.

I was not particularly surprised about the draw personally- you look at who the players in both sides play for and there's not a huge difference in stature of clubs or background on average.

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

This whole 'We're the best and going to take the Euros by storm' we had in the last year- I don't fully see it.

Didn't then and unsure I do now! Belgium feel better than us, France feel better- Italy 16 unbeaten and controlling every game in that sequence, 2.5 goals maybe a bit more per game, look at Croatia- not the side they were, or the Holland game, in summers 2018 and 2019. Portugal look at them since the WC!

Not saying they're all better than us but we're not perhaps as good as the media like us to think.

On paper I’d fancy us to be competitive against any of those sides bar France but we have a reasonable record against them in internationals over the last few years. Man for man I don’t think any of the Danish players are better than ours either.

We should be beating teams like Denmark really. 

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11 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

On paper I’d fancy us to be competitive against any of those sides bar France but we have a reasonable record against them in internationals over the last few years. Man for man I don’t think any of the Danish players are better than ours either.

We should be beating teams like Denmark really. 

Home record in last few years suggests otherwise- a draw is not a surprise to me. At Wembley or at a tournament, yes we should win. Not convinced we should take a win in Denmark as a given though.

Competitive yes- not necessarily better on paper but...

Schmeichel- Leicester vs Pickford- Everton

Wass- Valencia vs Alexander Arnold- Liverpool

Zanka- Fenerbahce vs Gomez- Liverpool

Christensen- Chelsea vs Coady- Wolves

Skov- Hoffenheim vs Trippier- Atletico

Dier- Tottenham vs Norgaard- Brentford

Delaney- Borussia Dortmund vs Phillips- Leeds

Eriksen- Inter vs Rice- West Ham

Braithwaite- Barcelona vs Sancho- Borussia Dortmund

Dolberg- Nice vs Kane- Tottenham

Poulsen- Leipzig vs Sterling- Man City

SUBS:

Kjaer- AC Milan vs Maitland Niles- Arsenal

Hojberg- Tottenham vs Mount- Chelsea

Falk Jensen- FC Copenhagen vs Grealish- Aston Villa

Now we have more but not wildly so. Some of these have moved clubs and more than once in the last year so a draw is far from a surprise. Some of them are misleading too- Kjaer at a rebuilding AC Milan, Braithwaite at a declining Barcelona for example.

We have a tendency to hype it up in this country.

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22 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yep, didn't we hang on for a draw against Colombia before pens? 

They scored a last minute equaliser, wouldn't say it was hanging on for a draw. Extra time was a bit tight but both sides had chances.

3-4/11 first choice players tonight. Kane not fit, and as many pointed out a defence/midfield incapable of making penetrative passes forward. I don't blame Southgate for that, he gave an opportunity to some new players and I think we saw they aren't quite upto it yet. Coady wanted to go long far too much, Philips played better second half when given a bit more space but still didn't really make any "key" passes. I dont get Rice, I dont think he's good enough.

We're missing too many big players to take too much notice of these results. We've missed some friendlies, so these will be experimental games ahead of the summer tournament. 

Admittedly, neither game was good to watch and performances were poor but I think Southgate's still in credit in terms of excitement and performances during his time in charge

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Home record in last few years suggests otherwise- a draw is not a surprise to me. At Wembley or at a tournament, yes we should win. Not convinced we should take a win in Denmark as a given though.

Competitive yes- not necessarily better on paper but...

Schmeichel- Leicester vs Pickford- Everton

Wass- Valencia vs Alexander Arnold- Liverpool

Zanka- Fenerbahce vs Gomez- Liverpool

Christensen- Chelsea vs Coady- Wolves

Skov- Hoffenheim vs Trippier- Atletico

Dier- Tottenham vs Norgaard- Brentford

Delaney- Borussia Dortmund vs Phillips- Leeds

Eriksen- Inter vs Rice- West Ham

Braithwaite- Barcelona vs Sancho- Borussia Dortmund

Dolberg- Nice vs Kane- Tottenham

Poulsen- Leipzig vs Sterling- Man City

SUBS:

Kjaer- AC Milan vs Maitland Niles- Arsenal

Hojberg- Tottenham vs Mount- Chelsea

Falk Jensen- FC Copenhagen vs Grealish- Aston Villa

Now we have more but not wildly so. Some of these have moved clubs and more than once in the last year so a draw is far from a surprise. Some of them are misleading too- Kjaer at a rebuilding AC Milan, Braithwaite at a declining Barcelona for example.

We have a tendency to hype it up in this country.

Realistically (and I haven’t watched some of the more obscure Danish players that often if at all) the only ones I’d take are Eriksen and Delaney.

Denmark really aren’t that special, it should be a routine win.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Realistically (and I haven’t watched some of the more obscure Danish players that often if at all) the only ones I’d take are Eriksen and Delaney.

Denmark really aren’t that special, it should be a routine win.

A lot of them have CL experience, top division experience elsewhere- are you looking at this through PL tinted glasses maybe? ;) 

Yeah, they lose routinely often- ha!

Never said Denmark are some great special side- but neither are we as such.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Realistically (and I haven’t watched some of the more obscure Danish players that often if at all) the only ones I’d take are Eriksen and Delaney.

Denmark really aren’t that special, it should be a routine win.

I’d have Schmiechel all day long in goal .

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Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

A lot of them have CL experience, top division experience elsewhere- are you looking at this through PL tinted glasses maybe? ;) 

Yeah, they lose routinely often- ha!

No just what I think. I don’t watch a massive amount of Prem. Which ones do you think would get into the England best 11 then? 

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10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No just what I think. I don’t watch a massive amount of Prem. Which ones do you think would get into the England best 11 then? 

Never said loads would get into the best England side, more that I'm not surprised that a set of players who play for useful sides draw with us on home soil. Eriksen would be good!

Hojberg came from Bayern academy, Dolberg Ajax- quite highly rated academies. Poulsen was in a strong Leipzig side that eliminated Tottenham and Atletico in the CL season just gone- not saying I'd have them in the England side but yeah there's experience and quality there that can hold us to a draw over there.

Denmark aren't spectacular but don't lose often- draw quite a lot for one.

OTOH I'm surprised we didn't play a 4-3-3, start Grealish as one of them for example.

Listening to the radio, I forgot we beat Montengro 7-0! I do though recall we beat Bulgaria 6-0 and Kosovo 5-3 and 4-0.

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Home record in last few years suggests otherwise- a draw is not a surprise to me. At Wembley or at a tournament, yes we should win. Not convinced we should take a win in Denmark as a given though.

Competitive yes- not necessarily better on paper but...

Schmeichel- Leicester vs Pickford- Everton

Wass- Valencia vs Alexander Arnold- Liverpool

Zanka- Fenerbahce vs Gomez- Liverpool

Christensen- Chelsea vs Coady- Wolves

Skov- Hoffenheim vs Trippier- Atletico

Dier- Tottenham vs Norgaard- Brentford

Delaney- Borussia Dortmund vs Phillips- Leeds

Eriksen- Inter vs Rice- West Ham

Braithwaite- Barcelona vs Sancho- Borussia Dortmund

Dolberg- Nice vs Kane- Tottenham

Poulsen- Leipzig vs Sterling- Man City

SUBS:

Kjaer- AC Milan vs Maitland Niles- Arsenal

Hojberg- Tottenham vs Mount- Chelsea

Falk Jensen- FC Copenhagen vs Grealish- Aston Villa

Now we have more but not wildly so. Some of these have moved clubs and more than once in the last year so a draw is far from a surprise. Some of them are misleading too- Kjaer at a rebuilding AC Milan, Braithwaite at a declining Barcelona for example.

We have a tendency to hype it up in this country.

Listening to Southgate reminds me of LJ's wafflling analysis after a game...he is delusional.  I appreciate players are probably not up to speed, and it showed.......but let's have some honesty?  We did not control the game, and the formation was all wrong.

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13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Listening to Southgate reminds me of LJ's wafflling analysis after a game...he is delusional.  I appreciate players are probably not up to speed, and it showed.......but let's have some honesty?  We did not control the game, and the formation was all wrong.

Agreed- surprised we didn't go 4-3-3!

Control, we did not have- we had a bit more possession but not control. I'm not wildly surprised by a draw though regardless.

Foden for any of Dier-Phillips-Rice would have been desirable but sent home wasn't he. Grealish perhaps- Mount I wonder about balance and risk of 2 v 3 if it's 2 CM and Mount.

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What a turgid game. Grealish looked decent for the brief spell he was on the field and Conor Coady did OK too. Nothing else to write home about.

To be expected though, given no fans are allowed to attend games and coming the week before the Premier League kickoff; and just what exactly is the point of the UEFA Nations League? It really is a nonsense competition.

It should join the Golden Goal Rule, half and half woolly hats and the Screen Sports Super Cup in the annals of ill-advised football decisions down the years and be unceremoniously binned. 

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3 hours ago, WessexPest said:

What a turgid game. Grealish looked decent for the brief spell he was on the field and Conor Coady did OK too. Nothing else to write home about.

To be expected though, given no fans are allowed to attend games and coming the week before the Premier League kickoff; and just what exactly is the point of the UEFA Nations League? It really is a nonsense competition.

It should join the Golden Goal Rule, half and half woolly hats and the Screen Sports Super Cup in the annals of ill-advised football decisions down the years and be unceremoniously binned. 

France 4-2 Croatia

Germany's draws with Spain and Switzerland

Portugal 4-1 Croatia and their dominant win in Sweden.

Italy's win in Holland featured quite a bit of good football by the former. Think Belgium beating Iceland 5-1 also put paid to that turgid to be expected theory on some levels.

None of which had fans, yet were altogether turgid from bits I saw- high scoring ones often aren't.

Well, I'm fairly undecided about the Nations League either way, but it's better than meaningless friendlies with 10 substitutions a side as used to happen not so long ago.

Might also add, the Nations League and Premier League- these are mutually exclusive, the PL is just one League in Europe. What we think of it or what any individual fan thinks of it doesn't carry too much weight, in some ways. The world or European football doesn't revolve around whether it's good for the PL but good for the game in general. Jury out on it I think but anyway...

Nations League is in some ways quite good as it has sides of a similar level competing- see some of the groups, nicely balanced. Also it can help lesser sides to improve, so the theory goes by gaining confidence in dominant wins vs other lesser sides rising the ranks and eventually gaining points to edge up in qualification. Example might be Finland- won their Nations League group in 2018 containing Estonia, Greece and Hungary- the latter two at times decent middling European sides. Then they qualified for Euro 2020 for the first time behind Italy of course, but ahead of Bosnia and Greece- both of whom they'd have been expected to finish behind.

I'd add Kosovo as well potentially. They won their Nations League group in Pot D, and then took confidence into the Euro 2020 qualifiers, gaining some notable results and performances.

Maybe even Ukraine- winning their Nations League Group, subsequently went unbeaten in qualifying as top of their group with Portugal and Serbia.

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10 minutes ago, 2015 said:

England were crying out for a change in shape from the 10th minute and an actual attacking midfielder who can control the game too. Southgate is tactically woeful

Annoyingly he’s very ‘on brand’ with what the FA want in an England manager - a bit like Johnson when he was here in that regard. 

The England job would attract loads of world class managers, Southgate is an unambitious safe option. I genuinely think this current crop of England players is potentially the best we’ve had since 06’. We don’t have the same quality in defence or midfield as that era - but it’s as good as we’ve had for 15 years, especially in attack. It’s so frustrating watching us in these games.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Annoyingly he’s very ‘on brand’ with what the FA want in an England manager - a bit like Johnson when he was here in that regard. 

The England job would attract loads of world class managers, Southgate is an unambitious safe option. I genuinely think this current crop of England players is potentially the best we’ve had since 06’. We don’t have the same quality in defence or midfield as that era - but it’s as good as we’ve had for 15 years, especially in attack. It’s so frustrating watching us in these games.

Yes he is. His face fits, his waistcoat fits, he is the perfect man for the FA. If he leaves then it would be Eddie Howe (god forbid it isn't) and the train goes on.
I fear this actual really talented generation will be wasted much like the Sven era was. It's really sad to see the likes of Rice and Dier in the side when we really do have a plethora of great footballers and attacking youngsters right now. We are playing a way that does not benefit the attacking players at all. 
If I was any of Holding, Tarkowski, Webster, Lascelles etc watching that Dier is playing in their position for England i'd be gutted to be honest.

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1 minute ago, 2015 said:

Yes he is. His face fits, his waistcoat fits, he is the perfect man for the FA. If he leaves then it would be Eddie Howe (god forbid it isn't) and the train goes on.
I fear this actual really talented generation will be wasted much like the Sven era was. It's really sad to see the likes of Rice and Dier in the side when we really do have a plethora of great footballers and attacking youngsters right now. We are playing a way that does not benefit the attacking players at all. 
If I was any of Holding, Tarkowski, Webster, Lascelles etc watching that Dier is playing in their position for England i'd be gutted to be honest.

Me too.

For some reason we're scared to 'go foreign' when we've had top managers like Ralf Ragnerick for interview before. It reminds me slightly of City - scared to go for a 'big name' (eg Hughton) because we've been burned before (Coppell). 

Southgate is a safe continuity option much like Holden. That's not a dig at Holden who I have been impressed by so far, but the appointment is similar in lots of ways.

Our attacking options are genuinely very exciting - and despite his antics, players like Foden who are going to the top. England did well in 2018, and you can only beat what's in front of you, but we did have a fortunate run of fixtures in that tournament.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Me too.

For some reason we're scared to 'go foreign' when we've had top managers like Ralf Ragnerick for interview before. It reminds me slightly of City - scared to go for a 'big name' (eg Hughton) because we've been burned before (Coppell). 

Southgate is a safe continuity option much like Holden. That's not a dig at Holden who I have been impressed by so far, but the appointment is similar in lots of ways.

Our attacking options are genuinely very exciting - and despite his antics, players like Foden who are going to the top. England did well in 2018, and you can only beat what's in front of you, but we did have a fortunate run of fixtures in that tournament.  

 

So very true.

Sadly the fortunate run will keep him in the job just that little bit longer than normal. Look at how bad it was under Hodgson and it took them to lose to Iceland to get rid.

The difference between then and now is we do actually have a lot of good prospects coming through but we have a Man behind the wheel who does not know how to utilise them to their best strengths. The formation is being used to benefit Harry Kane who is so out of form right now it's a joke and Southgate is too worried we will be caught on the break so plays a negative midfield. 

It's either 433 or 442 for me for England. There has got to be a creative spark in the middle. Kane needs to sit on the bench the next game. Rice and Dier need dropping and we could do with Henderson coming back with Grealish/Foden/Maddison in the middle. 

Guarantee absolutely none of that will happen.

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Just now, 2015 said:

So very true.

Sadly the fortunate run will keep him in the job just that little bit longer than normal. Look at how bad it was under Hodgson and it took them to lose to Iceland to get rid.

The difference between then and now is we do actually have a lot of good prospects coming through but we have a Man behind the wheel who does not know how to utilise them to their best strengths. The formation is being used to benefit Harry Kane who is so out of form right now it's a joke and Southgate is too worried we will be caught on the break so plays a negative midfield. 

It's either 433 or 442 for me for England. There has got to be a creative spark in the middle. Kane needs to sit on the bench the next game. Rice and Dier need dropping and we could do with Henderson coming back with Grealish/Foden/Maddison in the middle. 

Guarantee absolutely none of that will happen.

It's very annoying because Southgate has bought himself lots of good favour by being very media friendly and good for the England brand (remind you of anyone?)

I think Allardyce would do a better job and it was a shame what happened there. I think you're probably spot on about Howe too. 

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4-3-3 I think should be the way forward.

There's a reason why lots of top teams be it domestic or international play that shape or something close to it. Some variant or it.

We still definitely have a problem in midfield. When it comes to vs decently middling sides upwards, perhaps not so much at home.

Do you fancy our midfield 3 to control ball and tempo vs better middling and then vs other A list sides? Unsure about that! Those who lose the midfield can often lose the game.

I forget what shape we played back Holland in the Nations League semi final but we certainly lost the midfield as it went on that night.

In Prague, Henderson started. He was IIRC part of the problem!

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/czech-republic-vs-england-report-result-performance-has-been-coming-a9152891.html

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Southgate has done a good job but think he has been quite lucky to be honest. We had a easy route to the semi finals in the world cup. 

Apart from the Spain win I can't from the top of my head remember us beating anyone I wouldn't expect us to beat under Southgate. 

Unfortunately I don't think the FA will be proactive in getting rid. 

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