Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

LJ on Talksport 2 for Watford vs Boro


Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Who do you blame though as the majority of those players entertained against Man Utd and Man City x2 so were more than capable 

The manager,he threw caution to the wind in those games while the majority of the games he never,I guess that’s why he’s got the reputation that he has among people like yourself who don’t watch City that often because most City fans were sick to the back teeth of him,it’s not only here the fans were glad to see the back of him as well ask Barnsley and Oldham fans

Edited by joe jordans teeth
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I can remember when he was appointed Points West interviewed fans in a local pub who weren't happy that he had got the job bunt unknown to them Johnson was there listening to them so from the start he probably never felt wanted. 

By and large he wasn't wanted.  Every time he went on a losing streak that resurfaced.  He did ok results wise given the investment until last season but last season there was the opportunity to do so much better and we watched him squander it through sheer ego and bloodymindedness.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Nibor said:

By and large he wasn't wanted.  Every time he went on a losing streak that resurfaced.  He did ok results wise given the investment until last season but last season there was the opportunity to do so much better and we watched him squander it through sheer ego and bloodymindedness.

I just think he was way out his depth. You cannot blag your way through life, you will get found out in the end. 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some interesting comments and historical revisions on this thread.

I can not be arsed to point them all out as I have a season of football to look forward to. Hopefully not so much pump it to Fammy ball....

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, City1970 said:

I just think he was way out his depth. You cannot blag your way through life, you will get found out in the end. 

A complete fraud. The constant assertion that he needed more players, different players, more leaders, different clubs in the bag culminating in over 60 players signed over 9 transfer windows only served him to cover his lack of coaching skills and the ability to build a team. Once the majority of Steve Cotterill's side had been moved on his weaknesses were laid bare for everyone to see.

You may gather I wasn't and never was a fan either as a player or manager. 

  • Like 8
  • Confused 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

A complete fraud

Ali Dai was a fraud and found out instantly. 

Lee Johnson is a professional and lasted 4 years as our manager, an industry where careers are short lived. 

Let's get some perspective on this. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Selred said:

Ali Dai was a fraud and found out instantly. 

Lee Johnson is a professional and lasted 4 years as our manager, an industry where careers are short lived. 

Let's get some perspective on this. 

Right. 

If Lee Johnson was actually a fraud then @CodeRed must think we had a squad that would run away in this division under a decent manager.

Clearly that isn't the case, and a fair statement is that Lee Johnson did a decent job overall, but didn't have the ability to ultimately achieve his targets.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, CodeRed said:

A complete fraud. The constant assertion that he needed more players, different players, more leaders, different clubs in the bag culminating in over 60 players signed over 9 transfer windows only served him to cover his lack of coaching skills and the ability to build a team. Once the majority of Steve Cotterill's side had been moved on his weaknesses were laid bare for everyone to see.

You may gather I wasn't and never was a fan either as a player or manager. 

Why people sabotage their own arguments by stating they weren’t a fan of him ‘as a player’ I’ll never know.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Shaun Taylor, as you’ve probably read a mixed view on lee here. I guess like about every manager. 
 

Lee has helped Bristol City become a stable championship team. The cup run was obviously the highlight of his time here and if I’m honest was probably the time for him to leave as I think his reputation was at an all time high then. I have no doubt that Lee wanted to succeed here and in many ways probably too much (as daft as that sounds), and to out achieve his father.

Negatives , although our league position improved year on year (until last season) our style of play deteriorated. As many have already stated, a lack of clear playing style, constant change of formation & players didn’t help (probably had too many players to pick from) our best performances came when we had limited players available for selection. For me I believe his biggest fault is to tries to be too clever and over complicate things 

Edited by daored
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, daored said:

@Shaun Taylor, as you’ve probably read a mixed view on lee here. I guess like about every manager. 
 

Lee has helped Bristol City become a stable championship team. The cup run was obviously the highlight of his time here and if I’m honest was probably the time for him to leave as I think his reputation was at an all time high then. I have no doubt that Lee wanted to succeed here and in many ways probably too much (as daft as that sounds), and to out achieve his father.

Negatives , although our league position improved year on year (until last season) our style of play deteriorated. As many have already stated, a lack of clear playing style, constant change of formation & players didn’t help (probably had too many players to pick from) our best performances came when we had limited players available for selection. For me I believe his biggest fault is to tries to be too clever and over complicate things 

You make some good points and no doubts it was time for a change but I don't understand why some fans wouldn't wan him to succeed elsewhere as he did leave Bristol City in a good place even though he couldn't get you that elusive promotion 

Edited by Shaun Taylor
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

Right. 

If Lee Johnson was actually a fraud then @CodeRed must think we had a squad that would run away in this division under a decent manager.

Clearly that isn't the case, and a fair statement is that Lee Johnson did a decent job overall, but didn't have the ability to ultimately achieve his targets.

Not quite sure I follow the logic.

LJ left us with an mess of a squad. That was after 4 years and umpteen transfer windows. 

The midfield ‘legacy’ was horrendous. A set of mini-me’s who would be overrun by the physicality of any moderate League 1 side. 

 

Credit to Dean, he knew the problem existed and immeadiately elected to play 5 across the middle to plaster over the cracks, then has tried to address the problem is a priority this Summer. 

Nope, LJ had some strengths but building a balanced squad and, more importantly a functioning team of quality players, was not one of them.

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Not quite sure I follow the logic.

LJ left us with an mess of a squad. That was after 4 years and umpteen transfer windows. 

The midfield ‘legacy’ was horrendous. A set of mini-me’s who would be overrun by the physicality of any moderate League 1 side. 

 

Credit to Dean, he knew the problem existed and immeadiately elected to play 5 across the middle to plaster over the cracks, then has tried to address the problem is a priority this Summer. 

Nope, LJ had some strengths but building a balanced squad and, more importantly a functioning team of quality players, was not one of them.

If LJ was a fraud he would have dramatically underperformed.

That isn't what happened. 

Every season bar last season the squad finished roughly where it would have been put if teams were being ranked on squad strength alone, essentially the team finished where it "should".

If LJ was a fraud, or clueless or any of the other nonsense that gets thrown around (not just at LJ, but at managers when they are criticised in general) then that side would have been bottom half more often than not.

I didn't claim that LJ had any strengths, nor what they were, so your entire last 3 paragraphs are utterly irrelevant. 

It's really not very difficult, did LJ underperform last season? Yes.

Is LJ a fraud? No.

If he was a fraud he would have been exposed within a couple of months, he certainly wouldn't have taken us to a League Cup semi final and 2 consecutive seasons of fighting for the playoffs, even with Messi and Ronaldo in the squad.

 

Calling him a fraud is hyperbole of the highest order. 

Squad building is clearly a weakness, but finishing 11th, 8th and 12th with a squad that was probably around the 10th best in the division is what I'd call pretty average.

A fraud would have been in a relegation scrap for all 3 seasons.

And a 'messiah' would have won the league.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ Didn’t claim he was a ‘fraud’.

Just don’t think he was particularly good and suspect, any decent manager, even having to sell our best players would have done better.

Brentford and Preston both had stronger squads at the end of last season and better league positions than us. They operated under a similar strategy. We had the advantage over them of stability, finances, crowd, stadium, Academy and all the toys a boy could possibly want. 

Anyhow, he’s gone and Dean, despite my reservations over his appointment, seemingly has corrected many of the faults in a very short time. He’s needs time, but a good start imo. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

If LJ was a fraud he would have dramatically underperformed.

That isn't what happened. 

Every season bar last season the squad finished roughly where it would have been put if teams were being ranked on squad strength alone, essentially the team finished where it "should".

If LJ was a fraud, or clueless or any of the other nonsense that gets thrown around (not just at LJ, but at managers when they are criticised in general) then that side would have been bottom half more often than not.

I didn't claim that LJ had any strengths, nor what they were, so your entire last 3 paragraphs are utterly irrelevant. 

It's really not very difficult, did LJ underperform last season? Yes.

Is LJ a fraud? No.

If he was a fraud he would have been exposed within a couple of months, he certainly wouldn't have taken us to a League Cup semi final and 2 consecutive seasons of fighting for the playoffs, even with Messi and Ronaldo in the squad.

 

Calling him a fraud is hyperbole of the highest order. 

Squad building is clearly a weakness, but finishing 11th, 8th and 12th with a squad that was probably around the 10th best in the division is what I'd call pretty average.

A fraud would have been in a relegation scrap for all 3 seasons.

And a 'messiah' would have won the league.

So, LJ had little influence then?

I’m being facetious, I don’t think he was a fraud, but perhaps a top coach (define that however you want) would have done better than “pretty average” with the resources available?

That’s kinda my argument.  If he was as good a coach as stated by lots of people, wouldn’t you expect him to have done better than expected?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, LJ had little influence then?

I’m being facetious, I don’t think he was a fraud, but perhaps a top coach (define that however you want) would have done better than “pretty average” with the resources available?

That’s kinda my argument.  If he was as good a coach as stated by lots of people, wouldn’t you expect him to have done better than expected?

That's what I am saying though Dave.

A top coach would have done better, a fraud would have done worse.

LJ did about as expected, he was a fairly average Championship manager or head coach.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, RedRock said:

^^^ Didn’t claim he was a ‘fraud’.

Just don’t think he was particularly good and suspect, any decent manager, even having to sell our best players would have done better.

Brentford and Preston both had stronger squads at the end of last season and better league positions than us. They operated under a similar strategy. We had the advantage over them of stability, finances, crowd, stadium, Academy and all the toys a boy could possibly want. 

Anyhow, he’s gone and Dean, despite my reservations over his appointment, seemingly has corrected many of the faults in a very short time. He’s needs time, but a good start imo. 

No, but your post was challenging mine which was responding to LJ being called a fraud (indirectly, as it was an agreement with the post by @Selred).

I will say there are a couple of parts of my post which could perhaps have been worded better by someone with better language skills than me, so that it didn't seem maybe as harsh. I just couldn't find any other way to try and explain my point.

I do struggle with turning my hought process into words to explain it, and sometimes the frustration with that struggle ends up in the post unintentionally. I certainly wasn't meaning to come across as having a go.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Not quite sure I follow the logic.

LJ left us with an mess of a squad. That was after 4 years and umpteen transfer windows. 

The midfield ‘legacy’ was horrendous. A set of mini-me’s who would be overrun by the physicality of any moderate League 1 side. 

 

Credit to Dean, he knew the problem existed and immeadiately elected to play 5 across the middle to plaster over the cracks, then has tried to address the problem is a priority this Summer. 

Nope, LJ had some strengths but building a balanced squad and, more importantly a functioning team of quality players, was not one of them.

Huh? If the midfield would be overrun by any moderate League 1 side, how come we consistently ended up mid table in the Championship? That is drivel I’m afraid.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, LJ had little influence then?

I’m being facetious, I don’t think he was a fraud, but perhaps a top coach (define that however you want) would have done better than “pretty average” with the resources available?

That’s kinda my argument.  If he was as good a coach as stated by lots of people, wouldn’t you expect him to have done better than expected?

Forgive me for a second response, but to kind of build on what is said below.

Not aimed at you, but just to further clear thing up (I hope)

 

4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Huh? If the midfield would be overrun by any moderate League 1 side, how come we consistently ended up mid table in the Championship? That is drivel I’m afraid.

the point I'm making can maybe be explained like this. 

 

If LJ was so bad, then the squad must have been amazing to have got the results it did in spite of him.

But, if as is said in the post Leveller quotes, and our midfield was one that could be overrun by half decent any League 1 side, then LJ can't have been that bad or our results would have been so much worse.

Clearly it's a middle ground in both cases. Johnson did a decent job (moved us on from when he came in, but a better manager would have achieved more with the same backing. Gone from being seen in the wider footballing world as relegation battlers to dark horses for the playoffs), but not an outstanding one.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Forgive me for a second response, but to kind of build on what is said below.

Not aimed at you, but just to further clear thing up (I hope)

 

the point I'm making can maybe be explained like this. 

 

If LJ was so bad, then the squad must have been amazing to have got the results it did in spite of him.

But, if as is said in the post Leveller quotes, and our midfield was one that could be overrun by half decent any League 1 side, then LJ can't have been that bad or our results would have been so much worse.

Clearly it's a middle ground in both cases. Johnson did a decent job (moved us on from when he came in, but a better manager would have achieved more with the same backing. Gone from being seen in the wider footballing world as relegation battlers to dark horses for the playoffs), but not an outstanding one.

 

I would say that you have summarised things well he done a decent job from start to finish and just fell short at the end and it was probably time for a change to suit both parties 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Red Skin said:

Did anyone actually listen?  How did he do?

I did

As someone who got completely fed up with aspects of LJ and particularly his post match interviews , Om not quite sure why but was intrigued.

 

Anyone who had spent four years listening to some of his interviews would have smiled at his talk of POMOs , pull back zones , and amongst many others his favourite of the night  'Pitch Personality'......

 

But , I have to say overall he was excellent

 

Relaxed , performing the perfect commentators aide , giving insight ,into,  a mangers plan , thoughts, tactical observations in the game and the changes during it, never interrupting, but providing interesting observations when invited - putting aside any pre conception or knowledge of him , he was one of the very best i've heard in that role.

He's clearly well read on the game  and I'd wager read numerous motivational and managerial books, possibly too well read...

He comes across as astute in observing the game but he gets carried away with some terminology and phrases he's picked up ('Pitch Personality')

He's in football and I can imagine a lot of eyebrows twitching , glances between players and a lot of p taking amongst players after listening to it continually

 

I thin he knows a lot , possibly confused himself cramming knowledge and needs to consider 'stripping back' his waffle when he gets a new job

 

As a pundit pre match , during match , and post match he was excellent overall, interesting and polished and worth listening to if he's on again.

Edited by Sheltons Army
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

I thin he knows a lot , possibly confused himself cramming knowledge and needs tp consider 'stripping back' his waffle when he gets a new jo

Thanks for the summary.

I got fed up with the johnsonisms in the end, but for most part I enjoyed his interviews and his manner.  Always honest (maybe too much so in terms of calling out players), calm and patient in the face of some 'stupid questions' at time.  Was fed up with his football, but remains for me really likeable human. 😜 

What you say about overcomplicating things is definitely true of his tactics.  I think the players need simple instructions and more freedom to play and responsibility to make decisions.  It's like players like O'Dowda need to be de-indoctrinated.  Feels like they might need a preseason with Prevent to undo some of the damage! 

  • Like 1
  • Robin 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...