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Central midfield


Eddie Notgetinya

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So, 3-5-2 is the system. DH has said he wants to trim the squad, and he will need to if the atmosphere in the camp is to be a good one. With wingers seemingly out of the equation there is now a massive number of players fighting for 3 places in central midfield. Some are capable of playing in other positions so it makes sense to retain them, but, there are better players keeping them out of those positions which essentially leaves the following TWELVE players fighting it out:

Morrel

Williams

Brunt

Walsh

Nagy

Massengo

Paterson

Weimann

Palmer

O’Dowda 

Eliasson

Bakinson

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Walsh - Morrell - Williams would be my preferred three.

Nagy hasn't done enough for me. Not sure he's capable of being a connector between midfield and attack in the Championship. He seems to move between the lines, but fail to occupy good enough positions to receive the ball (i.e drops too deep or not deep enough). Definitely the sort of player that exceeds with an extra 2-3 seconds on the ball, and who would be the envy of our fans was he playing in a possession oriented side who could shift the ball around the midfield all day and guarantee the deeper midfield players an extra bit of thinking time on the ball.

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CMs.

Eliasson - No

O'Dowda- No

Palmer- No

Weimann- No

Bakinson- Loan out

Brunt would be down the list a bit IMO.

Paterson yes, quite capable in a 3, with the possibility of goals too. Shoehorning in Weimann or varied others, not really.

Nagy absolutely fine if we want more control and again within a 3. How can we not aspire to more possession and control with what we have.

I'd go with the injuries, Nagy, Morrell and Paterson Saturday in and around CM. The latter can also pull left and into a '10' role in-game as and when.

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13 minutes ago, BCFC OF HUSKVARNA said:

Dean will always start with Weimann, so its only two places in the midfield over for the others.

Sadly I think you are right, Dean seems to have as big a love-in for Weimann as LJ did. Weimann should be starting on the bench each game for me, we have much better midfield, and indeed up front options, than him.

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I cannot fathom OTIB's desire to write off Nagy as either not good enough or "to sell". 

He had an injury hit first season disrupted by a global pandemic in a new country with a manager who has been lambasted for not utilising his players in a suitable fashion. 

We haven't really seen much of Nagy yet, but there's been enough flashes there to make me think he could be a very good player at this level.

It's been a long time since we've had a player comfortable with the ball, willing to show for the ball but (unlike Pack, who would do those things) also capable of changing the pace of the play. 

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16 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

I cannot fathom OTIB's desire to write off Nagy as either not good enough or "to sell". 

He had an injury hit first season disrupted by a global pandemic in a new country with a manager who has been lambasted for not utilising his players in a suitable fashion. 

We haven't really seen much of Nagy yet, but there's been enough flashes there to make me think he could be a very good player at this level.

It's been a long time since we've had a player comfortable with the ball, willing to show for the ball but (unlike Pack, who would do those things) also capable of changing the pace of the play. 

Pack also had aerial strength, offered protection to the back four, and a bit of physicality. Nagy was an odd replacement as he’s a totally different type of player. He looked busy, tidy at times, but probably better suited to playing abroad rather than the physical championship. All that nonsense with him going off with Hungary two months on the trot, whilst declaring himself unfit to play for us, probably hasn’t helped his case here either. Choice of losing Nagy or Massengo, I’d keep Massengo all day long. 

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10 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

I cannot fathom OTIB's desire to write off Nagy as either not good enough or "to sell". 

He had an injury hit first season disrupted by a global pandemic in a new country with a manager who has been lambasted for not utilising his players in a suitable fashion. 

We haven't really seen much of Nagy yet, but there's been enough flashes there to make me think he could be a very good player at this level.

It's been a long time since we've had a player comfortable with the ball, willing to show for the ball but (unlike Pack, who would do those things) also capable of changing the pace of the play. 

Completely agree. People were raving about him on here when he first played (think it was Brum away and then QPR at Home where he scored) saying that he absolutely looks the part. He picked up that injury on international duty in the September, and that then completely set him back and also seemed to cause a rift with LJ. Anyone who thinks he can’t connect defence with attack obviously wasn’t at Craven Cottage last year, when I saw him popping up all over the place in advanced positions, combining really well with Weimann and Fam. He even laid on the 2nd goal for Fam after what was a exquisite team move. 
 

Don’t forget he was the player to cover the most ground on average per game in Serie A when we bought him off Bologna, and apparently he came out on top of this pre-season’s fitness tests. I personally think there is a very good technical player in there who could really thrive this campaign, and I really hope he does. 
 

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2 hours ago, BCFC OF HUSKVARNA said:

Dean will always start with Weimann, so its only two places in the midfield over for the others.

 

1 hour ago, old_eastender said:

Sadly I think you are right, Dean seems to have as big a love-in for Weimann as LJ did. Weimann should be starting on the bench each game for me, we have much better midfield, and indeed up front options, than him.

 

Here we go......

We haven't even started the season and posters  are stating Dean has a love-in for a player who is undroppable. Perhaps we should at least give the new Manager the benefit of the doubt? Let's see how his line up works and develops.

Have you guys completely forgotten there are other coaching staff involved in the process?

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10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

It's just going on what it looks like Holden wants.

How many midfielders do we need to compete for those 3 places?

He said on the radio he prefers working with a smaller squad.

Who do we sell or loan out?

Only Deano and his assistants will know that but I doubt that Massengo,Walsh, Morrell and Nagy will be going anywhere.

He certainly has a plethora of option in the engine room. Be fascinating to see who starts today.

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17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

It's just going on what it looks like Holden wants.

How many midfielders do we need to compete for those 3 places?

He said on the radio he prefers working with a smaller squad.

Who do we sell or loan out?

I don't know, Jon, honestly. I could give you my personal preferences of who I'd want to keep but they would just be my own preferences. 

I know we've shipped Szmodics and Eisa out after not giving them a chance but Nagy has actually played a part in the first team and I don't see him as the most likely candidate to go, and his relative lack of first team action was mainly down to injury. Like @Robbored says, today's lineup might give us a better idea of what Holden wants to do, I think there were too many midfielders unavailable to read into last week's selection.

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8 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Walsh - Morrell - Williams would be my preferred three.

Nagy hasn't done enough for me. Not sure he's capable of being a connector between midfield and attack in the Championship. He seems to move between the lines, but fail to occupy good enough positions to receive the ball (i.e drops too deep or not deep enough). Definitely the sort of player that exceeds with an extra 2-3 seconds on the ball, and who would be the envy of our fans was he playing in a possession oriented side who could shift the ball around the midfield all day and guarantee the deeper midfield players an extra bit of thinking time on the ball.

Personally I think Paterson will be one of the regulars in the starting 3.  He is our most “productive and creative” players, with numbers to back it up.

54 minutes ago, sinenomine said:

I cannot fathom OTIB's desire to write off Nagy as either not good enough or "to sell". 

He had an injury hit first season disrupted by a global pandemic in a new country with a manager who has been lambasted for not utilising his players in a suitable fashion. 

We haven't really seen much of Nagy yet, but there's been enough flashes there to make me think he could be a very good player at this level.

It's been a long time since we've had a player comfortable with the ball, willing to show for the ball but (unlike Pack, who would do those things) also capable of changing the pace of the play. 

Think we just need to wait and see....he has come back from pre-season fully fit, had a year behind him both in terms of Championship and this country.

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Only Deano and his assistants will know that but I doubt that Massengo,Walsh, Morrell and Nagy will be going anywhere.

He certainly has a plethora of option in the engine room. Be fascinating to see who starts today.

Yep...and it’s a congested season.

There won’t be many sides who could relatively easy completely swap their CM3 game to game during a congested period.

We could easily go:

Williams / Morrell / Paterson one game and Nagy / Brunt / Walsh the next.

Thats not a bad position to be in, and I didn’t even mention Bakinson, Palmer, Massengo, O’Dowda, Eliasson.

Yes we have too many, Dean knows that, he’s said so too.  4+ weeks left in the window.  No need to be hasty.

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The difficulty of changing the team every game as LJ tended to do is that it does have a negative effect on the morale of the squad.
 

Regular starters begin to fret about whether they’d be in the team next game. Now that might motivate some but in the main it has a negative effect.

However.....if Deano has told the squad that rotation is likely that would ease the frustration some players might feel.

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I think it will be Weimann, Morrell and Paterson today but can see any or all those players losing their place as form fluctuates and the season wares on.

I can see Weimann ultimately becoming a forward option, Bakinson being emergency back 3 cover and Palmer, Eliasson and O’Dowda going on loans or permanents leaving 7 for the 3 places.

Think Walsh will play a big part once he signs a contract, Williams too once fit and think Brunt will get a fair number of games but either from the bench or being subbed soon after the hour mark

Massengo and Nagy are the two unknowns for me. I can see Nagy going but I can equally see him forcing himself right back into the frame.

I still think the major issue for him last season, bar fitness, was an inconsistency of midfield formations and a tendency to use him as a holding player whereas, if someone else can hold, I can see hin being way more effective with license to get around the pitch. I think at the moment we’re judging a player who was rarely used to his strengths. If Holden can find a way to do that, we might see the player we thought we had after QPR...

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5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think it will be Weimann, Morrell and Paterson today but can see any or all those players losing their place as form fluctuates and the season wares on.

I can see Weimann ultimately becoming a forward option, Bakinson being emergency back 3 cover and Palmer, Eliasson and O’Dowda going on loans or permanents leaving 7 for the 3 places.

Think Walsh will play a big part once he signs a contract, Williams too once fit and think Brunt will get a fair number of games but either from the bench or being subbed soon after the hour mark

Massengo and Nagy are the two unknowns for me. I can see Nagy going but I can equally see him forcing himself right back into the frame.

I still think the major issue for him last season, bar fitness, was an inconsistency of midfield formations and a tendency to use him as a holding player whereas, if someone else can hold, I can see hin being way more effective with license to get around the pitch. I think at the moment we’re judging a player who was rarely used to his strengths. If Holden can find a way to do that, we might see the player we thought we had after QPR...

So agree, he’s not a defensive midfielder, he’s not defensively disciplined / aware.  He plays as the base of the midfield for Hungary as part of their way of building possession / attacks, not ultimately to be the fire putter-outer.  If he can find a role that’s more box-to-box we will see the best of him.

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Once they're all fit I like many would favour a 3 of Morrell, Williams and Walsh but until then I think it will be one of Morrell or Massengo along with Paterson and duracell bunny Weimann with Brunt and Nagy on the bench. There has to be someone in the middle of the park who will take it to the opposition and commit their players, and as good as they are I don't see Massengo and Nagy doing that. 

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20 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The difficulty of changing the team every game as LJ tended to do is that it does have a negative effect on the morale of the squad.
 

Regular starters begin to fret about whether they’d be in the team next game. Now that might motivate some but in the main it has a negative effect.

However.....if Deano has told the squad that rotation is likely that would ease the frustration some players might feel.

I think the chopping and changing of formations by LJ - sometimes during the game - was the bigger issue. Consistency has got to help confidence. Easier to switch players in and out if a midfielder knows he’s in a 3 whatever happens. Same for a CB in a back 3. Pack and Brownhill were knackered in past seasons because they were the only option; great to now have options. 

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1 hour ago, KnowleUtd City said:

Pack also had aerial strength, offered protection to the back four, and a bit of physicality. Nagy was an odd replacement as he’s a totally different type of player. He looked busy, tidy at times, but probably better suited to playing abroad rather than the physical championship. All that nonsense with him going off with Hungary two months on the trot, whilst declaring himself unfit to play for us, probably hasn’t helped his case here either. Choice of losing Nagy or Massengo, I’d keep Massengo all day long. 

There's a common saying, almost cliché about it taking some foreign imports a year to get used to the football in England. 

There is also the story of Pisano after a game (Reading away?) in the dressing room afterwards saying "it's so fast" over and over.

An up and down season from someone in their first season here is to be expected.

There are players more talented than Nagy who took more than a season before they found their feet in English football, just because it wasn't all great in year 1 doesn't mean he isn't cut out for it.

 

There needs to be a change in the mentality where if the first month isn't stellar then the player has to go.

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45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So agree, he’s not a defensive midfielder, he’s not defensively disciplined / aware.  He plays as the base of the midfield for Hungary as part of their way of building possession / attacks, not ultimately to be the fire putter-outer.  If he can find a role that’s more box-to-box we will see the best of him.

This is absolutely key for me. Put Nagy alongside Morrell (playing in a similar holding role to the one he's been playing for Wales) and I think he can be one of the best box-to-box midfielders in the league I really do if now truelly injury free.

The 5 getting the most minutes for me (rotated around form and fixtures) would be Williams, Morrell, Walsh, Nagy and Paterson. With Kasey coming in for Paterson as required and Brunt coming off the bench often to see out games or add a different option with his top delivery when chasing games.

Weimann I can see starting a lot of games up top if Fam leaves as I now expect.

The above for me has the potential to be a top 6 midfield.

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15 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

This is absolutely key for me. Put Nagy alongside Morrell (playing in a similar holding role to the one he's been playing for Wales) and I think he can be one of the best box-to-box midfielders in the league I really do if now truelly injury free.

The 5 getting the most minutes for me (rotated around form and fixtures) would be Williams, Morrell, Walsh, Nagy and Paterson. With Kasey coming in for Paterson as required and Brunt coming off the bench often to see out games or add a different option with his top delivery when chasing games.

Weimann I can see starting a lot of games up top if Fam leaves as I now expect.

The above for me has the potential to be a top 6 midfield.

I tend to agree (injuries aside).

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20 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

This is absolutely key for me. Put Nagy alongside Morrell (playing in a similar holding role to the one he's been playing for Wales) and I think he can be one of the best box-to-box midfielders in the league I really do if now truelly injury free.

The 5 getting the most minutes for me (rotated around form and fixtures) would be Williams, Morrell, Walsh, Nagy and Paterson. With Kasey coming in for Paterson as required and Brunt coming off the bench often to see out games or add a different option with his top delivery when chasing games.

Weimann I can see starting a lot of games up top if Fam leaves as I now expect.

The above for me has the potential to be a top 6 midfield.

Massengo??

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3 hours ago, YGBjammy said:

I think this dilemma could be our downfall this season. I predict we will chop and change that 3 almost every game seeking "the perfect combination" and never really find it, and never really giving those players the consistency they need and all the fans say they want.

There is a big difference between 'chopping and changing' and rotating.  LJ managed to lurch between not rotating enough and chopping and changing too much. 

If Dean's seeking the perfect combination he's not thinking right.  The schedule means that during the heart of the season he will have to rotate game to game out of necessity.  2/3 changes each game to a set way of playing works.  Dropping players in from nowhere to an experimental formation doesn't.  

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Centrally. Love the idea of Walsh, Williams & Morrell; But we haven’t seen them play together yet, on paper they seem to have the individual attributes to compliment - it may need time to bed in.

I wouldn’t write off Massengo yet, just come through a full season in the Championship, so has more experience at this level and will have developed mentally as well as physically. 

Nagy, something wasn’t right last season but he did show some skills & you hope he’s settled now & will need to do better as I reckon DH is going to be ruthless in selections. 

Will be interesting to see who comes through this season as our fulcrum in the centre. With the intensity of games we’ll see rotation but want DH to get our midfield solid again. 

Ultimately having 5 core options for 3 CM spots seems the minimum. Add in Bakinson for back up and this can cover us throughout the season as we struggle in Jan transfer windows plus also the attacking mods we have too.

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6 minutes ago, extonsred said:

Really felt last season Massengo should be playing a more forward role. Skilful, energy but too deep to use his creativity. 

Yeah I'd be interested in that too.

I think it was his first game I remember him playing a ball out wide from midfield, then bursting into the box in front of the South Stand to get on the end of the resulting cross - heading over unfortunately. At the time I was stunned as that's not what we're used to seeing from our midfield! Would be good to see if that's what he's really going to be best at. He seemed to play quite far back against Exeter, often covering holes in the back line or trying to win back the ball.

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People saying Holden always chooses Weimann.
What are you basing this on? Last 5 games he went with Weimann as that was available at the time. Last week Walsh, Williams injured Nagy Morrell international duty so available limited. 
Today still 2 injured, one not match fit along with other knocks etc won’t prove his love in for Weinman if he plays today for me. 
 

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