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Kasey Palmer


Pickle Rick

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6 hours ago, Prinny said:

EFL cup 2nd round vs Northampton.

This is not when it really matters.

It’s a cup win, it’s more cash in the pot, it’s about not having egg on our faces after the match.  Total professional performance. That’s how you deal with lower opposition, who dealt with Cardiff in the 1st round.

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The performance would have done his confidence the world of good, and he looks like he is a confidence player. A slow burner in last night’s game. The commentator just before HT said he needed to be further up the pitch and this seemed to change in the second half. Maybe it is because we have one of the assistant managers watching from the stand we are picking up these things that have to be tweaked now.

A lovely headache for Dean on Sunday. The passing and interacting between players and hearing instructions shouted to them was refreshing. I’ve been a harsh critic of Holden &Co but he is in credit from me on last nights performance. It’s not about the opposition, it’s about the way we are wanting to play.

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10 hours ago, Red Army 79 said:

To be able to do it consistently he needs to play consistently. Hopefully this will be the turning point for him and will be managed differently. It does seem he has been the scapegoat. Not playing him could have cost us a play off place last season. 

I was listening to Radio Bristol and Chris Honor was very critical of him in the first half, but effusive in his praise in the second. I think that just shows his inconsistency. 

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4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I was listening to Radio Bristol and Chris Honor was very critical of him in the first half, but effusive in his praise in the second. I think that just shows his inconsistency. 

I'm not sure the inconsistency point is fair in this case. Northampton came out the box flying in the first 20/30 mins and the whole side had to 'earn the right' to get the ball down and play to use a dodgy footballing phrase. Also important to remember Kasey has only started something like one competitive game since November last year and didn't get too many minutes in preseason away from 60 mins in the second Aston Villa game from what I can make out so a slow start from him yesterday was understandable imo and getting a full confidence boosting 90 mins under his belt yesterday will do him the world of good going forward! 

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I really hope we either make use of him this season or otherwise can get back what we invested, but it is worth pointing out Northampton put out a far weaker side last night than they did against Cardiff.

They treated that game (their first) as preparation for their opening league game, last night they rested several players for their next one.

It is encouraging that he (& others) played well, but a weakened League One side is not comparable with upcoming games against Stoke, Watford, Norwich or Bournemouth.

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16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I really hope we either make use of him this season or otherwise can get back what we invested, but it is worth pointing out Northampton put out a far weaker side last night than they did against Cardiff.

They treated that game (their first) as preparation for their opening league game, last night they rested several players for their next one.

It is encouraging that he (& others) played well, but a weakened League One side is not comparable with upcoming games against Stoke, Watford, Norwich or Bournemouth.

You seem a very knowledgeable football man Graham but just don’t understand why you do not seem to rate Palmer at all?  He was superb and previously wrongly in my opinion people have questioned his work rate but that was exceptional last night. He is technically gifted and just needs a run of games although doesn’t start for me at the moment as Pato has earned that right. Whatever your view and opposition, that was a fantastic make or break performance from him.

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43 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I was listening to Radio Bristol and Chris Honor was very critical of him in the first half, but effusive in his praise in the second. I think that just shows his inconsistency. 

In what way was Chris critical of him?  The only thing I thought from the first half was he was too deep...with Tinnion pointed out.  He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball and worked hard without it.  Second half he was very good.

33 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

I'm not sure the inconsistency point is fair in this case. Northampton came out the box flying in the first 20/30 mins and the whole side had to 'earn the right' to get the ball down and play to use a dodgy footballing phrase. Also important to remember Kasey has only started something like one competitive game since November last year and didn't get too many minutes in preseason away from 60 mins in the second Aston Villa game from what I can make out so a slow start from him yesterday was understandable imo and getting a full confidence boosting 90 mins under his belt yesterday will do him the world of good going forward! 

Yep, the kind of game where if you give them an inch, you end up losing.  We fought hard first 25 minutes and eventually started to work the ball from side to side, moving Northampton about, eventually creating the one on ones we needed to get chances.  It’s easy to look at the game as we didn’t do much in that initial period, but defensively we were excellent...we allowed very few balls into our box, which is where the danger would come from.  We were very well organised.  People seem to forget there’s 11 opposition players trying to stop City playing, and their front 3 looked like they could cause us problems if we allowed diags into our box.

As for Kasey, yes, hasn’t played much at all, not even pre-season, so he looked like he was easing himself in, making sure he got the basics right, before his “swagger” returned second half.

5 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

You seem a very knowledgeable football man Graham but just don’t understand why you do not seem to rate Palmer at all?  He was superb and previously wrongly in my opinion people have questioned his work rate but that was exceptional last night. He is technically gifted and just needs a run of games although doesn’t start for me at the moment as Pato has earned that right. Whatever your view and opposition, that was a fantastic make or break performance from him.

He’s never been lazy, just wastes energy with inefficient pressing.

Re the Cobblers line up, Joe Martin (son of Alvin) came in, and he’s played 300+ games across the EFL divisions, so not a kid.  The keeper, Mitchell, is on loan from Derby, and has played a number of apps on loan over the last few years.  The only other changes were Chukwuemeka (debut) and Sam Hoskins (150+ games)....so I’d suggest it was a gentle rotation, rather than a weakened team.

Back to Palmer, assuming he’s stays, it’s down to him to keep putting pressure on Paterson (which will be good for Pato too, as he has spells where he slips into complacent mode, although he is playing for a new contract).  I get the impression that Holden will operate a fairer selection policy, so I don’t expect KP to only get one game to prove his worth should he get back in the team.

Its just nice to see players giving positive performances.

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11 hours ago, Chivs said:

Honestly!

He was playing against a second-rate team who barely got out of third gear.

 

I get this, but how many times have we struggled against exactly this type of opposition? FA Cup, Shrewsbury (twice) anyone?

Players showed up in a non-glamourous tie for once, something KP in particular would probably be accused of not doing

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While accepting that it was a lower league side, it did seem to me that there was a different “feel” to the team last night as compared to last season’s LJ team.

Under LJ all to often it felt to me that we were playing to orders, so that all too often we looked like we were playing with the brakes on and players trying not to mistakes. In those circumstances I often felt that KP was like a 78 record being played at 45rpm. He would be looking to make something happen while the rest of the team was more concerned about not doing anything wrong.

Last night all 11 players were on the same wavelength, with the result that we played with pace and plenty of movement, allowing KP’s game to enhance our play, and especially in the final third which is where you want him making a real difference. For me KP made us tick last night, but only because he had every other player giving him options.

Im sure many fans have previously seen him as a luxury player, but is that because he’s been viewed agains the background of LJ’s pragmatic teams? Playing like he did last night showed that with the right players around him, playing the right way he could be the missing piece in the puzzle of getting us playing the type f football that not only excites fans but wins matches.

I know it’s early days, and that tougher tests are yet to come, but if KP can maintain last night’s application and add consistency over a run of games than he will be giving DH a real selection headache that could see some prominent midfielders knowing on th head coach’s door!

 

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28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In what way was Chris critical of him?  The only thing I thought from the first half was he was too deep...with Tinnion pointed out.  He didn’t do anything wrong with the ball and worked hard without it.  Second half he was very good.

He said three or four times that he was trying one trick too many and slowing the game down when  quick ball was needed. I think he said at one point "His job is to make other players look good, not to try to make himself look good". I took it that he meant he needed to see his place in the team. 

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Just now, Port Said Red said:

He said three or four times that he was trying one trick too many and slowing the game down when  quick ball was needed. I think he said at one point "His job is to make other players look good, not to try to make himself look good". I took it that he meant he needed to see his place in the team. 

Probably the dumbest quote from a pundit I've seen in a long time.

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11 hours ago, phantom said:

I was watching coverage via Northampton that included Colin Calderwood as a summeriser.

He hit the nail on the head in the first half that Palmer was making the easy pass backwards when he had time and space to go forwards. 

Look at the restart to the second half how Palmer chased down their keeper forcing him to rush his clearance, from that moment on he was like a new signing. 

Something obviously clicked at half time and as the game progressed he got more and more confidence improving his game massively.

He was far from perfect, still losing the ball cheaply and on occasions lazy in back tracking 

But this is the Palmer we want to see more of this season. 

Can he do it week in week out against better opposition? Only time will tell 

He was coming too deep, getting on the ball in front of the back 4 and looking forwards seeing little movement (or passing lanes blocked by a compact Northampton midfield)

A few things changed, he played a bit higher, Northampton tired and their shape suffered, we moved the ball quicker and players moved more.

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1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

You seem a very knowledgeable football man Graham but just don’t understand why you do not seem to rate Palmer at all?  He was superb and previously wrongly in my opinion people have questioned his work rate but that was exceptional last night. He is technically gifted and just needs a run of games although doesn’t start for me at the moment as Pato has earned that right. Whatever your view and opposition, that was a fantastic make or break performance from him.

Thank you.

My view is this, Palmer is outstanding technically but (& I hope I avoid what is a bit of a cliche) he is inconsistent & too often for my liking he makes the wrong decision, so last season when he was dropped he was regularly either getting caught in possession in a dangerous area or was surrendering possession with a far too ambitious attempt at a pass in it.

I certainly don’t buy into the work rate criticism either (which seems ironically to a be a lazy one), his work rate though is sometimes misplaced, last season he was for ever committing silly fouls in his eagerness to retrieve the ball, often after he had been the one who had given it away.

This is a forum so I understand that people go from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, like Fam being the son of God prior to the Coventry game then apparently Bas Savage after it, but just think that a weakened promoted League One team is no true barometer for his abilities.

If he maintains this standard when Paterson’s inevitable drop in form happens he will fully deserve his chance.

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11 hours ago, phantom said:

Let's put it into perspective though. This was probably his best performance in a City shirt? 

Let's get excited when he's done it in the league on a consistent basis. 

Northampton were a poor side that can't be used as a benchmark. 

No argument there, just shows how things can change. I was one of the punters that thought he was a player that for some reason or another wasn't going to fit into citys plans. I now believe he's made a move to prove me wrong, I hope it continues, he obviously has the talent, he just has to produce it on a regular basis.

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

He said three or four times that he was trying one trick too many and slowing the game down when  quick ball was needed. I think he said at one point "His job is to make other players look good, not to try to make himself look good". I took it that he meant he needed to see his place in the team. 

Thanks.  Bit harsh from Chris imho, and sounds like a bit of unconscious bias coming out...but I didn’t hear it.  I don’t think he show-ponied at all in the first half, just think he was playing a bit safe - possibly worried about messing up having been given a chance.

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

He was coming too deep, getting on the ball in front of the back 4 and looking forwards seeing little movement (or passing lanes blocked by a compact Northampton midfield)

A few things changed, he played a bit higher, Northampton tired and their shape suffered, we moved the ball quicker and players moved more.

Yep, I agree, Tins criticism, was that he was coming too deep, doing the stuff / using the space that Mawson could.

53BC0057-C236-495D-B686-8E4D943C0D95.jpeg.c1627111d32919eb7b621bdc5af9082b.jpeg
⬆️⬆️⬆️ Sub appearance v Blackburn (1st game post- Covid) - no penetration in his passes, pretty passes with little impact.

6272C529-1F77-411D-80E6-E9E8EB2CEF7B.jpeg.72d50983f5f7882b954588f249c202b0.jpeg

⬆️⬆️⬆️ Last night v Cobblers

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⬆️⬆️⬆️ Birmingham (a) last season.  For some reason Wyscout have left off his assist for T.Rowe, but you see his work much higher up the pitch, in what was a tough match.

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I must admit, I've never seen this "lack of work rate" that others have and I don't blame him, or any other player for not performing last season. Even when he did play well (e.g. Shrewsbury at home in the cup), he was bombed out for the next game. 

People often call out WBA away as an example of his poor performance. I went to that game with 3 non City fans. They went to the bar at half-time whilst I sulked and were genuinely shocked when they came back to see he had been hauled off - felt he was our only player who looked remotely like he'd seen a football before. Brownhill had a stinker for their first goal yet he wasn't hauled off and thrown under the bus. 

How can you expect to motivate any player, or expect any player to perform well when they know they are always one mistake or one poor performance away from spending the next 10 games on the bench or not in the squad?

I'm not saying KP is the answer or that he should stay, but last nights performance didn't surprise me one bit. Paterson is rightly ahead of him at the moment but I think every single player should be given a clean slate and judged under Holden, not on what they did/didn't do for Lee Johnson because quite frankly, his man management of certain players was shocking. 

 

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59 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Thank you.

My view is this, Palmer is outstanding technically but (& I hope I avoid what is a bit of a cliche) he is inconsistent & too often for my liking he makes the wrong decision, so last season when he was dropped he was regularly either getting caught in possession in a dangerous area or was surrendering possession with a far too ambitious attempt at a pass in it.

I certainly don’t buy into the work rate criticism either (which seems ironically to a be a lazy one), his work rate though is sometimes misplaced, last season he was for ever committing silly fouls in his eagerness to retrieve the ball, often after he had been the one who had given it away.

This is a forum so I understand that people go from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, like Fam being the son of God prior to the Coventry game then apparently Bas Savage after it, but just think that a weakened promoted League One team is no true barometer for his abilities.

If he maintains this standard when Paterson’s inevitable drop in form happens he will fully deserve his chance.

I think the one thing that made a difference to Palmer's game was the other 10 players. 

Last season he was often trying too hard to make something happen with the rest of the team pretty static and the ball played slowly so he was under pressure in the wrong part of the pitch. 

Last night the pace and movement meant that KP was able to play much more in the last third, where he can do more damage. More importantly the rest of the team seemed to be on the same wavelength as him. 

Not everything came off for him. The difference is that a year ago that would have been his lot but last night more came off than didn't and what did affected the game positively. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks.  Bit harsh from Chris imho, and sounds like a bit of unconscious bias coming out...but I didn’t hear it.  I don’t think he show-ponied at all in the first half, just think he was playing a bit safe - possibly worried about messing up having been given a chance.

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

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2 minutes ago, phantom said:

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

It's ironic isn't it, because he's often criticized for over-playing it and losing possession. Perhaps he was just playing his way into the game.

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I've always felt that Palmer is a player that needs to be accommodated rather than trying to turn him into something he's not. LJ (who I probably have a higher opinion of than most) always had this notion that he'd sign a player and then they'd have to be indoctrinated into a certain way of playing. Which is fine, but it often ignores the things that a player does best. Palmer is and always was, best given a role where he the freedom to get on the ball, in space and dictate play in the final third. Holden played him in just a role, in the gap between midfield and attack and reaped the rewards. LJ always wanted his players to adapt his system rather than adapting his system to allow his best players to play (see Eliasson, Nicolas) and it's wasted an awful lot of talent in the last few years

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2 minutes ago, phantom said:

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

⬆️

I saw no evidence of that at all tbh.

What I saw was a player who was playing himself into the game.

Palmer is damned for trying to make the killer pass and damned for playing safe - he can't win with some.

As Fevs said, after a season of being hauled off for making a mistake and being left out of the squad, he probably played it safe in the first half. It wouldn't surprise me if Holden told him at half time to be himself a bit more, move a bit further up the pitch and get that swagger back that had probably been knocked out of him last season.

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I get this, but how many times have we struggled against exactly this type of opposition? FA Cup, Shrewsbury (twice) anyone?

Players showed up in a non-glamourous tie for once, something KP in particular would probably be accused of not doing

Spot on. Just for a change, LJ shirked any responsibility of his own for those dire Shrewsbury performances and blamed KP for doing the club out of £1m in lost revenue from that Liverpool game. We all knew the answer was closer to home.

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