Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

Probably the dumbest quote from a pundit I've seen in a long time.

No it's not. He was making the point that it was pointless beating three men or, coming up with some fancy flick if there is no end product, or it works to the detriment of the team.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, phantom said:

I was watching coverage via Northampton that included Colin Calderwood as a summeriser.

He hit the nail on the head in the first half that Palmer was making the easy pass backwards when he had time and space to go forwards. 

Look at the restart to the second half how Palmer chased down their keeper forcing him to rush his clearance, from that moment on he was like a new signing. 

Something obviously clicked at half time and as the game progressed he got more and more confidence improving his game massively.

He was far from perfect, still losing the ball cheaply and on occasions lazy in back tracking 

But this is the Palmer we want to see more of this season. 

Can he do it week in week out against better opposition? Only time will tell 

He was coming too deep, getting on the ball in front of the back 4 and looking forwards seeing little movement (or passing lanes blocked by a compact Northampton midfield)

A few things changed, he played a bit higher, Northampton tired and their shape suffered, we moved the ball quicker and players moved more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

You seem a very knowledgeable football man Graham but just don’t understand why you do not seem to rate Palmer at all?  He was superb and previously wrongly in my opinion people have questioned his work rate but that was exceptional last night. He is technically gifted and just needs a run of games although doesn’t start for me at the moment as Pato has earned that right. Whatever your view and opposition, that was a fantastic make or break performance from him.

Thank you.

My view is this, Palmer is outstanding technically but (& I hope I avoid what is a bit of a cliche) he is inconsistent & too often for my liking he makes the wrong decision, so last season when he was dropped he was regularly either getting caught in possession in a dangerous area or was surrendering possession with a far too ambitious attempt at a pass in it.

I certainly don’t buy into the work rate criticism either (which seems ironically to a be a lazy one), his work rate though is sometimes misplaced, last season he was for ever committing silly fouls in his eagerness to retrieve the ball, often after he had been the one who had given it away.

This is a forum so I understand that people go from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, like Fam being the son of God prior to the Coventry game then apparently Bas Savage after it, but just think that a weakened promoted League One team is no true barometer for his abilities.

If he maintains this standard when Paterson’s inevitable drop in form happens he will fully deserve his chance.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, phantom said:

Let's put it into perspective though. This was probably his best performance in a City shirt? 

Let's get excited when he's done it in the league on a consistent basis. 

Northampton were a poor side that can't be used as a benchmark. 

No argument there, just shows how things can change. I was one of the punters that thought he was a player that for some reason or another wasn't going to fit into citys plans. I now believe he's made a move to prove me wrong, I hope it continues, he obviously has the talent, he just has to produce it on a regular basis.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

He said three or four times that he was trying one trick too many and slowing the game down when  quick ball was needed. I think he said at one point "His job is to make other players look good, not to try to make himself look good". I took it that he meant he needed to see his place in the team. 

Thanks.  Bit harsh from Chris imho, and sounds like a bit of unconscious bias coming out...but I didn’t hear it.  I don’t think he show-ponied at all in the first half, just think he was playing a bit safe - possibly worried about messing up having been given a chance.

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

He was coming too deep, getting on the ball in front of the back 4 and looking forwards seeing little movement (or passing lanes blocked by a compact Northampton midfield)

A few things changed, he played a bit higher, Northampton tired and their shape suffered, we moved the ball quicker and players moved more.

Yep, I agree, Tins criticism, was that he was coming too deep, doing the stuff / using the space that Mawson could.

53BC0057-C236-495D-B686-8E4D943C0D95.jpeg.c1627111d32919eb7b621bdc5af9082b.jpeg
⬆️⬆️⬆️ Sub appearance v Blackburn (1st game post- Covid) - no penetration in his passes, pretty passes with little impact.

6272C529-1F77-411D-80E6-E9E8EB2CEF7B.jpeg.72d50983f5f7882b954588f249c202b0.jpeg

⬆️⬆️⬆️ Last night v Cobblers

E2CFB4B5-3183-4CD7-9B83-7802F49EA1C0.jpeg.63e9468e7e2c0f188e9ebd3186f60b06.jpeg

⬆️⬆️⬆️ Birmingham (a) last season.  For some reason Wyscout have left off his assist for T.Rowe, but you see his work much higher up the pitch, in what was a tough match.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit, I've never seen this "lack of work rate" that others have and I don't blame him, or any other player for not performing last season. Even when he did play well (e.g. Shrewsbury at home in the cup), he was bombed out for the next game. 

People often call out WBA away as an example of his poor performance. I went to that game with 3 non City fans. They went to the bar at half-time whilst I sulked and were genuinely shocked when they came back to see he had been hauled off - felt he was our only player who looked remotely like he'd seen a football before. Brownhill had a stinker for their first goal yet he wasn't hauled off and thrown under the bus. 

How can you expect to motivate any player, or expect any player to perform well when they know they are always one mistake or one poor performance away from spending the next 10 games on the bench or not in the squad?

I'm not saying KP is the answer or that he should stay, but last nights performance didn't surprise me one bit. Paterson is rightly ahead of him at the moment but I think every single player should be given a clean slate and judged under Holden, not on what they did/didn't do for Lee Johnson because quite frankly, his man management of certain players was shocking. 

 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Thank you.

My view is this, Palmer is outstanding technically but (& I hope I avoid what is a bit of a cliche) he is inconsistent & too often for my liking he makes the wrong decision, so last season when he was dropped he was regularly either getting caught in possession in a dangerous area or was surrendering possession with a far too ambitious attempt at a pass in it.

I certainly don’t buy into the work rate criticism either (which seems ironically to a be a lazy one), his work rate though is sometimes misplaced, last season he was for ever committing silly fouls in his eagerness to retrieve the ball, often after he had been the one who had given it away.

This is a forum so I understand that people go from 0-60 in the blink of an eye, like Fam being the son of God prior to the Coventry game then apparently Bas Savage after it, but just think that a weakened promoted League One team is no true barometer for his abilities.

If he maintains this standard when Paterson’s inevitable drop in form happens he will fully deserve his chance.

I think the one thing that made a difference to Palmer's game was the other 10 players. 

Last season he was often trying too hard to make something happen with the rest of the team pretty static and the ball played slowly so he was under pressure in the wrong part of the pitch. 

Last night the pace and movement meant that KP was able to play much more in the last third, where he can do more damage. More importantly the rest of the team seemed to be on the same wavelength as him. 

Not everything came off for him. The difference is that a year ago that would have been his lot but last night more came off than didn't and what did affected the game positively. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks.  Bit harsh from Chris imho, and sounds like a bit of unconscious bias coming out...but I didn’t hear it.  I don’t think he show-ponied at all in the first half, just think he was playing a bit safe - possibly worried about messing up having been given a chance.

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, phantom said:

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

It's ironic isn't it, because he's often criticized for over-playing it and losing possession. Perhaps he was just playing his way into the game.

Edited by Kibs
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always felt that Palmer is a player that needs to be accommodated rather than trying to turn him into something he's not. LJ (who I probably have a higher opinion of than most) always had this notion that he'd sign a player and then they'd have to be indoctrinated into a certain way of playing. Which is fine, but it often ignores the things that a player does best. Palmer is and always was, best given a role where he the freedom to get on the ball, in space and dictate play in the final third. Holden played him in just a role, in the gap between midfield and attack and reaped the rewards. LJ always wanted his players to adapt his system rather than adapting his system to allow his best players to play (see Eliasson, Nicolas) and it's wasted an awful lot of talent in the last few years

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, phantom said:

As I have written elsewhere I was watching via Northamptons iFollow last night, they had Colin Calderwood on there as a summeriser.

He said the same thing, Palmer was looking for the wrong ball. Many times he would pass the ball backwards when he had space and players available in front of him and no pressure on the bal

After he said it, it was really evident that Palmer was looking for the easy ball

⬆️

I saw no evidence of that at all tbh.

What I saw was a player who was playing himself into the game.

Palmer is damned for trying to make the killer pass and damned for playing safe - he can't win with some.

As Fevs said, after a season of being hauled off for making a mistake and being left out of the squad, he probably played it safe in the first half. It wouldn't surprise me if Holden told him at half time to be himself a bit more, move a bit further up the pitch and get that swagger back that had probably been knocked out of him last season.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I get this, but how many times have we struggled against exactly this type of opposition? FA Cup, Shrewsbury (twice) anyone?

Players showed up in a non-glamourous tie for once, something KP in particular would probably be accused of not doing

Spot on. Just for a change, LJ shirked any responsibility of his own for those dire Shrewsbury performances and blamed KP for doing the club out of £1m in lost revenue from that Liverpool game. We all knew the answer was closer to home.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I must admit, I've never seen this "lack of work rate" that others have and I don't blame him, or any other player for not performing last season. Even when he did play well (e.g. Shrewsbury at home in the cup), he was bombed out for the next game. 

People often call out WBA away as an example of his poor performance. I went to that game with 3 non City fans. They went to the bar at half-time whilst I sulked and were genuinely shocked when they came back to see he had been hauled off - felt he was our only player who looked remotely like he'd seen a football before. Brownhill had a stinker for their first goal yet he wasn't hauled off and thrown under the bus. 

How can you expect to motivate any player, or expect any player to perform well when they know they are always one mistake or one poor performance away from spending the next 10 games on the bench or not in the squad?

I'm not saying KP is the answer or that he should stay, but last nights performance didn't surprise me one bit. Paterson is rightly ahead of him at the moment but I think every single player should be given a clean slate and judged under Holden, not on what they did/didn't do for Lee Johnson because quite frankly, his man management of certain players was shocking. 

 

Yep, for the first 15 minutes that night, him and Weimann (another much maligned by some) passed and moved well, and it looked encouraging.  But we give a goal away, and we are all over the shop...AS A TEAM!

Palmer stuffs up on the edge of our box, and rightly culpable for his part in the goal.

But he’s the one, just recalled to the team who gets hauled off at h-t as LJ switches 5311 to 442....how many times did that happen?

9 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I think the one thing that made a difference to Palmer's game was the other 10 players. 

Last season he was often trying too hard to make something happen with the rest of the team pretty static and the ball played slowly so he was under pressure in the wrong part of the pitch. 

Last night the pace and movement meant that KP was able to play much more in the last third, where he can do more damage. More importantly the rest of the team seemed to be on the same wavelength as him. 

Not everything came off for him. The difference is that a year ago that would have been his lot but last night more came off than didn't and what did affected the game positively. 

 

Very true.  It’s no coincidence that Palmer’s better games have generally been when he’s had good movement ahead of him...typically the Weimann / Afobe partnership.  He hasn’t yet had a chance with Wells.  It’s one of the frustrations of the LJ era.

KP needs to keep working hard.  Can’t go too OTT about last night, but he’s set a bar for himself now.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

⬆️

I saw no evidence of that at all tbh.

What I saw was a player who was playing himself into the game.

Palmer is damned for trying to make the killer pass and damned for playing safe - he can't win with some.

As Fevs said, after a season of being hauled off for making a mistake and being left out of the squad, he probably played it safe in the first half. It wouldn't surprise me if Holden told him at half time to be himself a bit more, move a bit further up the pitch and get that swagger back that had probably been knocked out of him last season.

Just to clarify, until he has played himself into the game it's accepted that he passes the ball back needlessly, rather than play the ball forward?

Honestly, watch the first 30 minutes back., he did it on numerous occasions, when there was space and players in front of him

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shuffle said:

You seem a very knowledgeable football man Graham but just don’t understand why you do not seem to rate Palmer at all?  He was superb and previously wrongly in my opinion people have questioned his work rate but that was exceptional last night. He is technically gifted and just needs a run of games although doesn’t start for me at the moment as Pato has earned that right. Whatever your view and opposition, that was a fantastic make or break performance from him.

I will try

Problem 1    & Quote the wily experienced football man Tony Mowbray 'He doesn't know when to defend'

2 Unable to establish himself under four different managers to date - coincidence ?

 

He has some exceptional talent and at times in flashes does things where he looks too good for the Championship

But theres a lot more to becoming a regular part of a team at this level IMHO

A whole number of aspects to his '11 v 11' Championship game that need addressing

Seems a decent lad and prepared to work but needs improvement in some 11 v 11  fundimentals including when to perform his tricks and when to play the sensible option (Personally feel there are too many times he tries to beat players unneccissarily when I actually see him at his best when playing and moving and interracting more with teamates) (Was much better at this in second half last night)

 

He has the potential to be absolutely outstanding at this level but needs to play his part and role in the team and make more good decisions on and off the ball - How he has reached this point without doing so is surprising 

 

Poor coaching , or not taken on board ?

 

To some degree hel's what a call a 'street footballer' with great feet and skills, and vision but not fully wise how to use them or play his part in 11 v 11 a, not be a more consistent contributor to team performance rather than a potential star in occasional flashes

 

 

Edited by Sheltons Army
typos
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/09/2020 at 12:06, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Au contraire:

L'oie cacarde.

Fin.

I am intrigued.

Whilst I understand what you are saying, to the best of my knowledge this is not a well-known expression and, certainly in my experience, the verb cacarder is not widely used - apart from when one is discussing geese 😄.

Is this a phrase you recall from your schoolboy French, a la Eddie Izzard, 'Le singe est dans l'arbre', or am I reading too much in to your post? 

 

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Kibs said:

It's ironic isn't it, because he's often criticized for over-playing it and losing possession. Perhaps he was just playing his way into the game.

I think the team were playing their way into to it the first 30 mins or so. Northampton pressed more in the opening 30 - after that we got more and more on top as a team and KP started to express himself more. Something to be said for keeping it simple early on and letting the game open up. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

I think the team were playing their way into to it the first 30 mins or so. Northampton pressed more in the opening 30 - after that we got more and more on top as a team and KP started to express himself more. Something to be said for keeping it simple early on and letting the game open up. 

I think thats beyond the wit of Calderwood & co.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Class is permanent. I have always believed in him. Given the right situation he will destroy teams.

He is a top top player. The conundrum is the coaches finding the system to platform his undoubted talents.

There can't be any excuses now as we have two (not one) ex England coaches.

Obviously you have to take into account the opposition but here is a guy who can turn a match on its head. Brum (a) Sheff Utd (a) Charlton (h) as examples.

Consistency and discipline is what's needed.

  • Like 1
  • Robin 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, mozo said:

That impressive performance might put Palmer on a few more transfer wishlist. He might be easier to shift.

Mate this was the way I was looking at it. That performance against Northampton smacked of ‘a shop window’ performance. Especially the chasing down after 90 mins and being 4-0 up. He may have a few managers willing to take him on after that. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Red white and red said:

Mate this was the way I was looking at it. That performance against Northampton smacked of ‘a shop window’ performance. Especially the chasing down after 90 mins and being 4-0 up. He may have a few managers willing to take him on after that. 

Could be the case. It is strange that he's never done that before for us.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...