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Angles...Triangles


spudski

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Similar to Four Candles ?

What a joy to watch intelligent 'natural' movement and angles...

Something we've been missing for ages, especially up front.

Makes the game so much easier, and creates chances and opportunities...even at thrown ins we moved...I was gobsmacked.

Even if we concede and lose a few...I'm sure our fan base will respond in a positive manner...as it's how football should be played and entertaining. Give it a go playing like that and I'm sure most will be happy.

Was great to see last night.

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15 minutes ago, spudski said:

Similar to Four Candles ?

What a joy to watch intelligent 'natural' movement and angles...

Something we've been missing for ages, especially up front.

Makes the game so much easier, and creates chances and opportunities...even at thrown ins we moved...I was gobsmacked.

Even if we concede and lose a few...I'm sure our fan base will respond in a positive manner...as it's how football should be played and entertaining. Give it a go playing like that and I'm sure most will be happy.

Was great to see last night.

I couldn't agree more, but we had the players on the pitch who had the energy, pace and quality to play in that manner. 

I just don't see us being able to play like that with Rowe/Hunt as Wingbacks, Weimann in Midfield and Diedhiou up front. 

It will be intriguing to see who he picks on Sunday.

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10 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I couldn't agree more, but we had the players on the pitch who had the energy, pace and quality to play in that manner. 

I just don't see us being able to play like that with Rowe/Hunt as Wingbacks, Weimann in Midfield and Diedhiou up front. 

It will be intriguing to see who he picks on Sunday.

I agree...but imo they will be seen as 'experience'.

I truly believe that if we are to play the way we have been, and especially like last night, we may have to fore go experience in certain areas, for energy and willingness to move and get forward more into positive positions.

Leeds do it, as do Brentford. They stick to a positive forward thinking game on the front foot.

Teams will find space behind them...they will concede chances, but we have trust that we will create more.

It's a breath of fresh air.

 

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...but imo they will be seen as 'experience'.

I truly believe that if we are to play the way we have been, and especially like last night, we may have to fore go experience in certain areas, for energy and willingness to move and get forward more into positive positions.

Leeds do it, as do Brentford. They stick to a positive forward thinking game on the front foot.

Teams will find space behind them...they will concede chances, but we have trust that we will create more.

It's a breath of fresh air.

 

Yep 100%. And I think supporters will be far more accepting of failure/defeat if you take that approach. 

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52 minutes ago, spudski said:

Even if we concede and lose a few...I'm sure our fan base will respond in a positive manner...as it's how football should be played and entertaining. Give it a go playing like that and I'm sure most will be happy.

You are aware where you’ve posted this, aren’t you @spudski?

No matter how well we might play, some will still be unhappy, until we lose & then they can go back to their ‘happy place’!

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59 minutes ago, spudski said:

Similar to Four Candles ?

What a joy to watch intelligent 'natural' movement and angles...

Something we've been missing for ages, especially up front.

Makes the game so much easier, and creates chances and opportunities...even at thrown ins we moved...I was gobsmacked.

Even if we concede and lose a few...I'm sure our fan base will respond in a positive manner...as it's how football should be played and entertaining. Give it a go playing like that and I'm sure most will be happy.

Was great to see last night.

For a Bristol City team of recent times it was “unnaturally natural”! ?

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59 minutes ago, spudski said:

Similar to Four Candles ?

What a joy to watch intelligent 'natural' movement and angles...

Something we've been missing for ages, especially up front.

Makes the game so much easier, and creates chances and opportunities...even at thrown ins we moved...I was gobsmacked.

Even if we concede and lose a few...I'm sure our fan base will respond in a positive manner...as it's how football should be played and entertaining. Give it a go playing like that and I'm sure most will be happy.

Was great to see last night.

Could not agree more. Real movement off the ball was just about non existent for the last 2 years meaning that when a defender looked up, there was nobody showing, so we hit it long and the crowd groan. I can't help thinking that the mould was broken due to a lot of "preferred players" being left out as much as any instruction from DH. There is no replacement for hunger and enthusiasm.Lets hope that those who showed both will be rewarded with a run and the team.

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26 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...but imo they will be seen as 'experience'.

I truly believe that if we are to play the way we have been, and especially like last night, we may have to fore go experience in certain areas, for energy and willingness to move and get forward more into positive positions.

Leeds do it, as do Brentford. They stick to a positive forward thinking game on the front foot.

Teams will find space behind them...they will concede chances, but we have trust that we will create more.

It's a breath of fresh air.

 

I think you're being incredibly generous to suggest that the Exeter and Cov performances showed anything like the promise of last night. Different line ups and very different (in many ways disappointing) play.

Last night we saw an hour of scintillating football for the first time in ages, but let's not hail the turnaround until we have a performance like that against Stoke.

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26 minutes ago, mozo said:

I think you're being incredibly generous to suggest that the Exeter and Cov performances showed anything like the promise of last night. Different line ups and very different (in many ways disappointing) play.

Last night we saw an hour of scintillating football for the first time in ages, but let's not hail the turnaround until we have a performance like that against Stoke.

Thank you to everyone contributing and too many to quote and answer...but agree with majority of sentiments.

 

Mozo...I saw improvement in those games...but also reminders of the past from certain players that have played a majority of games. The new blood and young ens have a refreshing energy and less ingrained influence from last season.

The way we are trying to play fits many players...but less so for others imo. Famara, Weimann, Odowda are three off the top of my head that don't fit ATM.... They'd be better off at teams that suit their strengths.

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Amazing views tbh. 'Missing in the LJ era since the Manchester vamea'. They were in the Lj era! 

The three wins have been against teams poorer than 95% of Ljs opponents. 

Correct:, some people would say Palmer should have been played more, but like Semenyo his goal record per game is hard to support

Correct may people are only happy on here when they have something to complain about so regular Co rributors are on Staycation, which is great news for all of us who prefer reading positive posts to the negative crap. 

Well done players, well done management, just a shame that, we the fans can't be there to enjoy the is little run. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I agree...but imo they will be seen as 'experience'.

I truly believe that if we are to play the way we have been, and especially like last night, we may have to fore go experience in certain areas, for energy and willingness to move and get forward more into positive positions.

Leeds do it, as do Brentford. They stick to a positive forward thinking game on the front foot.

Teams will find space behind them...they will concede chances, but we have trust that we will create more.

It's a breath of fresh air.

 

It's Terry Cooper all over again. 

Attack, attack, attack!

Love it. 

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The thing is that intelligent movement on the ball and disciplined shape off the ball mostly are directly at odds.  If you focus too much on what to do when you lose it and emphasise "recovery runs" and so on too much, players take fewer chances to move in ways that stretch your opponents when on the ball. 

I felt under LJ we had a really good balance of this in the first half of the cup run season, and then after that he overdid the defensive side and the players lost confidence, stopped pressing properly and stopped making the runs and overlaps.  Overcoaching is how I thought of it, players seemed indecisive and hesitant.

It felt last night like the shackles were off, but I'd be interested to know to what degree that was because of DH's approach being different, because of the opposition, because of the competition and because of the younger players.  I guess we'll only find out over the course of the season but there's cause for hope.

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24 minutes ago, Nibor said:

The thing is that intelligent movement on the ball and disciplined shape off the ball mostly are directly at odds.  If you focus too much on what to do when you lose it and emphasise "recovery runs" and so on too much, players take fewer chances to move in ways that stretch your opponents when on the ball. 

I felt under LJ we had a really good balance of this in the first half of the cup run season, and then after that he overdid the defensive side and the players lost confidence, stopped pressing properly and stopped making the runs and overlaps.  Overcoaching is how I thought of it, players seemed indecisive and hesitant.

It felt last night like the shackles were off, but I'd be interested to know to what degree that was because of DH's approach being different, because of the opposition, because of the competition and because of the younger players.  I guess we'll only find out over the course of the season but there's cause for hope.

??????
 

And to just add one more thing....how do you really train / drill a counter-attacking system, which in many respects occur as the result of an error by the opposition.  Everything becomes a one-off situation.  I know that’s a massive generalisation, but if you then take Holden’s approach, there is a desire to move the ball forward and quickly, but...

...when that’s not possible, the team return to fundamental patterns of play that is based on possession.  The players understand their roles and how to work those openings.  They take care of the ball.

It was this return to “basics” that I started to see last season.  It hadn’t always worked properly, but when you spot patterns like:

Vyner to Hunt, Hunt back to Vyner who finds Weimann coming short, Weimann pops it off, and suddenly Hunt is in space in advanced positions, or Paterson the secondary runner, for Vyner to pass to....

....you get a feeling that players are playing to a plan, and doing all those things that came naturally to them following years of learning the basics.  Under LJ it felt like they were being told to do things that seemed alien to them.

Probably not explained it very well, but hopefully you get my gist.

671 passes last night / 601 successful.  Wasn’t all passing for passing’s sake, and then lump it when you run out of ideas.

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36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

??????
 

And to just add one more thing....how do you really train / drill a counter-attacking system, which in many respects occur as the result of an error by the opposition.  Everything becomes a one-off situation.  I know that’s a massive generalisation, but if you then take Holden’s approach, there is a desire to move the ball forward and quickly, but...

...when that’s not possible, the team return to fundamental patterns of play that is based on possession.  The players understand their roles and how to work those openings.  They take care of the ball.

It was this return to “basics” that I started to see last season.  It hadn’t always worked properly, but when you spot patterns like:

Vyner to Hunt, Hunt back to Vyner who finds Weimann coming short, Weimann pops it off, and suddenly Hunt is in space in advanced positions, or Paterson the secondary runner, for Vyner to pass to....

....you get a feeling that players are playing to a plan, and doing all those things that came naturally to them following years of learning the basics.  Under LJ it felt like they were being told to do things that seemed alien to them.

Probably not explained it very well, but hopefully you get my gist.

671 passes last night / 601 successful.  Wasn’t all passing for passing’s sake, and then lump it when you run out of ideas.

City still have far to go to get the ball control and accurate passing to the required standard but last night I watched a team that wanted to play for each other. In the past we've had one or two who became a bit precious and if a pass didnt land on their toe they couldn't be assed to go and collect it, last night was a lesson in possession and if necessary, retrieval.

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2 hours ago, spudski said:

Mozo...I saw improvement in those games...but also reminders of the past from certain players that have played a majority of games. The new blood and young ens have a refreshing energy and less ingrained influence from last season.

The way we are trying to play fits many players...but less so for others imo. Famara, Weimann, Odowda are three off the top of my head that don't fit ATM.... They'd be better off at teams that suit their strengths.

Spudders, I'm with you re the young lads. To see Semenyo and Bakinson performing to these levels has been really exciting (and surprising tbh!)

Moore had already convinced most of last season, and Vyner, whilst I'm not denying the potential is there,might just be a little too error prone at the moment for regular games. Maybe he needs those games to iron that out? That's the gamble.

With Morrell and Walsh still in the picture this season might be more about the breakthrough of the next gen, rather than a genuine play off assault.

Seems a little greedy to expect both!

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39 minutes ago, Midred said:

In the past we've had one or two who became a bit precious and if a pass didnt land on their toe they couldn't be assed to go and collect it, last night was a lesson in possession and if necessary, retrieval.

I agree. I think in the past we've also had a few (probably the same ones) who in a desire to take a bit of a breather or out of frustration have spent a portion of games almost intentionally making it difficult for them to receive the ball - being the wrong side of a man, for example. Last night everyone looked a lot hungrier.

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4 hours ago, spudski said:

I agree...but imo they will be seen as 'experience'.

I truly believe that if we are to play the way we have been, and especially like last night, we may have to fore go experience in certain areas, for energy and willingness to move and get forward more into positive positions.

Leeds do it, as do Brentford. They stick to a positive forward thinking game on the front foot.

Teams will find space behind them...they will concede chances, but we have trust that we will create more.

It's a breath of fresh air.

 

Conversely, if we pose so much more of a threat playing that way, the opposition might have to be a bit more circumspect with their tactical approach, i.e. adjusting their tactics to counter us, as compared to Lj continually picking players and tactics to counter the opposition strengths.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Spudders, I'm with you re the young lads. To see Semenyo and Bakinson performing to these levels has been really exciting (and surprising tbh!)

Moore had already convinced most of last season, and Vyner, whilst I'm not denying the potential is there,might just be a little too error prone at the moment for regular games. Maybe he needs those games to iron that out? That's the gamble.

With Morrell and Walsh still in the picture this season might be more about the breakthrough of the next gen, rather than a genuine play off assault.

Seems a little greedy to expect both!

Didn’t Alan Hansen famously say “ you’ll never win anything with kids” when Man U’s class of 92 broke through back in the day?

 

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33 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Didn’t Alan Hansen famously say “ you’ll never win anything with kids” when Man U’s class of 92 broke through back in the day?

 

He did. Mind you, it's very rare that a golden generation come through like that.

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