Fitzy Red Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Hi anybody got a link or information on Lee’s record as City manager Not only game stats but transfer stats I’ve informed he made the club in excess of 20 million in his tenure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Transfer values are difficult because of how they're worked but transfermarkt probably the best place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Just now, Lrrr said: Transfer values are difficult because of how they're worked but transfermarkt probably the best place. Caveat that many transfer may have a “?” In the fee where it’s undisclosed. The best place to look at Lee’s financial performance is in the Club’s annual accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Caveat that many transfer may have a “?” In the fee where it’s undisclosed. The best place to look at Lee’s financial performance is in the Club’s annual accounts. Well if you want to go through that level of detail/effort then yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Lrrr said: Well if you want to go through that level of detail/effort then yes Was actually thinking about it at high level and simplistically. He will moan a bit that he had to sell his best players. That is life at most clubs, and if you’re frugal with signings, perhaps you can offer some players a better deal to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzy Red Posted September 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 I not looking for precise numbers but estimated would be fine for the transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 This’ll start you off. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/lee-johnson/spielertransfers/trainer/28097/plus/0/galerie/0?station_id=128460 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzy Red Posted September 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Thanks Dave great start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Don't know why, but it did cross my mind that the OP was a red rag to Davefevs bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew me Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 My word.... You can buy eliasson, de.silva and nakhi wells for the same price as Mesengo Wow! That's a huge amount for a lad that's made no impact. I know he's got a future transfer value, but can you imagine anyone paying us £7m for him now??? Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Matthew me said: My word.... You can buy eliasson, de.silva and nakhi wells for the same price as Mesengo Wow! That's a huge amount for a lad that's made no impact. I know he's got a future transfer value, but can you imagine anyone paying us £7m for him now??? Wow That would be if all clauses of his transfer were met, probably includes promotion clauses, certain amount of appearances etc. The rumoured initial fee was closer to £2.5m which, for a lad who'd made champions league appearances at his age wasn't so bad when you consider how else funds have been spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew me Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lrrr said: That would be if all clauses of his transfer were met, probably includes promotion clauses, certain amount of appearances etc. The rumoured initial fee was closer to £2.5m which, for a lad who'd made champions league appearances at his age wasn't so bad when you consider how else funds have been spent. Aside from.whispers about the contract, where did you get the 2.5m? The link from Dave f shows 7m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 Let’s not forget that LJ didn’t buy a lot of the players purchased during his tenure . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, Matthew me said: Aside from.whispers about the contract, where did you get the 2.5m? The link from Dave f shows 7m Worth bearing in mind transfermarkt primarily compiles info from the public domain and individual users but our transfer fees are usually not public domain so there is an element of guesswork in their figures. It would not be that surprising if people on here had inside info that transfermarkt did not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 I don't think you can make that comparison. Looking at how the club is structured now, transfer dealings are dealt with the board and chief exec. The head coach may have an input on the type of players or a list of names but it is really dealt with and sanctioned higher up. The structure we have now changed after Cotts was sacked. I believe he had fees agreed for Gray, Gayle and Maguire at the time but the club wouldn't/couldn't agree terms. Hence the change in structure. So I am not sure you can include transfers and sales in LJ's tenure or any head coach we have thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westonred Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Surely it is MA making us the money as he is the contract negotiatior so to say LJ made the club over £20m is a bit misleading. It is the also the scouts that identify the players (of a given type) and recommend them to the club, maybe one or two like Brownhill can be credited to LJ as he was with him before at previous clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 12 hours ago, Fitzy Red said: Hi anybody got a link or information on Lee’s record as City manager Not only game stats but transfer stats I’ve informed he made the club in excess of 20 million in his tenure I reckon it’s way more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcredandwhite Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 It’s not clear cut to credit LJ with all the transfer successes - and also the failures. Or, conversely if you ARE going to blame LJ for the duds (like Diony) then you also have to credit him with the successes. I agree with Westonred; that’s Mark Ashton in the main. LJ might have had an opinion, but I’m convinced Ashton had the final say. I’m also convinced that LJ wouldn’t have wanted to sell 3 of his team captains. Yes, all managers have to deal with losing players, but the CAPTAINS - 3 successive times in 2 seasons is a lot of captains by anyone’s standard and couldn’t have helped and probably contributed to our poor form towards the end of his tenure. LJ is far from blameless of course - just that it must have made his job more difficult. Sorry I’ve digressed......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, Riaz said: I reckon it’s way more than that One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was. But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee. There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc. Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite. Ultimately there is no right answer imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Davefevs said: One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was. But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee. There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc. Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite. Ultimately there is no right answer imho. The one thing you can say for certain, is that he definitely brought in more than he spent. Can be no doubt on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Riaz said: The one thing you can say for certain, is that he definitely brought in more than he spent. Can be no doubt on that Yep....if you are referring to purely transfer fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eardun Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said: It’s not clear cut to credit LJ with all the transfer successes - and also the failures. Or, conversely if you ARE going to blame LJ for the duds (like Diony) then you also have to credit him with the successes. I agree with Westonred; that’s Mark Ashton in the main. LJ might have had an opinion, but I’m convinced Ashton had the final say. I’m also convinced that LJ wouldn’t have wanted to sell 3 of his team captains. Yes, all managers have to deal with losing players, but the CAPTAINS - 3 successive times in 2 seasons is a lot of captains by anyone’s standard and couldn’t have helped and probably contributed to our poor form towards the end of his tenure. LJ is far from blameless of course - just that it must have made his job more difficult. Sorry I’ve digressed......... Took me longer that it should have to work out the captains given Bailey Wright’s role as club captain, but Wilbs, Pack and Brownhill were the three you were referring to I guess. Think the loss of Reid was equally significant given his importance to the way we played in LJ’s best spell. Webster’s departure was also significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, Davefevs said: One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was. But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee. There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc. Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite. Ultimately there is no right answer imho. I agree it's too one dimensional - I think it's just so difficult to say what should fairly be a Lee Johnson transfer it can be used to paint whatever picture you want. A Webster or a Brownhill has to be fully Lee, he bought them, he improved them, he sold them. What about an Eliasson? Lee bought him, improved him, was the coach for the vast majority of his time here, but will likely be sold just after Lee has left... does that go in the good column? What about if Moore goes in January for £10m? Or Dasilva? Or a Lloyd Kelly - Lee played him a reasonable amount for one season. Is that fully a Lee transfer? He was here for what, 8 years in total? With Bobby, Lee had a huge hand in unlocking his potential for that one season so I think it's fair to give that one to him. But what about Flint? Lee didn't sign him, but he did sell him probably at or near his peak. You could make a reasonable argument for half of them to go in Lee's favour or as just circumstance while he was here in my opinion. If we get a youngster through who plays 5 games then gets sold for £20m 6 months after a new coach starts, should he get credited with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, IAmNick said: I agree it's too one dimensional - I think it's just so difficult to say what should fairly be a Lee Johnson transfer it can be used to paint whatever picture you want. A Webster or a Brownhill has to be fully Lee, he bought them, he improved them, he sold them. What about an Eliasson? Lee bought him, improved him, was the coach for the vast majority of his time here, but will likely be sold just after Lee has left... does that go in the good column? What about if Moore goes in January for £10m? Or Dasilva? Or a Lloyd Kelly - Lee played him a reasonable amount for one season. Is that fully a Lee transfer? He was here for what, 8 years in total? With Bobby, Lee had a huge hand in unlocking his potential for that one season so I think it's fair to give that one to him. But what about Flint? Lee didn't sign him, but he did sell him probably at or near his peak. You could make a reasonable argument for half of them to go in Lee's favour or as just circumstance while he was here in my opinion. If we get a youngster through who plays 5 games then gets sold for £20m 6 months after a new coach starts, should he get credited with that? Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzy Red Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Just want facts about in and outs during his tenure approx transfer fees im sure He didn’t have full control but it was his watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Fitzy Red said: Just want facts about in and outs during his tenure approx transfer fees im sure He didn’t have full control but it was his watch Your first two sentences are a contradiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzy Red Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 5 hours ago, cidercity1987 said: Your first two sentences are a contradiction One is rather pretentious on this occasion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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