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Lee Johnson Stats and Transfers


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Just now, Lrrr said:

Transfer values are difficult because of how they're worked but transfermarkt probably the best place.

Caveat that many transfer may have a “?” In the fee where it’s undisclosed.

The best place to look at Lee’s financial performance is in the Club’s annual accounts.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Caveat that many transfer may have a “?” In the fee where it’s undisclosed.

The best place to look at Lee’s financial performance is in the Club’s annual accounts.

Well if you want to go through that level of detail/effort then yes

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1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Well if you want to go through that level of detail/effort then yes

Was actually thinking about it at high level and simplistically.

He will moan a bit that he had to sell his best players.  That is life at most clubs, and if you’re frugal with signings, perhaps you can offer some players a better deal to stay.

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9 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

My word.... You can buy eliasson, de.silva and nakhi wells for the same price as Mesengo

Wow! That's a huge amount for a lad that's made no impact.

I know he's got a future transfer value, but can you imagine anyone paying us £7m for him now???

Wow

That would be if all clauses of his transfer were met, probably includes promotion clauses, certain amount of appearances etc. The rumoured initial fee was closer to £2.5m which, for a lad who'd made champions league appearances at his age wasn't so bad when you consider how else funds have been spent.

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2 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

That would be if all clauses of his transfer were met, probably includes promotion clauses, certain amount of appearances etc. The rumoured initial fee was closer to £2.5m which, for a lad who'd made champions league appearances at his age wasn't so bad when you consider how else funds have been spent.

Aside from.whispers about the contract, where did you get the 2.5m?

The link from Dave f shows 7m

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32 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Aside from.whispers about the contract, where did you get the 2.5m?

The link from Dave f shows 7m

Worth bearing in mind transfermarkt primarily compiles info from the public domain and individual users but our transfer fees are usually not public domain so there is an element of guesswork in their figures. It would not be that surprising if people on here had inside info that transfermarkt did not... 

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I don't think you can make that comparison. Looking at how the club is structured now, transfer dealings are dealt with the board and chief exec. The head coach may have an input on the type of players or a list of names but it is really dealt with and sanctioned higher up.

The structure we have now changed after Cotts was sacked. I believe he had fees agreed for Gray, Gayle and Maguire at the time but the club wouldn't/couldn't agree terms. Hence the change in structure.

So I am not sure you can include transfers and sales in LJ's tenure or any head coach we have thereafter.

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Surely it is MA making us the money as he is the contract negotiatior so to say LJ made the club over £20m is a bit misleading.  It is the also the scouts that identify the players (of a given type) and recommend them to the club, maybe one or two like Brownhill can be credited to LJ as he was with him before at previous clubs

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12 hours ago, Fitzy Red said:

Hi anybody got a link or information on Lee’s record as City manager

Not only game stats but transfer stats 

I’ve informed he made the club in excess of 20 million in his tenure

 

I reckon it’s way more than that 

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It’s not clear cut to credit LJ with all the transfer successes - and also the failures. 
Or, conversely if you ARE going to blame LJ for the duds (like Diony) then you also have to credit him with the successes.
I agree with Westonred; that’s Mark Ashton in the main. LJ might have had an opinion, but I’m convinced Ashton had the final say. I’m also convinced that LJ wouldn’t have wanted to sell 3 of his team captains. Yes, all managers have to deal with losing players, but the CAPTAINS - 3 successive times in 2 seasons is a lot of captains by anyone’s standard and couldn’t have helped and probably contributed to our poor form towards the end of his tenure. LJ is far from blameless of course - just that it must have made his job more difficult. 
Sorry I’ve digressed.........

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I reckon it’s way more than that 

One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was.  But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee.

There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc.

Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite.  Ultimately there is no right answer imho.

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was.  But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee.

There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc.

Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite.  Ultimately there is no right answer imho.

The one thing you can say for certain, is that he definitely brought in more than he spent. Can be no doubt on that

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27 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s not clear cut to credit LJ with all the transfer successes - and also the failures. 
Or, conversely if you ARE going to blame LJ for the duds (like Diony) then you also have to credit him with the successes.
I agree with Westonred; that’s Mark Ashton in the main. LJ might have had an opinion, but I’m convinced Ashton had the final say. I’m also convinced that LJ wouldn’t have wanted to sell 3 of his team captains. Yes, all managers have to deal with losing players, but the CAPTAINS - 3 successive times in 2 seasons is a lot of captains by anyone’s standard and couldn’t have helped and probably contributed to our poor form towards the end of his tenure. LJ is far from blameless of course - just that it must have made his job more difficult. 
Sorry I’ve digressed.........

 

 

Took me longer that it should have to work out the captains given Bailey Wright’s role as club captain, but Wilbs, Pack and Brownhill were the three you were referring to I guess. Think the loss of Reid was equally significant given his importance to the way we played in LJ’s best spell. Webster’s departure was also significant. 

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25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

One of these days I will sit down and go through every transfer in and out, work out fees paid / received based on available info and see what it was.  But as we don’t know things like loan fees paid, signing on fees paid, future add-ons received, etc, it’s rather futile, and a one dimensional view to just look at fees paid versus fees received - when used as a stick to beat or tool to praise Lee.

There are so many other factors, tangible and intangible, such as wage bill increase, age when bought and propensity to improve, inflationary transfer market conditions, who secured the deal etc etc.

Up to individuals where they want to take this debate, as it’s a forum and the whole point of forums is to debate these things....but for everyone with one view, you will have someone with the opposite.  Ultimately there is no right answer imho.

I agree it's too one dimensional - I think it's just so difficult to say what should fairly be a Lee Johnson transfer it can be used to paint whatever picture you want.

A Webster or a Brownhill has to be fully Lee, he bought them, he improved them, he sold them.

What about an Eliasson? Lee bought him, improved him, was the coach for the vast majority of his time here, but will likely be sold just after Lee has left... does that go in the good column? What about if Moore goes in January for £10m? Or Dasilva?

Or a Lloyd Kelly - Lee played him a reasonable amount for one season. Is that fully a Lee transfer? He was here for what, 8 years in total?

With Bobby, Lee had a huge hand in unlocking his potential for that one season so I think it's fair to give that one to him. But what about Flint? Lee didn't sign him, but he did sell him probably at or near his peak.

You could make a reasonable argument for half of them to go in Lee's favour or as just circumstance while he was here in my opinion. If we get a youngster through who plays 5 games then gets sold for £20m 6 months after a new coach starts, should he get credited with that?

Edited by IAmNick
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4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I agree it's too one dimensional - I think it's just so difficult to say what should fairly be a Lee Johnson transfer it can be used to paint whatever picture you want.

A Webster or a Brownhill has to be fully Lee, he bought them, he improved them, he sold them.

What about an Eliasson? Lee bought him, improved him, was the coach for the vast majority of his time here, but will likely be sold just after Lee has left... does that go in the good column? What about if Moore goes in January for £10m? Or Dasilva?

Or a Lloyd Kelly - Lee played him a reasonable amount for one season. Is that fully a Lee transfer? He was here for what, 8 years in total?

With Bobby, Lee had a huge hand in unlocking his potential for that one season so I think it's fair to give that one to him. But what about Flint? Lee didn't sign him, but he did sell him probably at or near his peak.

You could make a reasonable argument for half of them to go in Lee's favour or as just circumstance while he was here in my opinion. If we get a youngster through who plays 5 games then gets sold for £20m 6 months after a new coach starts, should he get credited with that?

Exactly!

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