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Have we overtaken Stoke as a club?


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The bigger smaller club debate is so subjective - there are so many different variables. Stoke City have had more recent success than us but off the field barring the fact they have a huge wage bill and parachute payments we are very similar if not identical clubs. Very similar facilities (you could argue our stadium and new training facilities are actually superior to what they have) and we have very similar fanbases in terms of numbers. What BCFC really need is a long stint in the Premier league.. untill we do your Stoke City’s of this world will always feel as if they are the bigger club in comparison to us.

Edited by bris red
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Definitely not intended to be about "bigger". It's pointless and boring without parameters. I mention not talking history as obviously they've done more than us. Not really a question there. Sad people have decided to go that way when it's deliberately left out of the OP!

More about where we are right now vs them and if there's anything you think we're worse at these days or looking towards the future with them running out of parachute payments.

Would you exchange stadiums? Youth set ups? Coaching staff? Ownership? Squad? Anything?

Why that matters is that kinda shows how we're doing vs a lot of other teams when we tend to tunnel onto Brentford and a couple more. We may not be perfect but there's a lot of teams with recent success who we're passing.

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6 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

When it comes to debates about size of club, I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Bristol City are by far the biggest club never to play in the Premier League. There are the really big clubs - Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Manchester City etc. Then I believe City are towards the lower end of the next cluster which would include Stoke City.

 

I beleive in terms of attendances, the next biggest clubs who havent played in the top flight in the last 30 years are us and preston, and we are very similar sized clubs.

when you see the names who have spent at least 1 season in the top league, blackpool, hull, wigan, huddersfield, bournemouth, swindon, cardiff, swansea, reading etc etc, it really is sad how badly we have been managed over the years.

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This whole argument is usually bollocks but consider this.

Stoke as a city is pretty much an economic non entity these days. No growth, no prospects.

Bristol is one of the most successful cities in the UK, outside of London. Apart from Brighton and Edinburgh none are growing as quickly economically these days. Bristol's demographics are good, the climate is decent and the cultural environment is renowned across the continent.

Going forward into the middle part of this century Bristol City will be streets ahead of Stoke on this basis. We have a bright future ahead of us.

Edited by Chairman Mao
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1 minute ago, Chairman Mao said:

This whole argument is usually bollocks but consider this.

Stoke as a city is pretty much an economic non entity these days. No growth, no prospects.

Bristol is one of the most successful cities in the UK, outside of London. Apart from Brighton and Edinburgh none are growing as quickly economically these days. Bristol's demographics are good, the climate is decent and the cultural environment is renowned across the continent.

Going forward into the middle part of this century Bristol City will be streets ahead of Stoke on this basis. We have a bright future ahead of us.

Im seeing a lady from stoke, and spend a few days a week up there. We dont go into the centre, but the rest of it is rather a dump, abandoned factory buildings, lots of areas needing development. Apart from the area around the wedgewood factory, which is bloody nice, and some of the surrounding villages. 

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Just now, Simon bristol said:

Im seeing a lady from stoke, and spend a few days a week up there. We dont go into the centre, but the rest of it is rather a dump, abandoned factory buildings, lots of areas needing development. Apart from the area around the wedgewood factory, which is bloody nice, and some of the surrounding villages. 

It's had its day in the late 19th century. Social and economic forces are very much against the likes of Stoke City and Preston I am afraid. 

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9 minutes ago, Prinny said:

Definitely not intended to be about "bigger". It's pointless and boring without parameters. I mention not talking history as obviously they've done more than us. Not really a question there. Sad people have decided to go that way when it's deliberately left out of the OP!

More about where we are right now vs them and if there's anything you think we're worse at these days or looking towards the future with them running out of parachute payments.

Would you exchange stadiums? Youth set ups? Coaching staff? Ownership? Squad? Anything?

Why that matters is that kinda shows how we're doing vs a lot of other teams when we tend to tunnel onto Brentford and a couple more. We may not be perfect but there's a lot of teams with recent success who we're passing.

I just don’t see how you can ignore history when assessing size of club. Stoke have spent 62 seasons in the top flight of English football. Compare that with us.  They are a top club on that basis alone.

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We’ve beaten Stoke at their ground in the second game of the season. 
There’s plenty of the season left to go and Stoke happen to be the wealthiest team in this league after Barnsley (unless any of the newly relegated sides are wealthier)
It’s far to early to make suggestions like this imho. 

Edited by bcfcredandwhite
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6 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Wouldn't you want Gordon Banks in goal or Stanley Matthews up front🤔

No not Banks we had Gibson best keeper i ever saw.Mind you i was young. As for Stan before my time. No doubt he could probably have got a game down the gate .

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3 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I just don’t see how you can ignore history when assessing size of club. Stoke have spent 62 seasons in the top flight of English football. Compare that with us.  They are a top club on that basis alone.

 

3 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

We’ve beaten Stoke at their ground in the second game of the season. 
There’s plenty of the season left to go and Stoke happen to be the wealthiest team in this league after Barnsley. 
It’s far to early to make suggestions like this imho. 

That's why I''m not talking about the size of club... but where we are as a football club right now and going forwards.

Without limiting it to "look at the league table" because it's only two games into the season. 

So... is there anything you'd swap between the clubs to our benefit, excluding history?

How do you think both clubs look now and going forwards?

 

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3 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

That's why I''m not talking about the size of club... but where we are as a football club right now and going forwards.

Without limiting it to "look at the league table" because it's only two games into the season. 

So... is there anything you'd swap between the clubs to our benefit, excluding history?

How do you think both clubs look now and going forwards?

 

Going forward a Stoke City without parachute payments are certainly not a more attractive proposition than us. Is that an answer that you want?

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2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Going forward a Stoke City without parachute payments are certainly not a more attractive proposition than us. Is that an answer that you want?

I'm interested in peoples opinions so it's the type of response I'm looking for thanks!

Of course reason behind the opinions and more detail is more interesting to read I think but if you just want to give your opinion that's ok too.

Edited by Prinny
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4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I just don’t see how you can ignore history when assessing size of club. Stoke have spent 62 seasons in the top flight of English football. Compare that with us.  They are a top club on that basis alone.

On history it's no contest, although as I mentioned above they cannot match our highest ever finish in English football of 2nd. 

On fanbase, it's worth noting that when they pipped us to promotion in 2008, they averaged 16,800 that season. We averaged 16,200.

Prior to reaching the Prem under Pulis, they hadn't averaged 20,000 or more since 1980 (when they were in the old 1st division). Relegated just five years after us, in 1985, they averaged 10,700 that season (in the top division), whereas we averaged 18,000 when relegated in 1980.

They had a bigger support while rubbing Arsenal up the wrong way and exceeding all expectations in the Prem, but otherwise as far as support is concerned they are pretty much the same size as us.

Their away support in the Prem was poor - same as their results on the road - so they put on free coach travel to try and boost their numbers.

We should see them for what they are - nothing special, nothing to be afraid of. Especially when the parachute payments run out

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Could this thread be anymore Bristol City? 5 weeks ago bed sheets were being flown, fans saying they would never attended again, SL was taking the easy option, MA needs to be sacked, and JL blah, blah, blah. 

Fast forward 5 weeks! We're unbeaten, 2nd in the league, playing some cracking football and threads appear asking if we have overtaken Stoke as a club. 

Got to love this club 😂😂😂😂

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2 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Could this thread be anymore Bristol City? 5 weeks ago bed sheets were being flown, fans saying they would never attended again, SL was taking the easy option, MA needs to be sacked, and JL blah, blah, blah. 

Fast forward 5 weeks! We're unbeaten, 2nd in the league, playing some cracking football and threads appear asking if we have overtaken Stoke as a club. 

Got to love this club 😂😂😂😂

You should never treat a forum or a social media or a diverse group of people as one homogeneous lump.

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4 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I'm interested in peoples opinions so it's the type of response I'm looking for thanks!

Of course reason behind the opinions and more detail is more interesting to read I think but if you just want to give your opinion that's ok too.

Stoke have an aging squad, we have a youthful squad which has I imagine a significant market value above theirs. Similar sized stadiums, similar sized support, similarly wealthy local owners but Bristol is economically and socially a large step above Stoke.

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12 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

I'd say the 'size of club' can be measured by this;

ST holders X major trophies won. 

I'll let the fact guys work out who's where 

That’s easy - no trophies leaves us on zero!

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36 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

No not Banks we had Gibson best keeper i ever saw.Mind you i was young. As for Stan before my time. No doubt he could probably have got a game down the gate .

Better than Yashin if I remember correctly. :) 

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

How do we define bigger club?

Is it purely about recent success.. then does that make Bournemouth bigger?

I think fan base, catchment area etc is a big part. A good barometer is how many fans teams have taken to Wembley. That shows how many people ‘look out for their results’ at the very least in a local area. These are people you’d hope consistent success converts to fans who attend games regularly.

Always the big debate that.

Stoke in recent times though have had 10 years in the top flight, which included an FA Cup final, European football- closest we've come is Anglo Italian Cup before my time.

If we go further back to pre 1992, top flight and top 2 divisions would have them higher ranked-quick look but think they've had at most 10 seasons outside the top 2 Divisions and perhaps less!

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58 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

That's why I''m not talking about the size of club... but where we are as a football club right now and going forwards.

Without limiting it to "look at the league table" because it's only two games into the season. 

So... is there anything you'd swap between the clubs to our benefit, excluding history?

How do you think both clubs look now and going forwards?

 

Id suggest at this point, the owner and his family has a history and experience of making better decisions in running the club. He has actually made an investment which has resulted in top flight football, and indeed they qualified for europe.

i suspect if you asked most football fans to choose who is more likely to be in the premier league in the next 5 years, most would be saying stoke over us.

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