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Pato in today's game


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5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

He’s certainly had more than one great game in his last ten appearances...

Oh, I agree. But my assessment is based on three-and-a-half years of performances and, IMO, is pretty fair. World beater against Man City, stroller against Rotherham. We have better options in that position.

Edited by tin
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You will always get that with these type of players at our level. They will have quiet games where they dont influence games. No panic he has had a good start to the season without doubt.

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Just now, Super said:

You will always get that with these type of players at our level. They will have quiet games where they dont influence games. No panic he has had a good start to the season without doubt.

I think you could have predicted it wouldn't be his type of game before it started. Even at 0-1 Stoke just packed the area in front of the penalty area and made it difficult to create much.

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Poor today, has been the most consistent player over probably 10 games, so he'll start Vs Wednesday regardless, and rightly so. But should Palmer do to Villa, what he did to Northampton , then Holden will have a decision to make.

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3 hours ago, Red7 said:

Fantastic team performance today with pretty much everybody mucking in and coming out of the game with plenty of credit.

But I thought Pato was absent again today for long periods of the game and, as such, the weakest link in the team. That said, I admit I wasn't really watching what he did off the ball much.

How do others rate his performance today? Perhaps you saw something that I didn't. Genuine question. 

Vintage Pato - I’ve said it before about him he is far too inconsistent. The problem with it though is if he was consistent he wouldn’t be at Bristol City for very long. A great player on his day but his day is few and far between. It is what it is though - as i said if he consistently put in his top level performances a team in the Prem would take a punt on him. Its frustrating but you have to just accept that as a championship club you will have these types of player we aren’t alone in that respect.

Edited by bris red
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3 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

Pato did a huge amount of work off the ball. Pressing was a massive part of the performance today and he got through plenty. 

Yes, he did.  There was one bit after about 35 minutes where he gave away a ball about 40 yards out.  The old Pato would’ve just ambled back, but he realised he needed to track Clucas, and worked hard to get close and then follow him.  That is a good sign.

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I disagree.  He certainly had a quiet game, but he didn’t make many mistakes.  He covered an awful lot of ground, particularly in the first half.

He pressed a lot second half, closing down the keeper....and Chris Martin intelligently dropped back into the midfield.

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Will be interesting to see what happens over the season,,, in terms of age and ceiling, paterson is a less attractive option than walsh and palmer. He cant afford too many off days when walsh is back, but it seems holden really likes him, and has started the season as one of the preferred starters

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4 hours ago, Red7 said:

That's sort of what it felt like to me. Almost a waste of a player.

Just what are you talking about? You say a brilliant team performance apart from Patterson, didn't watch him, but have concluded he is a waste of a player, and yet some on here are busting to agree with this carp. It's as though some just have to undermine a win with singling out a player, be it AW or one other on the day just to suck up to the same old moaners who had it in for Andy before he rammed their ludicrous comments down their throats by running his socks off, and scoring.

Nothing wrong with some considered fair criticism, but to call a city player a waste of a player is ill conceived, especially right now. 

I said before the game forget negativity, don't fear the opposition, perhaps I should add not to fear our own so called supporters.

Get with the plan or get out!

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8 hours ago, Blackbird1 said:

Just what are you talking about? You say a brilliant team performance apart from Patterson, didn't watch him, but have concluded he is a waste of a player,

I said "almost a waste of a player" because that's what it seemed like to me. I also said that I wasn't watching him all that much rather than not at all. That's down to the camerawork and the way I tend to follow the ball when I'm watching the game. The bits I did see, he seemed to be ambling/jogging around a lot without much purpose. That's why I asked for the stats and other people's views. I may well change my opinion once I've read them all.

 

8 hours ago, Blackbird1 said:

Get with the plan or get out!

Who are you? Boris ******* Johnson?

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How can he be described as poor. Our pressing was superb and Pato played a large part in that. (The second and third press are just as important as the first one). Sometimes you can have a good game without seeing much of the ball as Pato did today.

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1 hour ago, Red7 said:

I said "almost a waste of a player" because that's what it seemed like to me. I also said that I wasn't watching him all that much rather than not at all. That's down to the camerawork and the way I tend to follow the ball when I'm watching the game. The bits I did see, he seemed to be ambling/jogging around a lot without much purpose. That's why I asked for the stats and other people's views. I may well change my opinion once I've read them all.

 

Who are you? Boris ******* Johnson?

'Almost' a waste of a player..makes less sense, like your Boris jibe. But this forum condemns Andy W for for running around a lot, and scores, then switches to Pato  for not running around a lot. We just have to have a scapegoat for winning four on the trot and topping the league.

Look at Jamie Vardy's heatmap stats,nand then look at his goal scoring record, and report back.

 

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Hmm.

Just watched the highlights and, in those ~10mins, Paterson:

  • forces Clucas to go back to the keeper, leading to Wells' early chance,
  • puts a corner into a decent area which leads to Hunt's long shot,
  • turns out of a tight area (and gets clattered for his trouble) to move the ball on to Weimann in the build up to Martin's effort,
  • maintains possession well before playing the ball out to Hunt for the cross that sets up the first goal - also following in to get on the end of Martin's hook back across, in case Wells hadn't managed to readjust.

The rest of the clips seem to be after he'd been substituted.

Now, I'm not saying he had a stellar, stand-out performance, but he worked well for the team, and contributed to the performance as a whole.

It seems a little bit like he's a victim of higher expectations, precisely because he's often met those higher expectations. Had Nagy put in that performance, I'm not sure there'd be many questioning his role or place in the team. Essentially, with Weimann tending to be the one slightly higher up the pitch, Pato did end up playing more of that Nagy role - keeping the ball moving, being positive early in moves, but not necessarily finishing them off.

As someone else mentioned, people felt Massengo was exposed last week due to having Weimann & Paterson next to him. We could've brought in Nagy (for example) to help with that, but ultimately didn't need to because Pato just adjusted his role slightly, and Bakinson therefore had more support.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm happy. :thumbsup:

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2 hours ago, Blackbird1 said:

'Almost' a waste of a player..makes less sense, like your Boris jibe. But this forum condemns Andy W for for running around a lot, and scores, then switches to Pato  for not running around a lot. We just have to have a scapegoat for winning four on the trot and topping the league.

Not sure where you get the "scapegoat" bit from. I acknowledged the good performance of the team. But we will come up against better opponents than Stoke, so we should always be looking to improve the team/our performance, even after we play well. For me, the position Pato was playing in is one area that needs improvement." He may well have run around a lot, tracked back etc. But that's the bare minimum any professional footballer should be delivering.  

The Boris jibe was aimed at your "Get with the plan or get out" comment, essentially you telling somebody to **** off just because they don't see something the same way you do.

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31 minutes ago, RedYoshi said:

Hmm.

Just watched the highlights and, in those ~10mins, Paterson:

  • forces Clucas to go back to the keeper, leading to Wells' early chance,
  • puts a corner into a decent area which leads to Hunt's long shot,
  • turns out of a tight area (and gets clattered for his trouble) to move the ball on to Weimann in the build up to Martin's effort,
  • maintains possession well before playing the ball out to Hunt for the cross that sets up the first goal - also following in to get on the end of Martin's hook back across, in case Wells hadn't managed to readjust.

The rest of the clips seem to be after he'd been substituted.

Now, I'm not saying he had a stellar, stand-out performance, but he worked well for the team, and contributed to the performance as a whole.

It seems a little bit like he's a victim of higher expectations, precisely because he's often met those higher expectations. Had Nagy put in that performance, I'm not sure there'd be many questioning his role or place in the team. Essentially, with Weimann tending to be the one slightly higher up the pitch, Pato did end up playing more of that Nagy role - keeping the ball moving, being positive early in moves, but not necessarily finishing them off.

As someone else mentioned, people felt Massengo was exposed last week due to having Weimann & Paterson next to him. We could've brought in Nagy (for example) to help with that, but ultimately didn't need to because Pato just adjusted his role slightly, and Bakinson therefore had more support.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I'm happy. :thumbsup:

He definitely wasn't bad. Worked hard for the team. Only thing I think he maybe struggles with in such a game like yesterday is holding opponents off when in possession as he can't use his body so well.

I was thinking maybe Palmer might come on for him for that ability to manage to get us a bit higher up the pitch.

Sensible subs were made though one of which was going with Brunt and not Palmer. Palmer we don't know what we will get from still so would have been more of a gamble.

There will be others putting him under pressure i'm sure which is a good thing.

Williams in particular. Maybe Walsh and Morrell too.

Who knows with Palmer if he can put in another great performance mid week, this time against prem opponents.

As they say, a great problem to have. I rate Pato highly though and put in a great shift yesterday for the team.

Edited by JonDolman
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12 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

Will be interesting to see what happens over the season,,, in terms of age and ceiling, paterson is a less attractive option than walsh and palmer. He cant afford too many off days when walsh is back, but it seems holden really likes him, and has started the season as one of the preferred starters

Overall Paterson is something of a conundrum - when on his game, as shown by his impressive recent stats, he is a great asset, but we know from past experience his form will drop, and when it does he can fairly ineffectual.

At almost 29 do we keep playing him at the risk of losing the returning Walsh or Morrell, for instance, or is he one to make way and move on while he's on attractive form so the pathway into the team for our younger midfielders, who we know have genuinely great potential, is not blocked?

Tough one, but we know our midfield options need to be trimmed and if it had to be one or the other I'd really like to see Morrell & Walsh start to fulfil their potential in a City shirt rather than being sold to do it elsewhere.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, mozo said:

Certainly in terms of pass completion, Bakinson is smashing it!

Is c70% adequate for a good number 8 midfielder?

I don’t use terms like no8 etc, which seems very en vogue.

CMs - c80%

AMs / WMs - 75%

19/20 stars, but you need to look deeper than just passes.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t use terms like no8 etc, which seems very en vogue.

CMs - c80%

AMs / WMs - 75%

19/20 stars, but you need to look deeper than just passes.

Re 8s, yeah I'm only using that term for Pato and Weimann because that's what Holden and co refer to them as.

My eyes tell me that Weimann is frustratingly wasteful in possession and 70% is probably his mean passing figure.

Agree that passing % is only one metric and like all football stats doesn't tell much of the story. Definitely fits with my observation though that Bakinson was outstandingly accurate and Weimann and Paterson a tad sloppy. 

Holden himself has commented on our sloppiness in possession in games this season (he even mentioned that re the first 30 v N'Hampton), so I don't think it's just my confirmation bias!

 

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Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s only when you see stats like this that you realise just how much possession the back three have during a match.  Fascinating...

It does. Stoke weren't pressing very high so our defenders were more likely to be involved in the build up play.

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I'd love Kasey to be a fixture in the team and for him to flourish. 

Being pragmatic however if we are to be successful I suspect it is  more likely to be with players like Weimann and Patterson playing more regularly. 

I think DH has a real headache trying to decide his best midfield, made all the more difficult by the emergence of the Great British Bakofinson. 

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2 hours ago, downendcity said:

I'd love Kasey to be a fixture in the team and for him to flourish. 

Being pragmatic however if we are to be successful I suspect it is  more likely to be with players like Weimann and Patterson playing more regularly. 

I think DH has a real headache trying to decide his best midfield, made all the more difficult by the emergence of the Great British Bakofinson. 

Bakinson has made a massive impact,,, id assumed he would be sent out on loan to league 1, and eventually fell by the wayside.  
 

i will put my neck on the block here, and say for the sake of the pathway, and playing a brand of football that we saw against Northampton, and hopefully will see more of in the championship, that weimann and pato ought to be moved on. 
 

if everything clicks, with bakinson, morrell, walsh williams and palmer, that could form the basis of our midfield for years to come, or until they get sold.

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8 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Bakinson has made a massive impact,,, id assumed he would be sent out on loan to league 1, and eventually fell by the wayside.  
 

i will put my neck on the block here, and say for the sake of the pathway, and playing a brand of football that we saw against Northampton, and hopefully will see more of in the championship, that weimann and pato ought to be moved on. 
 

if everything clicks, with bakinson, morrell, walsh williams and palmer, that could form the basis of our midfield for years to come, or until they get sold.

Interesting opinion.

I think if Palmer has a brilliant performance against Villa then that might well have him seriously pushing for a start in the league over Paterson.

If Holden can turn Palmer into a much fitter, disciplined team player then my opinion of him will change massively. Villa a big opportunity for him to show that.

I don't expect Paterson to be sold. But he has got 1 year left. And we do have some serious talent in midfield and some have to go.

Weimann I can't see going anywhere this window. He will probably be one of our 4 strikers if Fam is sold. Occasionally playing midfield in certain games.

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8 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

How can he be described as poor. Our pressing was superb and Pato played a large part in that. (The second and third press are just as important as the first one). Sometimes you can have a good game without seeing much of the ball as Pato did today.

Exactly. 
 

The way the game panned out didn’t do much for the key hole viewer on their iPad, however he starts on merit and is still dangerous when not On the ball. He makes good runs into scoring positions ala Reading away among many others. 
 

Anyway top of the league and all that! 

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