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1 minute ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Theroretically if Joe WIlliams was still a Wigan player right now would we still sign him with Tyreeq Bakinson having made the start he has?

Just imagine them in the same side. We’d actually have 2 x players over 6 foot in our midfield. 

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This is the sort of carried away levels that are really silly on otib. 

Weve seen Bakinson play 90 mins against a championship team. He was undoubtedly excellent but you’re comparing him to a proper experienced campaigner who we got for a steal. 

So yes, we’d sign Him. 

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3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

This is the sort of carried away levels that are really silly on otib. 

Weve seen Bakinson play 90 mins against a championship team. He was undoubtedly excellent but you’re comparing him to a proper experienced campaigner who we got for a steal. 

So yes, we’d sign Him. 

 

2 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

The lad has started one game for crying out loud ....

let’s not get to carried away 

I know what your both saying and not getting carried away with the TB hysteria but we have still gone out and spent £1.5m + £15k p/w on a player that potetnially we wouldn't have if Bakinson was doing this last season. Nothing wrong with raising a valid question!

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Injuries, loss of form, suspension, general exhaustion  etc are reasons why any team needs strength in depth. Successful teams need a big squad with more than one player competing for each position 

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28 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

 

I know what your both saying and not getting carried away with the TB hysteria but we have still gone out and spent £1.5m + £15k p/w on a player that potetnially we wouldn't have if Bakinson was doing this last season. Nothing wrong with raising a valid question!

Even if Bakinson was 25 with 5 years experience, we would still need a replacement or second option in that position 

Williams was a steal at that price 

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36 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Yes, let's not add top much pressure and expectations to the lad. He's had a few good games, but we shouldn't expect the world

We've done the same with Massengo. 

Always good to have depth

Although it's hard not to get excited with the way he's playing 

Great point! First few games last season it was Massengo that looked a class above and now you hear people touting him for a loan.

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37 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

 

I know what your both saying and not getting carried away with the TB hysteria but we have still gone out and spent £1.5m + £15k p/w on a player that potetnially we wouldn't have if Bakinson was doing this last season. Nothing wrong with raising a valid question!

So going with your theory. Do you not think Joe WIlliams is the second best central midfielder we have at the club?

I think based on past evidence Joe Williams is the most proven central midfielder at the club. Just not for us. Because he's the only central midfielder at the club that has recent high level and consistent performances at this level. (Brunt played 12 times last year)

So I wouldn't be looking at him being the one who shouldn't be in the squad. Also I think they play different roles in central midfield.

So shouldn't your question be... should we try hard to move whoever you think is now expendable thanks to Bakinsons ascendance.

So who do you think is at the bottom of the pile?

Williams? Morrell? Walsh? Nagy? Massengo? Brunt?

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6 minutes ago, mozo said:

Great point! First few games last season it was Massengo that looked a class above and now you hear people touting him for a loan.

Think the difference is that TB has done his time on loan, although he is thought of as "a kid" he has over 40 Football league games under his belt already.

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10 minutes ago, mozo said:

Great point! First few games last season it was Massengo that looked a class above and now you hear people touting him for a loan.

Yep, likewise people were praising and then slating Moore and now he looks solid, 3 years later. There will be ups and downs but it does look promising for Bakinson, I also am certain Massengo will go on to have the best career out of anyone in the squad.

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1 minute ago, Prinny said:

 

So going with your theory. Do you not think Joe WIlliams is the second best central midfielder we have at the club? Not sure how to answer that without seeing WIlliams play for us as yet, you could make a case for the majority of the midfielders we have depenandant on what you like to see, personally I think Nagy is our best out and out central midfield player but can also understand why he hasn't started a league game in a long while.

I think based on past evidence Joe Williams is the most proven central midfielder at the club. Just not for us. Because he's the only central midfielder at the club that has recent high level and consistent performances at this level. (Brunt played 12 times last year) Define proven, Nagy has played in the Euro's for Hungary, Serie A etc which for me would make him more provent than WIlliams, Brunt has been there, seen it and done it but yes in terms of experience at this level yes Williams is towards the top of the list we have.

So I wouldn't be looking at him being the one who shouldn't be in the squad. Also I think they play different roles in central midfield. Never said he shouldn;t be in the squad, he clearly will be but my point was to highlight how the sudden progress of Bakinson may have chanegd our transfer plans retrospectively

So shouldn't your question be... should we try hard to move whoever you think is now expendable thanks to Bakinsons ascendance. Possibly, and yes the impact is likely to be on someone who maybe wouldn;t have been vulnaerbale prior to the emergence of Bakinson rather than Williams.

So who do you think is at the bottom of the pile?

Williams? Morrell? Walsh? Nagy? Massengo? Brunt? Morrell, can't see how he gets int the team now as the "holding midfielder" i.e. Bakinson / Williams, the "link / box to box" i.e Nagy, Walsh and now Weimann or the No.10 i.e. Pato / Palmer.

 

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2 minutes ago, Prinny said:

 

So going with your theory. Do you not think Joe WIlliams is the second best central midfielder we have at the club?

I think based on past evidence Joe Williams is the most proven central midfielder at the club. Just not for us. Because he's the only central midfielder at the club that has recent high level and consistent performances at this level. (Brunt played 12 times last year)

So I wouldn't be looking at him being the one who shouldn't be in the squad. Also I think they play different roles in central midfield.

So shouldn't your question be... should we try hard to move whoever you think is now expendable thanks to Bakinsons ascendance.

So who do you think is at the bottom of the pile?

Williams? Morrell? Walsh? Nagy? Massengo? Brunt?

If it was me, nagy is bottom of the pile, because he hasnt shown hes able to produce consistently in the championship from the games played. Massengo has played a similar number but is much younger, walsh and morrell havent really had the chance yet to show what they can do, Williams is an established championship midfielder, and brunt has only just come in, and wont be expected to play every game.

its reasonable to expect bakinson to lose form/ pick up knocks, but as it stands, hes earned the right to be first choice.

will be interesting to see how it pans out... in terms of age, and potential ceiling/ transfer value, paterson and weimann arent really long term solutions for an aspiring championship side in my view, where as walsh morrell williams and bakinson might be.

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I'd be happy il

14 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

Yep, likewise people were praising and then slating Moore and now he looks solid, 3 years later. There will be ups and downs but it does look promising for Bakinson, I also am certain Massengo will go on to have the best career out of anyone in the squad.

Absolument!!

...

If we transition towards Bakinson being the '6' and Walsh and Williams being the 2 '8s' I'd be happy with that.

That makes Pato, Nagy and Massengo back up options and Weimann an attacking option.

Edit...forgot Morrell, Brunt and Palmer 😄

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13 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Not sure how to answer that without seeing WIlliams play for us as yet, you could make a case for the majority of the midfielders we have depenandant on what you like to see, personally I think Nagy is our best out and out central midfield player but can also understand why he hasn't started a league game in a long while.

Define proven, Nagy has played in the Euro's for Hungary, Serie A etc which for me would make him more provent than WIlliams, Brunt has been there, seen it and done it but yes in terms of experience at this level yes Williams is towards the top of the list we have.

Proven in the championship means has played well in the championship. Williams has a year and a half of that for Bolton and Wigan. No one else has that many good games in the championship in that time frame in our squad. That's obviously opinion based, but you'll have to do the leg work of reading Boltan and Wigans fans views.

Never said he shouldn;t be in the squad, he clearly will be but my point was to highlight how the sudden progress of Bakinson may have chanegd our transfer plans retrospectively

No I don't think so because it's still IMO an upgrade over several others. I think we'd still bring in Williams if we knew Bakinson was going to be this good.

So who do you think is at the bottom of the pile?

Williams? Morrell? Walsh? Nagy? Massengo? Brunt? Morrell, can't see how he gets int the team now as the "holding midfielder" i.e. Bakinson / Williams, the "link / box to box" i.e Nagy, Walsh and now Weimann or the No.10 i.e. Pato / Palmer.

That's the real interesting thing for me. We could be.. genuinely looking at the likes of Joe Morrell as someone to move on. Fascinating development IMO!

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6 minutes ago, Prinny said:

That's the real interesting thing for me. We could be.. genuinely looking at the likes of Joe Morrell as someone to move on. Fascinating development IMO!

AS I say he's the only one I genuinely can't see where he fits in, will be interesting to see what happens with Liam Walsh's contract situation as when Holden was on the radio last week it sounded like a done deal but has gone very quiet since. If he doesn't end up signing and leaves to go elsewhere then that may keep Morrell more involved than he would have been otherwise , similar situation with Eliasson and O'Dowda, if NE signs on the dotted line (unlikely IMO) than difficult to see how Callum gets any game time at all once the Carabao Cup is finished.

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There different players. 

Joe Williams can sit & play as a screen but his natural game is box to box running around like a bull in a china shop & loves a sliding tackle. Although decent on the ball he’s not as a good ‘footballer’ as TB but offers different strengths like mentioned above. 

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1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said:

 

I know what your both saying and not getting carried away with the TB hysteria but we have still gone out and spent £1.5m + £15k p/w on a player that potetnially we wouldn't have if Bakinson was doing this last season. Nothing wrong with raising a valid question!

But he wouldn’t of been doing this last season because he was a year younger & hadn’t had any real experience of men’s football.

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3 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But he wouldn’t of been doing this last season because he was a year younger & hadn’t had any real experience of men’s football.

I know, it was meant more hypthetically, the emergence of Bakinson has made the signings of Williams and Brunt look a little excessive now but at the time they were probably the correct thing to do. Nice problems to have I suppose but will probably mean someone else moving on that perhaps wouldn't have previously

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

This is the sort of carried away levels that are really silly on otib. 

Weve seen Bakinson play 90 mins against a championship team. He was undoubtedly excellent but you’re comparing him to a proper experienced campaigner who we got for a steal. 

So yes, we’d sign Him

Come on, he's good but he's not THAT good

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1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Theroretically if Joe WIlliams was still a Wigan player right now would we still sign him with Tyreeq Bakinson having made the start he has?

Yes

15 minutes ago, redcherryberry said:

There different players. 

Joe Williams can sit & play as a screen but his natural game is box to box running around like a bull in a china shop & loves a sliding tackle. Although decent on the ball he’s not as a good ‘footballer’ as TB but offers different strengths like mentioned above. 

Yes, different players....not sure I totally agree with the bit in bold.  Need to see more of “T” in the final third first.

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19 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

I know, it was meant more hypthetically, the emergence of Bakinson has made the signings of Williams and Brunt look a little excessive now but at the time they were probably the correct thing to do. Nice problems to have I suppose but will probably mean someone else moving on that perhaps wouldn't have previously

I’m not sure I understand why we’ve signed Brunt anyway, not someone I think we really needed.

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1 hour ago, Dolman_Stand said:

 

I know what your both saying and not getting carried away with the TB hysteria but we have still gone out and spent £1.5m + £15k p/w on a player that potetnially we wouldn't have if Bakinson was doing this last season. Nothing wrong with raising a valid question!

With all possible respect, maybe he was but in L2. Plymouth fans were very keen on his return.

He's a young player without the experience of Williams, we have 2 excellent players in a position where we have previously had none.

Let's enjoy the lad but not put too much on him, he could be sensational.

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