Zak Vyner

[Harry]

55 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

Perhaps it’s because, like me, they failed to detect any trace of irony. I guess the rest of us must just be out of step with your sense of humour...

The quote referred to slapstick comedy and custard pies. Did anyone really take that seriously?? 

[Phileas Fogg]

I've never been completely sold on Vyner. He always looks a bit hesitant to me and like an accident waiting to happen. My gut instinct is that he's not quite good enough for where we aspire to be as a club - but as he's a young academy player I would be delighted if he proves me wrong.

[CliftonCliff]

47 minutes ago, Harry said:

The quote referred to slapstick comedy and custard pies. Did anyone really take that seriously?? 

I don't know. You'd have to ask them.

I can only speak for myself. In my case, I think what caught my attention was the disproportionate, excessive criticism of the player. Worst you've seen at AG in many a year (really?), wouldn't pay a tenner to watch a game in future if you knew in advance that he was on the team sheet (wow!); runs around a lot and does nothing, etc. etc. Doesn't really sound like you were just having a laugh, does it?

I think in the context of all that, your somewhat incongruous reference to custard pies went over my head. Like I said, maybe just irony failure on my part.

Maybe.

[RedRock]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Sessegnon

 Comments embedded, but a bit weirdly, so please expand each section. Ta.

As ever Dave, perceptive as always and points supported with useful facts.

Don’t tell RobF, but you’re rapidly becoming my favourite poster

 

The problem with Taylor Moore is that he often isn’t in trouble when he leathers it - few passing options maybe, but no one directly challenging him. It’s like on, or around the half-way line he just has a rush of blood when he’s done a run with the ball.

There is an excellent player in the making, if he can get rid of these silly passing errors.

[DT The Optimist]

Interesting one and reading this thread a cross section of thoughts and opinions . Shows how we all see it differently.  
My own take is that with all fit he will not near the match day squad.

 Yet he has now accumulated A lot of starts at different levels. Anyone  know what Aberdeen fans thought of him? 

[chipdawg]

I think that Moore is superior to Vyner. And I think Vyner is a perfectly serviceable squad player provided that he has someone 'senior' alongside them. I think that the same is kind of true regarding Moore, but I think he does a better job of keeping his head above water without quite the same level of support. I'm just speculating based on observations, I'm sure @Davefevs or someone will come along with some stats that prove me wrong! Given that last night's back 3 included 2 inexperienced players and a left back/midfielder up against a very physical, young striker in good form and two very skillful internationals with a lot of games at the highest level, I'm not sure we should be casting tooany aspersions on what Vyner (or Moore) can or can't do

[marcofisher]

7 hours ago, grifty said:

I think he's a good back-up player. Wages won't be high, won't expect to play every week. I don't worry when he has the ball, sometimes I do when he doesn't.

He's got a good cross-pitch long ball to the LWB though.

Spot on really. Most of the "he's not good enough sell him" brigade don't have a clue how valuable it is to have a versatile defender on half the wages that a replacement would cost. Money can be better invested in other areas.

[Monkeh]

6 hours ago, Kykoliko said:

Moore is vastly superior to Vyner - I really can't see how anyone can view it otherwise!

Having said that, they play a pretty different game, particularly on the ball.

Moore has obviously been tasked with bringing the ball out of defence and has been largely successful. He did struggle a bit last night but that is to be expected against a Prem team that presses tightly in midfield. Defensively speaking, he is solid. He reads the game well, he is a quick and does well to interrupt passes before they become a problem.

Vyner on the other hand has a preference for the Alexander-Arnold-esque crossfield wonder passes and to be fair to him, he's reasonable at them. It's the shorter build up play where I think he is quite ponderous. There were a few situations in the last couple of games where quick distribution to a player on the left wing was on but Vyner didn't take the option. I also feel like Vyner gets caught out of position more often than Moore.

Going on this season alone id have vyner over Moore, Taylor has been really disappointing so far this season

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, RedRock said:

As ever Dave, perceptive as always and points supported with useful facts.

Don’t tell RobF, but you’re rapidly becoming my favourite poster

 

The problem with Taylor Moore is that he often isn’t in trouble when he leathers it - few passing options maybe, but no one directly challenging him. It’s like on, or around the half-way line he just has a rush of blood when he’s done a run with the ball.

There is an excellent player in the making, if he can get rid of these silly passing errors.

Yep, sometimes he just needs to stop, look around and show some composure.  There’s running towards congestion and carrying on...and there’s running towards congestion, realising it and then looking for the best option.

1 hour ago, chipdawg said:

I think that Moore is superior to Vyner. And I think Vyner is a perfectly serviceable squad player provided that he has someone 'senior' alongside them. I think that the same is kind of true regarding Moore, but I think he does a better job of keeping his head above water without quite the same level of support. I'm just speculating based on observations, I'm sure @Davefevs or someone will come along with some stats that prove me wrong! Given that last night's back 3 included 2 inexperienced players and a left back/midfielder up against a very physical, young striker in good form and two very skillful internationals with a lot of games at the highest level, I'm not sure we should be casting tooany aspersions on what Vyner (or Moore) can or can't do

Not sure stats help here.  One thing I’d say is that my expectation levels of each are different.  I expect Moore to be better than Vyner (due to my perception of his ability and experience at this level).  That might be a bit unfair.  Both have done fine so far, both had dodgy moments, both had good moments.  Against my expectation I think Vyner has done slightly better, but in all probability they’ve been fairly equal.

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Spot on really. Most of the "he's not good enough sell him" brigade don't have a clue how valuable it is to have a versatile defender on half the wages that a replacement would cost. Money can be better invested in other areas.

Yes, the expectation of a squad from some posters has no thought of budget, playing time expectation of players, etc etc.

27 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Going on this season alone id have vyner over Moore, Taylor has been really disappointing so far this season

Just interested (see my point above) whether you had greater expectations of Moore than Vyner.

Also, worth remembering Moore had to play LCB too...Vyner played all 5 at RCB.

[JoeAman08]

I think Vyner is better than Moore personally. At least through the first 5 games. Vyner is perfect for that RCB role with his passing and crossing ability. His defending will only get better imo with more minutes.

For me Vyner Kalas and Mawson is our best 3. Is Baker a better defender? Yes but think he would need to play the central role and would push Kalas wide. Don’t think Kalas is as good an option wide in possession. 

[Kykoliko]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Going on this season alone id have vyner over Moore, Taylor has been really disappointing so far this season

That honestly baffles me.

Then again I did read posts berating Moore for going to ground for Villa's first goal. Obviously telling him apart from Rowe is a struggle for some.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Kykoliko said:

That honestly baffles me.

Then again I did read posts berating Moore for going to ground for Villa's first goal. Obviously telling him apart from Rowe is a struggle for some.

I was one of them....I didn’t berate him though....just words along the lines of “Davis did Moore there”.  Thought it was him.

[JamesBCFC]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Careful squire. You’re not allowed to start an individual player thread, saying he’s not good enough. (See responses to my Nagy thread).

Not as if there is a difference in tone and wording between your op and this threads op is it?

[Chappers]

First 4 games, 1 goal conceded, so the defence as a unit must be doing something right. Against Villa we had no defensive cover at LWB, and no experienced CB, so it was always going to be difficult, and they did as well as could be expected against a quality attack. We have two very good, young CB’s, plus Bakinson and Semenyo really stepping up. Let’s look on the positive side, it can only be good for the future.

[Red Ferret]

39 minutes ago, Chappers said:

First 4 games, 1 goal conceded, so the defence as a unit must be doing something right. Against Villa we had no defensive cover at LWB, and no experienced CB, so it was always going to be difficult, and they did as well as could be expected against a quality attack. We have two very good, young CB’s, plus Bakinson and Semenyo really stepping up. Let’s look on the positive side, it can only be good for the future.

Yep, let's cut our youngsters a bit of slack. Villa have spent Man City/Barca levels of money the last couple years. They were always going to beat us. There's zero need to start laying into our young players over this result, it's ridiculous 

[2015]

2 hours ago, Kykoliko said:

That honestly baffles me.

Then again I did read posts berating Moore for going to ground for Villa's first goal. Obviously telling him apart from Rowe is a struggle for some.

I certainly was effing and jeffing at home about Rowe when he did that. You don't just dive in like that, it was amateur defending.

[Kykoliko]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I was one of them....I didn’t berate him though....just words along the lines of “Davis did Moore there”.  Thought it was him.

Sh*t happens!

It put it down to frustration momentarily eclipsing perception and reason. It was pretty laughable defending to be fair.

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, 2015 said:

I certainly was effing and jeffing at home about Rowe when he did that. You don't just dive in like that, it was amateur defending.

Players make mistakes.