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Intrigued to see what people’s opinions of Zak are. He’s a confusing one for me as seen flashes that show him as a talented player with ability and was superb at Swansea away. However, watching him defend he gets beat too easily and got caught ball watching a couple of long diagonals last night that put his man 1-1 with keeper.  He’s 23 with over 100 games at various clubs and not convinced he’s a long term starter for us but could be wrong.

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Just now, Shuffle said:

Intrigued to see what people’s opinions of Zak are. He’s a confusing one for me as seen flashes that show him as a talented player with ability and was superb at Swansea away. However, watching him defend he gets beat too easily and got caught ball watching a couple of long diagonals last night that put his man 1-1 with keeper.  He’s 23 with over 100 games at various clubs and not convinced he’s a long term starter for us but could be wrong.

If you look at our centre back options when everyone's fit, he's 5th choice for me behind Kalas, Mawson, Baker and Moore and for me he's the guy to drop out of the side when Kalas is back fit. I think generally he's done well since coming into the side post DH taking over but agree against real quality he can be got at defensively as the Villa game showed. Overall though with his versatility he is a decent to good squad player for the level we want to get to but nothing more than that imo.

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I feel like all his current errors will erode with age and the more he plays. This season will be big for him, so far so good and I believe he will improve. If he doesn't kick on this season or potentially even the next one I could see him being sold. 

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10 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Intrigued to see what people’s opinions of Zak are. He’s a confusing one for me as seen flashes that show him as a talented player with ability and was superb at Swansea away. However, watching him defend he gets beat too easily and got caught ball watching a couple of long diagonals last night that put his man 1-1 with keeper.  He’s 23 with over 100 games at various clubs and not convinced he’s a long term starter for us but could be wrong.

Not good enough...

Flog him for every penny we can milk from some 'soft melt right now..

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4 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Intrigued to see what people’s opinions of Zak are. He’s a confusing one for me as seen flashes that show him as a talented player with ability and was superb at Swansea away. However, watching him defend he gets beat too easily and got caught ball watching a couple of long diagonals last night that put his man 1-1 with keeper.  He’s 23 with over 100 games at various clubs and not convinced he’s a long term starter for us but could be wrong.

Same as Moore.

Good athlete. Good attitude. Comfortable on the ball. Needs to be stronger, more dominant, with more controlled aggression - forwards always look comfortable up against him, he needs to make it uncomfortable and for 90 minutes. Probably not quite good enough but it's early days so happy to be proved wrong in the long run. 

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21 minutes ago, WirralRobin said:

If you look at our centre back options when everyone's fit, he's 5th choice for me behind Kalas, Mawson, Baker and Moore and for me he's the guy to drop out of the side when Kalas is back fit. I think generally he's done well since coming into the side post DH taking over but agree against real quality he can be got at defensively as the Villa game showed. Overall though with his versatility he is a decent to good squad player for the level we want to get to but nothing more than that imo.

Pretty much as I see it.  Got some things to learn, physically and aerially, but he hasn’t let us down, and he’s done better than I’d expected him too.

16 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Isnt he more of a right back to be fair to him? If so he is going to look a bit out place in DH's 532, as he isnt a RWB IMHO

His first game at RB was his debut v MKD!!  He’s a CB, but he has proved he can be versatile.  Think as a young’un (pre-18s) he played a bit in midfield too.

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I think he's a good back-up player. Wages won't be high, won't expect to play every week. I don't worry when he has the ball, sometimes I do when he doesn't.

He's got a good cross-pitch long ball to the LWB though.

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24 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Same as Moore.

Good athlete. Good attitude. Comfortable on the ball. Needs to be stronger, more dominant, with more controlled aggression - forwards always look comfortable up against him, he needs to make it uncomfortable and for 90 minutes. Probably not quite good enough but it's early days so happy to be proved wrong in the long run. 

I think Moore is a level above Vyner.

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Replying to Super:

Yes I agree, at the moment he seems to have taken a step further forward. I've particularly liked his controlled aggression - something which I'd  guess doesn't  come naturally to him (he seems too nice a fella to be a footballer!) but was vital that he added this to his game. 

 

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Young. Got potential. Getting match experience to develop. 

He won't be 10/10 every game (or a 7, 8 or 9) otherwise he wouldn't be with us. But this opportunity is a perfect one for him to grasp and develop. If it doesn't work, we move on. We as fans have to learn to give our youth a chance and not write them off so quickly - especially not after a game against a good PL side.

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This is going against the grain but at the moment i think he is better than TM, Taylor can sometimes let the ball bounce off of him when trying to control it also he is sometimes careless with his passing.

i dont see any of this with Zac.

I should of added i think they are both decent with room to improve even more. 

Edited by cidercity
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1 hour ago, Shuffle said:

Intrigued to see what people’s opinions of Zak are. He’s a confusing one for me as seen flashes that show him as a talented player with ability and was superb at Swansea away. However, watching him defend he gets beat too easily and got caught ball watching a couple of long diagonals last night that put his man 1-1 with keeper.  He’s 23 with over 100 games at various clubs and not convinced he’s a long term starter for us but could be wrong.

Careful squire. You’re not allowed to start an individual player thread, saying he’s not good enough. (See responses to my Nagy thread). 🤐

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10 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I think Vyner is a level above Moore 😂

Seems to have better distribution as well from what I’ve seen of him in CB. 

Think if Kalas had stayed fit he might have stayed in the side instead of Moore myself.

I like him, not the finished article but quick, athletic & versatile.

Will play an important role this season & also means that with him, Max & Antoine all in the squad on merit we aren’t fudging that home produced player rule.

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I thought he was ‘adequate’ last night.

The whole team seemed a bit Johnsonque to me. A bit of a muddle, no clear plan, fluidity etc. 

 

It’s Taylor Moore that’s beginning to worry me a bit. This repeated charging up the pitch with the ball is fine. But to then, seemingly, boot it anywhere as he approaches/crosses the half way line is criminal. That at least 3 times I’ve seen him do it. He did this in the first half in a very wobbly performance. An assured second-half eased my fears a bit, but surely some of our coaches are picking up on this and told him to stop it. It leaves him woefully out of position and the team horrendously exposed. 

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Think he was our best centre back yesterday. Very good against Stoke. Seemed to win a lot in the air. Very good on the ball. Cross field passes very accurate.

Last season he came in and was motm in one of those final games. And generally did very well for us.

Villa were quality last night. Our back 3 played a high line with players pushing on trying to score a goal. 

I think he looks really good. And hopefully improves as he gets older. 

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19 minutes ago, Harry said:

Careful squire. You’re not allowed to start an individual player thread, saying he’s not good enough. (See responses to my Nagy thread). 🤐

Thats because you came over like a 12 year old who lost his favourite Pokemon card.

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1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Same as Moore.

Good athlete. Good attitude. Comfortable on the ball. Needs to be stronger, more dominant, with more controlled aggression - forwards always look comfortable up against him, he needs to make it uncomfortable and for 90 minutes. Probably not quite good enough but it's early days so happy to be proved wrong in the long run. 

Obviously didn’t watch Stoke game, I thought after a shakey start he was dominating in the error and wasn’t out muscled. As this was his 4th game of the season since being back from multiple loans he is starting to get into the player we all want to see. 

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1 hour ago, BoneyardTIM said:

Thats because you came over like a 12 year old who lost his favourite Pokemon card.

Oh believe me - if I’d lost my fave Pokemon card, you’d know all about it. 
You ain’t seen nothin yet! 

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

Careful squire. You’re not allowed to start an individual player thread, saying he’s not good enough. (See responses to my Nagy thread). 🤐

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. However, sometimes it can be not so much what you say, but how you say it that evokes the kind of response I think you may be referring to. Have you considered that possibility at all?

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1 minute ago, CliftonCliff said:

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. However, sometimes it can be not so much what you say, but how you say it that evokes the kind of response I think you may be referring to. Have you considered that possibility at all?

Indeed sir. 
The Nagy post was written with an attempted ‘light’ humour. Not sure why people are so bloody serious about it. 

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Moore is vastly superior to Vyner - I really can't see how anyone can view it otherwise!

Having said that, they play a pretty different game, particularly on the ball.

Moore has obviously been tasked with bringing the ball out of defence and has been largely successful. He did struggle a bit last night but that is to be expected against a Prem team that presses tightly in midfield. Defensively speaking, he is solid. He reads the game well, he is a quick and does well to interrupt passes before they become a problem.

Vyner on the other hand has a preference for the Alexander-Arnold-esque crossfield wonder passes and to be fair to him, he's reasonable at them. It's the shorter build up play where I think he is quite ponderous. There were a few situations in the last couple of games where quick distribution to a player on the left wing was on but Vyner didn't take the option. I also feel like Vyner gets caught out of position more often than Moore.

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1 hour ago, RedRock said:

I thought he was ‘adequate’ last night.

The whole team seemed a bit Johnsonque to me. A bit of a muddle, no clear plan, fluidity etc.

it seemed anything but Johnsonesque to me.  The plan is to build from the back, through the midfield, get the wingbacks high and go from there.  Against better opposition that isn’t always gonna come off, but the plan was there.  We actually got our WBs into really good positions, but didn’t execute well, or good defending (?).

Eliasson:

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Sessegnon

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Quote

It’s Taylor Moore that’s beginning to worry me a bit. This repeated charging up the pitch with the ball is fine. But to then, seemingly, boot it anywhere as he approaches/crosses the half way line is criminal.

believe it or not, this is not that dissimilar to Webster.  He would maraud forward but into condensed areas of the pitch.  Occasionally he woukd break that barrier, with the ball or with a pass between the lines.  But often he’d eventually have to go sideways or backwards.  Don’t get me wrong Webster was smooth on the ball, but his runs forward weren’t threatening (in the main), partly because Pack immediately dropped in losing any numerical advantage we had in the midfield.

Taylor needs to reflect back on those funds last night, and recognise when he’s just running into trouble.

That at least 3 times I’ve seen him do it. He did this in the first half in a very wobbly performance. An assured second-half eased my fears a bit, but surely some of our coaches are picking up on this and told him to stop it. It leaves him woefully out of position and the team horrendously exposed.

yep, looks good until the point where he has nowhere to go...and rushes his next action. 

⬆️⬆️⬆️ Comments embedded, but a bit weirdly, so please expand each section. Ta.

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