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Joe Morrell - Perm to Luton Confirmed (Merged)


B-Rizzle

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8 hours ago, Matthew me said:

I'm sure it was likely ?

Let's face it, none of us know. We're all clueless and guessing most of the time ?

Speak for yourself, not everyone on this forum is ‘clueless’, a great many aren’t.

It feels like you are pleased that Morrell didn’t do well tonight (didn’t see the game myself so just going on what’s been written) to suit your agenda.

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7 hours ago, phantom said:

The problem is apart from a few brief cameo appearances, nobody on here regularly watched him play. 

I found it mildly amusing how so many were experts on his performances and had him pencilled into for our starting line up after playing at LINCOLN. 

Loads of people (myself included) putting Walsh and Williams into our ideal first 11 despite most of us barely having watched them play. Is that different?

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15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Speak for yourself, not everyone on this forum is ‘clueless’, a great many aren’t.

It feels like you are pleased that Morrell didn’t do well tonight (didn’t see the game myself so just going on what’s been written) to suit your agenda.

My word, you.really do take it to heart.

Ok Mr Fogg. You're not clueless. Better?

It was said in jest 

I do have an agenda. I want Joe to be brilliant. I haven't said anything different, ever!

My only point, I hadn't seen anything yet to justify the view he's going to be great

 

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7 hours ago, phantom said:

The problem is apart from a few brief cameo appearances, nobody on here regularly watched him play. 

I found it mildly amusing how so many were experts on his performances and had him pencilled into for our starting line up after playing at LINCOLN. 

100% correct!!!!! At last, I'm not alone!!!!!!

That's my point and I get slaughtered for saying it

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19 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

My word, you.really do take it to heart.

Ok Mr Fogg. You're not clueless. Better?

It was said in jest 

I do have an agenda. I want Joe to be brilliant. I haven't said anything different, ever!

My only point, I hadn't seen anything yet to justify the view he's going to be great

 

Thank you, not taken anything to heart just thought it was an odd thing to say.

I think ultimately your agenda is that you feel people are overrating Morrell based on not having watched him play, perhaps a valid point.

The counterpoint to that is that there are some that have watched him play who can give an informed view - @Davefevs for one. Informed views of posters, international caps and awards whilst on loan is evidence enough for others who haven’t watched him play to think he might be ready for inclusion in the first team squad. That’s all it is. 

It feels like you’re hypercritical of Morrell because you want to prove your point that he’s been overrated by some who haven’t watched him enough to have a valid view.

The other consideration is that he was playing opponents of a far higher level than we’ll play all season. 

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12 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Apologies if it's been mentioned already, Joe is number 16.

On a separate note, did you hear the England players sing the national anthem with great gusto? No, me neither. Mumble, mumble, mumble.

To be fair, I don't sing it either. It is a dirge, and involves an imaginary being I don't believe in saving an institution I think should be scrapped.

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9 hours ago, Matthew me said:

Agreed. Let's hope he.gets another crack at it on Sunday and pushes on

I'll say it again.. young with potential.

Not having a dig, I'm sure he could be our next gem. Just didn't see anything great tonight. All players can have an off day

He's 24 in January - that's not young in football these days. On that basis Semenyo must still be classified a toddler.

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11 hours ago, Leveller said:

So instead of an easy pass and keeping possession they passed it into touch.

your comments are spot on,i like most was keeping a keen eye on joe last night and felt a bit sorry for him took up good postions always wanted the ball but no one would pass to him.

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11 hours ago, Irishred said:

Callum O'Dowda now on for Republic of Ireland in Extra Time.

 

Sounds like he almost won the game for them. 

"The Republic continued to dominate in extra time as Browne was hugely unfortunate to see his flicked effort hit the foot of a post after brilliant work by substitute Callum O'Dowda."

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1 minute ago, redsocks said:

I would of thought holdens pretty pissed off as this was morrells first start this season.not fit to play for us but can play for wales.

Not sure there is any reason to assume he'd be pissed off. I'd imagine it far more the norm that club and country talk to each other about where players are with their fitness. It may very well be that Morrell has recently returned to fitness and Holden was glad of Morrell getting 45 minutes to build up match fitness. The fact he was subbed at half time suggests a plan to get him some minutes rather than a gung ho approach. 

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10 hours ago, phantom said:

The problem is apart from a few brief cameo appearances, nobody on here regularly watched him play. 

I found it mildly amusing how so many were experts on his performances and had him pencilled into for our starting line up after playing at LINCOLN. 

Football is very much dog eat dog and at the moment there aren't many bigger dogs about than Tyreeq Bakinson (he is young and form will fluctuate). The lad has made the most of an opportunity that might have even come as a surprise to him but he's shown what you've got to do when an opportunity comes along. Don't be thankful for the break just go out there and show that you should have had the break anyway and belong in the first team. Similarly with Semenyo and although he hasn't quite torn it up like Bakinson just yet he is certainly showing early signs that he will contribute noticeably this season even if it's primarily as an impact player to start with. Morrell has a lot of work to do just to get on our bench at the moment firstly because we have about 112 midfield players on the books and secondly the ones selected are doing it where it matters right now. It's going to be an interesting next two or three months for the lad.............critical to his chances of a long term future here.

As I think you may be hinting, having a great season in League 1 and playing international football for Wales, sometimes against opposition that you would expect City to turn over comfortably, is no guarantee that you are a quality Championship midfield player. It shows you have potential but that's it. Plenty of players have been there and didn't buy the t-shirt. Like Bakinson and Semenyo, Morrell has to force his way in to the first team and do it in the Championship before we can start talking about how good he might be.

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4 hours ago, Port Red said:

See below

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

@Davefevs is better at reading these things than me (most of us), but it looked to me that Joe was patrolling a central zone rather than marking a specific player. The only time Grealish did anything in the first half was when he went wider and further forward.

See below

1 hour ago, phil_clevedon said:

Interesting, the "secret scout" says Joe "could not command the ball" in the second half. Maybe that's because he was subbed at half-time ??

I would suggest the Secret Scout didn’t watch the match very carefully.  It was clear that Ampadu played as the deeper CM....with J.Williams to his left and Morrell to his right.

Found this in twitter, this is each player’s average position for the first 40 minutes of the game, before Moore went off.

2E782DC7-C76D-46A6-9B12-E13E2EE93931.thumb.jpeg.e8e2d00fbe7613b6d9022e14cea6bee4.jpeg

This pretty much matches the first half I watched.  Morrell advanced, but not getting on the ball.  Not getting on the ball was disappointing for me because I wanted to see that neat and tidy, keep the ball moving style he has when playing in the deeper CM role.

But....

7293B3D5-4741-46D1-8AF7-066FE5023444.thumb.jpeg.9a580f1e93202180d15abe54b71d6281.jpeg

...look how Joe’s advanced position, getting close to Winks (and sometimes Grealish), stopped England getting Sako forward, or Grealish being the recipient of Winks passes in between the lines.  England’s left side attack was non-existent.  Joe was helped by the two Roberts (Tyler and Conor).

so....

51E9845A-A361-490B-B36B-DE798855AADE.thumb.jpeg.cafa3cfd1a9e0dbe1481556bf88c8420.jpeg

whilst it was disappointing to see Morrell only make 15 passes, it very much looks like he was part of a plan by Giggs to contain Grealish and Sako.

It is fair to say that Levitt, his h-t replacement, made 1 more Pass but he also massively allowed England a bigger threat down their left.

87 minutes of a 90 are spent without the ball (last night for Joe it was 44 out of 45).  His without the ball discipline is missed by those who just watch the player in possession.

 

 

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You'd get a better understanding of what he can do if you watched him in the previous international break.

He looked very comfortable and capable in CM.

As evidenced by Mr Fevs, he was playing to instruction last night and whilst it's not one for the highlight reel, he did a job in there.

How he gets a chance in a City 11 from here i don't know. The MF is a real head scratcher given the number of options.

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8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

So I've learned today that if your "Normalized Pass Radar" is a bit off you are having an absolute stinker of a game...........................

Would have been interesting to see charts for Ray Wilkins to find out whether he did only pass the ball sideways or whether that was a myth!!

Can’t do Ray Wilkins, but here’s a chart of City since the start of last season, showing forward passes versus sideways and backwards.

48D5A82E-EAD9-4F11-A430-9876FFD94798.thumb.jpeg.d2d5c524cfeffc1c2855e240d777661b.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, Gazred said:

You'd get a better understanding of what he can do if you watched him in the previous international break.

He looked very comfortable and capable in CM.

As evidenced by Mr Fevs, he was playing to instruction last night and whilst it's not one for the highlight reel, he did a job in there.

How he gets a chance in a City 11 from here i don't know. The MF is a real head scratcher given the number of options.

One could argue you would have a better understanding oh what Joe can do against inferior opposition in the previous international break.  

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20 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

One could argue you would have a better understanding oh what Joe can do against inferior opposition in the previous international break.  

Got to consider the team performance also but it's a fair point.

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32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Can’t do Ray Wilkins, but here’s a chart of City since the start of last season, showing forward passes versus sideways and backwards.

48D5A82E-EAD9-4F11-A430-9876FFD94798.thumb.jpeg.d2d5c524cfeffc1c2855e240d777661b.jpeg

That's interesting. Obviously it's a smaller sample size, but looks like a definite upward trend. I haven't bothered to research, but is there any correlation between results and lateral/back vs forward passing?

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I'm not dissing Morrell by any means. But I agree with @phantom that he is yet another young player that is praised to the skies by some on Otib on sparse evidence of Championship play time. The same enthusiasts routinely rubbish first team players who ARE performing at this level.

I hope we get to see him and can assess his progress. He looked pretty tidy but not dazzling in his few cameos here and he has had good games for Wales.

We've seen this season, Semenyo has improved 100% on his performances under Johnson and Bakinson is maybe 300% better than his fleeting moments before this season suggested.  A similar progression would make Joe a strong player indeed.

But the proof will be in the pudding and DH hasn't offered us that particular dessert yet.

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4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm not dissing Morrell by any means. But I agree with @phantom that he is yet another young player that is praised to the skies by some on Otib on sparse evidence of Championship play time. The same enthusiasts routinely rubbish first team players who ARE performing at this level.

I hope we get to see him and can assess his progress. He looked pretty tidy but not dazzling in his few cameos here and he has had good games for Wales.

We've seen this season, Semenyo has improved 100% on his performances under Johnson and Bakinson is maybe 300% better than his fleeting moments before this season suggested.  A similar progression would make Joe a strong player indeed.

But the proof will be in the pudding and DH hasn't offered us that particular dessert yet.

I don’t think many are praising him to the skies, they are just saying he’s a decent player, who has a chance.

To rubbish any City player who has played a decent amount at this level is a bit silly.  Even the players who I don’t think have done great or have dropped off, I still think are talented...just not as good as others. 

We have several players with limited Champ experience - Morrell, Walsh, Bakinson are three.  They all have ability.  Making it at this level in the tough Championship midfield is hard.  Not trying to dismiss Bakinson’s early displays because they’ve been good....but his challenge will come when opponents suss him out and start targeting him.  But, boy has he taken his early chance.  Given Holden a lot to think about, which is all he can do.  And Joe and Liam have got a lot of work to do!

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Just now, Davefevs said:

I don’t think many are praising him to the skies, they are just saying he’s a decent player, who has a chance.

To rubbish any City player who has played a decent amount at this level is a bit silly.

I disagree, a few months back Morrell was being mentioned as starting in midfield with Walsh this season.

As for playing "a decent amount at this level"

image.png

 

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9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

But the proof will be in the pudding and DH hasn't offered us that particular dessert yet.

Disagree. Fer me, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating (of said pudding). Let's have it right on Otibs for once. Without actually filling our face with the pudding, the pudding is neither this or that. Only a pudding.

Incidentally, you cannot make a pudding without breaking some eggs. Food for thought for Deano here....

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