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Joe Morrell - Perm to Luton Confirmed (Merged)


B-Rizzle

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One major reason for his departure in my opinion was his size. We all know you can get little terriers or dynamos as they're referred to but, I don't think Joe falls into that category. As such, he doesn't offer what our new man in charge is after and is surplus to requirements. Tidy little player who keeps the ball moving, somewhat like our previous man in charge, so not good enough for this level or the step up should we achieve that.

We're an all round bigger tougher unit now, so no need to reduce that with his inclusion in the squad. We've suffered for too long with being bullied by more physical teams and still have our fair quota of smaller players, should anyone want to feel bigger than they actually are.

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4 hours ago, Prinny said:

Totally fine with him going.

Think he'll be a good champ player, but he doesn't fit our current system and is unlikely to be a first team player for us.

He's 23, time to go play football for a team that wants you. Bakinson's 21, and ahead of him, Williams is 23 with a year and half of good championship games behind him, Walsh is 23 and "a big part of the way we want to play" Massengo is 19 and has more championship experience, and when Joe Morrell was 19 he was coming off failed loans to Sutton and Margate.

Watching him for Wales, he's a neat and tidy continuity player, an organiser, a disciplined trustworthy player for Giggs, but that's it IMO. He cannot play in the Prem with his size speed and lack of USPs to use a Johnsonism. Players have an opportunity every day in training, and every second they're out on loan. Holden's been really good SO FAR with his analysis on players so I'm pretty comfortable with this decision.

I think it's good for Joe who'll want first team football as he mentioned in that BBC interview, and it's good that someone came in and offered us something for a player who's low in the pecking order here, who's behind at least three players either his age or younger than him.

We already have players who can do what he can do. For those whining he hasn't had a chance, you get your chances every day. Every time you play on loan. How do you think Bakinson got a shot? By performing. Morrell was training with us for months at the end of last season. Walsh impressed enough, Moore impressed enough, those were both players out on loan and who came back to train with us who got the exact same shot Morrell did.

So totally fine with this. Hope he does well in his career except against us, time for him to move on, time for us to move him on. All good IMO.

Excellent post and for me this can be edited slightly then cut and paste should KP join Swansea tomorrow.

We simply have too many midfielders and JM and KP both need to be playing more regularly than ever was likely with us.

I wish them well.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

@Davefevs and @Shtanley have watched him fairly extensively as far as I know. They're the two that have expressed opinions the strongest. @Shtanley was bang on about Bobby Reid and Lloyd Kelly well before the rest of us and @Davefevs, as we all know, clearly understands his football and backs his views up with stats.

I cringe when I see posts like this.

Of course neither have watched them extensively they are both City supporters, are you seriously saying you have been posting about Morrell on their basis? 

No offence to Dave, as he does know his stuff, but you surely noticed he uses his information to always back his opinion and clearly is close to Morrell on a personal level 

As for Shtanley, please, there were many others saying the same. But I would bet like everyone else they've got as many wrong as others too.

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26 minutes ago, phantom said:

Much less being reported 

It's probably some deal akin to an Amazon tax return where we don't give them 'x' as a clause in a Backinson clause and they don't give us 'y' on the Morrell deal.

People are always gonna speculate (as, weirdly, I have just done), and it will likely take forensic analysis of the accounts to unravel.

Reality is, we have sold a 6th choice midfielder who might have been a 1st choice if it wasn't for everyone else either coming in and doing well, being a proven Championship player or being seen as being better by those who work with them everyday.

Probably a sensible move for a 23 year old who wants to play 1st team football. Dare say Ashton will have done the club proud on the deal as at today, and it's up to Joe how far his ability takes him.

So, good luck Joe, wish you will. Possibly the right player at the wrong time, but at his age he should be looking for minutes.

So far, not one person has said they would be building a team around him (most people have never seen him play), or who they would drop to accommodate him.

 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not convinced in the current financial landscape we will have traded any future sell-on.  I would think we’d want a deal purely based on Joe, to maximise what we can get now.

No ITK, just my thinking.  We may never sell Bakinson!

There was a good piece in the Athletic re sell-ons, and the likes of Exeter earning a whole season’s revenue from Ollie Watkins.  On the flip side, Walsall were desperately hoping Deeney was gonna get sold from Watford last year....but he didn’t.

The fee was £200k according to Peter O'Rourke.... . journo

 

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1 hour ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

I cringe when I see posts like this.

Of course neither have watched them extensively they are both City supporters, are you seriously saying you have been posting about Morrell on their basis? 

I haven't really posted about Morrell. I've never pretended to have watched him extensively. I haven't really advocated his inclusion in the team, just countering the silly posts like yours and @Matthew me who have some sort of bizarre agenda about one of our academy products for some reason.

1 hour ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

No offence to Dave, as he does know his stuff, but you surely noticed he uses his information to always back his opinion and clearly is close to Morrell on a personal level 

As for Shtanley, please, there were many others saying the same. But I would bet like everyone else they've got as many wrong as others too.

Nope, Shtanley was well ahead of the curve on Kelly and backed Reid when many (myself included) wanted him sold. 

2 hours ago, Matthew me said:

My logic was simple. Too early to be raving about how wonderful he is. Reserved judgement 

On that basis I was unsure ..... It appears DH also unsure about his ability to make it, hence he's gone to Luton. Logic sound. 

Those who have banged on about him and had stats and Welsh reports of stardom etc, surely you can take a deep breath now and accept the real experts don't think he will cut it at a team like city.

End of debate

Good luck Joe ?

Not really, he's got a respectable move to another Championship side who are currently only 3 points off our position. Not a bad move at all really. Reading between the lines he's moved for first team football. We're well stocked in central midfield and probably can't guarantee him starts. Doesn't necessarily mean he's been 'overrated' - just a victim of the circumstances.

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6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Appalling decision to sell him. He should have been introduced into City's first team at least two and probably three seasons ago.

He turned down Liverpool to stay with us and we have not given him a fair chance at Bristol City!

So best wishes Joe and diolch.

Three seasons ago he struggled to get into the Margate and Sutton Utd teams, and two seasons ago he was pretty much forced to Cheltenham by LJ after failed trials at Tampa Bay and Fleetwood. 

He had a good season at Cheltenham and built on it at Lincoln but let's not pretend he should have been a first team player here for years... 

 

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3 hours ago, Leveller said:

Out of interest, where would you put him in a list of our midfielders’ ability? How many of Williams, Bakinson, Walsh, Nagy, Massengo, Brunt, Paterson, Weimann, Palmer etc is he ahead of? Certainly was in the frame for time in the team, but not an automatic pick.

Anything else is sentiment. A better chance at Luton is probably a sensible choice that he decided to make. We’re clearly not selling him to make money.

This is an interesting question....because it’s point in time.  I’d say Bakinson has made the kind of impact Morrell did in his first few games he played in 18/19.  The challenge for Bakinson is to keep up his impressive start - that won’t be easy.  Opposition managers might start targeting him.  Look how Wednesday played Izzy Brown close to him, and he had a average(ish) first half.  Long season.  We could all list them now, and 6 weeks later have a different opinion.

2 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

At least I won't have to watch the Welsh national team anymore.

Haha, I’m gonna have to watch Luton now ???

2 hours ago, Matthew me said:

My logic was simple. Too early to be raving about how wonderful he is. Reserved judgement 

On that basis I was unsure ..... It appears DH also unsure about his ability to make it, hence he's gone to Luton. Logic sound. 

Those who have banged on about him and had stats and Welsh reports of stardom etc, surely you can take a deep breath now and accept the real experts don't think he will cut it at a team like city.

End of debate

Good luck Joe ?

There is a difference between being good enough and good enough to push players out of the team....under Holden it looks like possession of the shirt is a big thing.  Doesn’t mean he’s not good enough.

1 hour ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

I cringe when I see posts like this.

Of course neither have watched them extensively they are both City supporters, are you seriously saying you have been posting about Morrell on their basis? 

No offence to Dave, as he does know his stuff, but you surely noticed he uses his information to always back his opinion and clearly is close to Morrell on a personal level 

As for Shtanley, please, there were many others saying the same. But I would bet like everyone else they've got as many wrong as others too.

Ok, here goes.

I’ve watched Joe Morrell individually a lot more times than I’ve watched many City players, because when I’ve watched Joe, I’m trying to watch him specifically, whereas when I watch City, I’m watching as a fan.

Ive watched Joe play a few 90s for Wales age group on S4C or BBC Wales.

Ive watched Joe play several 90s for Lincoln on iFollow / Sky televised.

Ive watched Joe play each start for Wales full team

Ive watched Joe play each City game apart from his debut v Wycombe.

I've watched tonnes of Wyscout (video scouting subscription) video of him.  I watch full 90s back again.

Ive watched him plenty enough to form a solid opinion of his ability.  I don’t just watch him on the ball, I watch him off the ball, I watch how he marks, I watch how he passes runners on, I watch how he positions.

Some of these games were before I started working with his dad a while back.  That’s my connection.  I don’t know Joe himself other than meeting a couple of times when he was co-commentating.

Of course i the information I use is to back up my opinion / what I view with my eyes.  Go back and read my review of his Wales v England.  Go back and read some of my responses to @Prinny who I think has good views on the game.   I’m as honest and unbiased as I can be.  I didn’t think he had a very good game at all.  I do think some of that was being played in a different position.  What harm is that?  If he was crap I’d say so.  His dad would tell you I give honest accounts of what I’ve seen.

Why do you seem so offended that someone has watched a player countless times (more than you have???) and has formed a solid opinion that they’re prepared to discuss / debate / argue on a forum (that’s what a forum is for)?  It’s because your opinion is different!  Where is your critique of him as a player other than to just dismiss mine and others views.  Back that up with valid discussion points!

I know Stanley used to watch a lot of the u23 / youth games (something I haven’t) FWIW.

And finally I’m a City fan, but also a football fan....so I’ll watch who the f#£& I want....if they have City relevance, even better.

So there you have it. ??‍♂️

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Truth is none of us know whether Joe is good enough to play for Bristol City and now we will never know. The time when we should have found out is two years ago and I’m not sure why Lee Johnson didn’t give him a go but didn’t let him go on loan.
 

Bristol City are happy for him to leave because they have lots of good quality central midfielders and Bakinson has done so well. They haven’t said Joe isn’t good enough.

Luton Town (Nathan Jones) are delighted to have him

“He ticks a lot of our boxes,” Jones began. “He’s hungry to do well and really wants to play first-team football. He had a taste at Cheltenham, did well and then had an advanced one at Lincoln where he did really, really well.

“I watched him a lot at Lincoln and then when the opportunity came available, he ticks a lot of boxes for us in terms of what we look for, so we are delighted to have him.

“It has been a long process because it has probably been ongoing for about a month or so, but we’re delighted to have him.”

Morrell will bring added depth and further quality to Town’s midfield, as the gaffer admitted he could play in a number of different roles.

“He is very versatile, he has played as a holder, in terms of that defensive ball-playing midfielder. We’ve brought him in for that role, but we believe he can play in a two as he does for Wales, he’s played as an eight for Wales, so we think he’s very versatile and massive scope for development.”


 

 

Joe is a bit disappointed because he’d have liked to have made it with his home town club but is so excited to go to a championship club where he is no longer the Academy prospect and is there because the manager wants him not because he inherited him.

Football is the most bonkers industry(honestly one day I will write a book), so full of opinions which is why we love it. OTIB is the embodiment of that which is why Ill miss it now I don’t have to lurk in the shadows to see what you’re saying about my son. Finally I just want say good luck for the future, be nice to each other (especially Fevs) and there really is only one team in Bristol.

Dave Morrell

 

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16 minutes ago, TransferForum said:

Truth is none of us know whether Joe is good enough to play for Bristol City and now we will never know. The time when we should have found out is two years ago and I’m not sure why Lee Johnson didn’t give him a go but didn’t let him go on loan.
 

Bristol City are happy for him to leave because they have lots of good quality central midfielders and Bakinson has done so well. They haven’t said Joe isn’t good enough.

Luton Town (Nathan Jones) are delighted to have him

“He ticks a lot of our boxes,” Jones began. “He’s hungry to do well and really wants to play first-team football. He had a taste at Cheltenham, did well and then had an advanced one at Lincoln where he did really, really well.

“I watched him a lot at Lincoln and then when the opportunity came available, he ticks a lot of boxes for us in terms of what we look for, so we are delighted to have him.

“It has been a long process because it has probably been ongoing for about a month or so, but we’re delighted to have him.”

Morrell will bring added depth and further quality to Town’s midfield, as the gaffer admitted he could play in a number of different roles.

“He is very versatile, he has played as a holder, in terms of that defensive ball-playing midfielder. We’ve brought him in for that role, but we believe he can play in a two as he does for Wales, he’s played as an eight for Wales, so we think he’s very versatile and massive scope for development.”


 

 

Joe is a bit disappointed because he’d have liked to have made it with his home town club but is so excited to go to a championship club where he is no longer the Academy prospect and is there because the manager wants him not because he inherited him.

Football is the most bonkers industry(honestly one day I will write a book), so full of opinions which is why we love it. OTIB is the embodiment of that which is why Ill miss it now I don’t have to lurk in the shadows to see what you’re saying about my son. Finally I just want say good luck for the future, be nice to each other (especially Fevs) and there really is only one team in Bristol.

Dave Morrell

 

Thanks for that and the best of luck to Joe.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

This is an interesting question....because it’s point in time.  I’d say Bakinson has made the kind of impact Morrell did in his first few games he played in 18/19.  The challenge for Bakinson is to keep up his impressive start - that won’t be easy.  Opposition managers might start targeting him.  Look how Wednesday played Izzy Brown close to him, and he had a average(ish) first half.  Long season.  We could all list them now, and 6 weeks later have a different opinion.

Haha, I’m gonna have to watch Luton now ???

There is a difference between being good enough and good enough to push players out of the team....under Holden it looks like possession of the shirt is a big thing.  Doesn’t mean he’s not good enough.

Ok, here goes.

I’ve watched Joe Morrell individually a lot more times than I’ve watched many City players, because when I’ve watched Joe, I’m trying to watch him specifically, whereas when I watch City, I’m watching as a fan.

Ive watched Joe play a few 90s for Wales age group on S4C or BBC Wales.

Ive watched Joe play several 90s for Lincoln on iFollow / Sky televised.

Ive watched Joe play each start for Wales full team

Ive watched Joe play each City game apart from his debut v Wycombe.

I've watched tonnes of Wyscout (video scouting subscription) video of him.  I watch full 90s back again.

Ive watched him plenty enough to form a solid opinion of his ability.  I don’t just watch him on the ball, I watch him off the ball, I watch how he marks, I watch how he passes runners on, I watch how he positions.

Some of these games were before I started working with his dad a while back.  That’s my connection.  I don’t know Joe himself other than meeting a couple of times when he was co-commentating.

Of course i the information I use is to back up my opinion / what I view with my eyes.  Go back and read my review of his Wales v England.  Go back and read some of my responses to @Prinny who I think has good views on the game.   I’m as honest and unbiased as I can be.  I didn’t think he had a very good game at all.  I do think some of that was being played in a different position.  What harm is that?  If he was crap I’d say so.  His dad would tell you I give honest accounts of what I’ve seen.

Why do you seem so offended that someone has watched a player countless times (more than you have???) and has formed a solid opinion that they’re prepared to discuss / debate / argue on a forum (that’s what a forum is for)?  It’s because your opinion is different!  Where is your critique of him as a player other than to just dismiss mine and others views.  Back that up with valid discussion points!

I know Stanley used to watch a lot of the u23 / youth games (something I haven’t) FWIW.

And finally I’m a City fan, but also a football fan....so I’ll watch who the f#£& I want....if they have City relevance, even better.

So there you have it. ??‍♂️

were you franticly looking for the slightly  miffed button?

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43 minutes ago, TransferForum said:

Truth is none of us know whether Joe is good enough to play for Bristol City and now we will never know. The time when we should have found out is two years ago and I’m not sure why Lee Johnson didn’t give him a go but didn’t let him go on loan.

Imo, Joe is good enough for Bristol City and it's a damn shame we won't get to see it. Genuinely gutted. Thanks for posting and all the very best to you and Joe (except when we play Luton ?).  

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I haven't really posted about Morrell. I've never pretended to have watched him extensively. I haven't really advocated his inclusion in the team, just countering the silly posts like yours and @Matthew me who have some sort of bizarre agenda about one of our academy products for some reason.

Nope, Shtanley was well ahead of the curve on Kelly and backed Reid when many (myself included) wanted him sold. 

Not really, he's got a respectable move to another Championship side who are currently only 3 points off our position. Not a bad move at all really. Reading between the lines he's moved for first team football. We're well stocked in central midfield and probably can't guarantee him starts. Doesn't necessarily mean he's been 'overrated' - just a victim of the circumstances.

Dear Mr Fogg

Just because someone has a different view, it doesn't automatically make it silly

If anything, my caution was validated. He's been bombed out because the true experts don't rate him

If he was that good, he'd have earned the shirt. All the stats and rave reviews counted for nothing in the end. He's 24 and couldn't get in out team. That's it. Nothing more 

Let's just agree to disagree. Wish Joe all the best and move on. 

Hopefully the fee we got covered the cost of his development through the academy and helps pave the way for a gem to come through the ranks.

 

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5 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Dear Mr Fogg

Just because someone has a different view, it doesn't automatically make it silly

If anything, my caution was validated. He's been bombed out because the true experts don't rate him

If he was that good, he'd have earned the shirt. All the stats and rave reviews counted for nothing in the end. He's 24 and couldn't get in out team. That's it. Nothing more 

Let's just agree to disagree. Wish Joe all the best and move on. 

Hopefully the fee we got covered the cost of his development through the academy and helps pave the way for a gem to come through the ranks.

 

The truth though is he wasn’t as you call it bombed out. It’s more nuanced than that as I thought I’d explained. You don’t earn the shirt or not. Dean Holden didn’t call Joe into his office to say you’re out. Joe and him had a sensible discussion about would Joe play x or y percent of games. On that basis Joe could say I’ve got options so let me think about it and the club were able to assess whether Joe left a gap that was acceptable. I do get the impression that you need to not think that FIFA on the PlayStation is the reality.

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32 minutes ago, TransferForum said:

The truth though is he wasn’t as you call it bombed out. It’s more nuanced than that as I thought I’d explained. You don’t earn the shirt or not. Dean Holden didn’t call Joe into his office to say you’re out. Joe and him had a sensible discussion about would Joe play x or y percent of games. On that basis Joe could say I’ve got options so let me think about it and the club were able to assess whether Joe left a gap that was acceptable. I do get the impression that you need to not think that FIFA on the PlayStation is the reality.

"Joe, you're not in our plans and won't get enough game time " aka bombed out 

Call it what you want. He wasn't wanted / required. And certainly wasn't regarded as highly as MANY posters on here claimed.

Surely it's not a big issue. He's moved on and best of luck to the lad. Gave us 11 years of service and development. Hope he does well in the future. It's all part of running an academy

Some make it, some don't. Some move onto new clubs. I've no issue with the lad. He clearly enjoyed his time with us.

Good move for all parties... Onwards and upwards

 

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This is exactly what happens when the “clubs in the bag”/“kid in a sweet shop” approach adopted by the previous Manager is allowed to happen by an incompetent regime at Board level who do not know enough about football to say “No Lee, you can’t have another bloody midfield player, develop what we’ve got”.

As a result we have to let a decent midfield player leave that we have developed over many years but cannot fit into the team because the previous Manager has filled the squad with rubbish loans, added players of lesser ability etc. whilst the current Manager reaps the “rewards” of this policy because he, quite rightly, has to consider current form and simply cannot guarantee the kid a place right now.
 

I’m not saying Morrell is the next Iniesta and being brutal you cannot even claim he’s proven at our level just yet but the fact is we never got to see him at all whilst absolute trash who never wanted to be here in the first place was loaned in by LJ.

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Perhaps the bigger question than ‘ should Joe Morrell have been sold ? ‘ is

‘ how in the name of Hades did we end up with so many midfielders ? ‘ 

It appears to be a colossal cock up where we’re having a ‘fire sale’ of talented lads , through no fault of effort on their behalf.

For once, we are not in a great bargaining position either because other clubs will know that we have an army of well paid midfielders to offload. 
 

 

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7 hours ago, Matthew me said:

He's been bombed out because the true experts don't rate him

I think you’re ignoring the circumstances surrounding the finances of the club at the moment.

We are top heavy in the midfield department and need to trim the squad. 
 

I am persuaded that the club would have preferred to have had firm offers for other players than Joe but didn’t /haven’t so they just had to roll with it. 
 

It doesn’t mean that the ‘ experts’ didn’t rate him,that is too simple and naïve to have any credence.

 

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7 hours ago, Matthew me said:

Dear Mr Fogg

Just because someone has a different view, it doesn't automatically make it silly

If anything, my caution was validated. He's been bombed out because the true experts don't rate him

If he was that good, he'd have earned the shirt. All the stats and rave reviews counted for nothing in the end. He's 24 and couldn't get in out team. That's it. Nothing more 

Let's just agree to disagree. Wish Joe all the best and move on. 

Hopefully the fee we got covered the cost of his development through the academy and helps pave the way for a gem to come through the ranks.

 

Dear Mr. me

There’s nothing to ‘agree to disagree’ over because I’m fairly apathetic about Morrell due to not really knowing much about him. I think I watched him once in the flesh whilst he was here.

If I and many others were advocating his immediate inclusion in the first 11 then you might have a point - but people weren’t.

There’s a few posters on here who’ve convinced themselves of the existence of some ‘Joe Morrell Ultras’ who’ve been fervently campaigning for his inclusion in the first 11. They’ve weirdly convinced themselves that posters will be distraught that he’s moved. I haven’t seen that at all.

The issue is that you’re making a very nuanced point, as @TransferForum said above, into a simplistic ‘he must’ve been crap because we sold him’. It’s the sort of vapid analysis you usually see on the ‘CITY TILL I DIE’ Facebook page rather than Otib.

I took issue with your opinion on this player because it was full of inconsistencies and hypocrisies. You would criticise others for being too positive about Morrell but then advocate Walsh’s inclusion in the team. You say a move to Luton or L1 is about right but admit you haven’t watched him play.

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