Joe Morrell - Perm to Luton Confirmed (Merged)

[mozo]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Totally sensible questions DS.

My gut feel says we won’t play the current midfield three blend all season and there will be opportunity for different permutations.

I could quite easily see Morrell playing in many of those permutations.  It’s up to each and everyone of them to go out there and prove they’re better than someone else in that role.

There are plenty of posters who thought Williams / Walsh / Morrell would be the main CM3 this season.  We haven’t seen any of them yet.

All about getting the shirt and keeping it (within the constraints of rotation and rest.

Put it this way if we wanted to change the CM3 each game over the hectic Sat-Tues, Sat-Tues periods, we are gonna be better placed than many clubs with the quality / quantity we have.  I don’t see any of them being weak options.

A lot to look forward to.

 

 

Mr F, while I agree with your logic, in practice I don't see a scenario where Morrell starts 30 games.

Say Bakinson can't start; Brunt or Williams are the list likely options (two player that won't have been brought in to watch from the sidelines btw).

Weimann and Pato are very unlikely to be dropped in the short terms, but if one of those '8' roles become available Williams, a Holden recruit, is most likely. 

If an 8 place is still open, Walsh and Morrell have to fight for that place, meaning one of them spends most of the season twiddling their thumbs.

I'm sure Morrell would be willing to wait for an injury as the next in line. But to wait his turn and have 1 or maybe 2 still to compete with for that golden opportunity means that whilst he might get the nod, play exceptionally and retain his place, there's every chance he sits and watches, week in week out.

In terms of cup games, he's missed one and now only the FA Cup. The 3rd and 4th rounds are in January. 

He'll be 24 by then and as it stands right now has only played one club match since February 11th.

We'd be asking him to take a leap of faith at a club where he arguably hasn't had a fair chance in the first team.

If I were him I'd find a club that really needed a box to box midfielder and get on with my career.

[LondonBristolian]

24 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Umm, this four page thread?

This thread is almost all fans speculating that he might be going but there's nothing actually linking him with a move to another club.

I think there's only been one tweet three weeks ago from an account of uncertain credibility suggesting Watford might want to sign him. Beyond that, I don't think there is anything at all to suggest any kind of move is in the works, at least at the moment.

Certainly I find it far more plausible Nagy and Massengo will go. 

[DT The Optimist]

On the interview with Twentystone  & DH  radio Brizxle , I am sure DH mentioned both MORRELL & WALSH were Very  much in his plans,  and I am still optimistic WILLIAMS, BAKINSON & BRUNT will have a big say and plenty of opportunities of all these.  
Like other posters I am sure HNM & AN will be on there way.  
Who knows what Mark Aston & the LANSDOWN view of it all is as HNM was a big wedge no matter what you think of it all, 2 million, 4 million, whatever. There has to be a recoup here of funds.

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, Prinny said:

Doesn't Brunt fulfil another role though? when a team sits in and lets us have the ball, so often we've lacked the quality to break them down. From what we've seen this season already, his passes/set pieces still look really good. Walsh/Morrell have to compete with him for that role. Up to them to win it. That's where he can get minutes as well as the current seeing out the game role he has.

Quite possibly, we will have to wait and see.  Throughout his career his open play creativity has mainly come from playing wide.  Of course he is dangerous / very dangerous from set plays.  Worth watching Williams corners for Wigan last season, very nasty to defend.  That’s another string to his bow.

They're all competing....great isn’t it!

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

I think that point is that some on here claim to have seen Morrell play more than others and on that basis rate him highly.

The only times I’ve see JM play is during his international appearances. I haven’t been interested enough to travel to Sincil Bank to watch him but if others have then we’ll done to them. However they should note that tearing up L1 or L2 isn’t quite the same as doing it in the Championship.

The point to remember is that Deano has an abundance of midfielders that are as good, if not better than JM so the call to include him seems to me like wishful thinking on their part. 

The only way that JM would get into the first team is if he can really impress upon the the coaches at Failand that he’s the best of the lot............

 

And the same people fawn over Walsh.

1 hour ago, Matthew me said:

I'm not sure your post adds anything to what I've said previously.

It's sit and wait. See how good he can be .

Don't over hype a young lad that's been playing mid table league one and hope for the best 

 

A Lincoln side, freshly promoted from Lg2, with a tiny budget compared to the likes of Coventry and Rotherham, etc, managing to compete, and for a young midfielder to earn accolades across the whole division, get called up for Wales and then play (and play well) in important Euro Qualifiers.

Harder to stand out in a mid-table side than a promotion side where you’re alongside vastly superior players.

Don’t under-value his contribution....especially when you admit to barely seeing him play.

35 minutes ago, mozo said:

Mr F, while I agree with your logic, in practice I don't see a scenario where Morrell starts 30 games.

Say Bakinson can't start; Brunt or Williams are the list likely options (two player that won't have been brought in to watch from the sidelines btw).

Weimann and Pato are very unlikely to be dropped in the short terms, but if one of those '8' roles become available Williams, a Holden recruit, is most likely. 

If an 8 place is still open, Walsh and Morrell have to fight for that place, meaning one of them spends most of the season twiddling their thumbs.

I'm sure Morrell would be willing to wait for an injury as the next in line. But to wait his turn and have 1 or maybe 2 still to compete with for that golden opportunity means that whilst he might get the nod, play exceptionally and retain his place, there's every chance he sits and watches, week in week out.

In terms of cup games, he's missed one and now only the FA Cup. The 3rd and 4th rounds are in January. 

He'll be 24 by then and as it stands right now has only played one club match since February 11th.

We'd be asking him to take a leap of faith at a club where he arguably hasn't had a fair chance in the first team.

If I were him I'd find a club that really needed a box to box midfielder and get on with my career.

I said at the start of the season that he isn’t gonna come in and play 35+, not with the signings made.  A proper breakthrough for me is “doing a Taylor Moore” and getting 15-20 appearances under his belt, and showing he’s good enough for this level - like TM did last season.  Same for Walsh too.  Bakinson will have peaks and troughs.  Opponents suss you out at this level.  We saw some of that 1st half on Saturday.  He’s made a great start.

Youre right, at 24 it’s then decision time.  He’s either well regarded and bigger things expected or he remains fringe.  His head is screwed on, he will know if it’s time to move on or not.  He had interest last season from within the Championship.  Wales / Euros is a good shop window for him if he doesn’t breakthrough here.

Doesn’t mean he will play here....it’s competitive.  Doesn’t mean he won’t make it as this level either, circumstances sometimes don’t work for you.  But I think he’s perfectly capable to play at this level.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Matthew me said:

I'm not sure your post adds anything to what I've said previously.

It's sit and wait. See how good he can be .

Don't over hype a young lad that's been playing mid table league one and hope for the best 

 

But why are you talking about him with such vigour when you could feasibly say similar about Walsh? 

I doubt that many people watched Coventry that often, or is he given a pass purely because Coventry are of a higher level? By your logic they shouldn’t be passing judgement on him either!

[mozo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Quite possibly, we will have to wait and see.  Throughout his career his open play creativity has mainly come from playing wide.  Of course he is dangerous / very dangerous from set plays.  Worth watching Williams corners for Wigan last season, very nasty to defend.  That’s another string to his bow.

They're all competing....great isn’t it!

And the same people fawn over Walsh.

A Lincoln side, freshly promoted from Lg2, with a tiny budget compared to the likes of Coventry and Rotherham, etc, managing to compete, and for a young midfielder to earn accolades across the whole division, get called up for Wales and then play (and play well) in important Euro Qualifiers.

Harder to stand out in a mid-table side than a promotion side where you’re alongside vastly superior players.

Don’t under-value his contribution....especially when you admit to barely seeing him play.

I said at the start of the season that he isn’t gonna come in and play 35+, not with the signings made.  A proper breakthrough for me is “doing a Taylor Moore” and getting 15-20 appearances under his belt, and showing he’s good enough for this level - like TM did last season.  Same for Walsh too.  Bakinson will have peaks and troughs.  Opponents suss you out at this level.  We saw some of that 1st half on Saturday.  He’s made a great start.

Youre right, at 24 it’s then decision time.  He’s either well regarded and bigger things expected or he remains fringe.  His head is screwed on, he will know if it’s time to move on or not.  He had interest last season from within the Championship.  Wales / Euros is a good shop window for him if he doesn’t breakthrough here.

Doesn’t mean he will play here....it’s competitive.  Doesn’t mean he won’t make it as this level either, circumstances sometimes don’t work for you.  But I think he’s perfectly capable to play at this level.

How's about we come to a compromise...

Morrell stays until the mid-season transfer window. If he hasn't had his fair share of action by then, he pushes for a move.

Worth reiterating that the competition for places in midfield isn't normal. For us to have five or six central midfielders is one thing, but to then sign two more, and also move a striker and a wide forward into those roles and stick with them...it's nuts and must be unsettling for the players on the fringes.

By the way, when I did my initial rant, I had assumed Nagy was out of the picture and that Massengo is likely too. If not, poor Joe is trying to stand out like Where's Wally.

[tin]

36 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

On the interview with Twentystone  & DH  radio Brizxle , I am sure DH mentioned both MORRELL & WALSH were Very  much in his plans,  and I am still optimistic WILLIAMS, BAKINSON & BRUNT will have a big say and plenty of opportunities of all these.  
Like other posters I am sure HNM & AN will be on there way.  
Who knows what Mark Aston & the LANSDOWN view of it all is as HNM was a big wedge no matter what you think of it all, 2 million, 4 million, whatever. There has to be a recoup here of funds.

That's how I see it, too.

Holden has his set out his stall with his formation, realistically we need seven of the following:

• Holding midfield: Bakinson, Morrell, Brunt.
• Box-to-box: Williams, Walsh, Massengo, Nagy. 
• Harriers: Weimann, Pato. 
• Playmakers: Pato, Brunt, Walsh, Palmer. 

I think Nagy, Massengo and Palmer are all more vulnerable than Massengo, although Walsh's situation might change. I still don't understand the signing of Brunt. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Umm, this four page thread?

That’s not rumours , it’s a fan speculating. I’ve not seen any rumours , have you ? 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

11 minutes ago, tin said:

That's how I see it, too.

Holden has his set out his stall with his formation, realistically we need seven of the following:

• Holding midfield: Bakinson, Morrell, Brunt.
• Box-to-box: Williams, Walsh, Massengo, Nagy. 
• Harriers: Weimann, Pato. 
• Playmakers: Pato, Brunt, Walsh, Palmer. 

I think Nagy, Massengo and Palmer are all more vulnerable than Massengo, although Walsh's situation might change. I still don't understand the signing of Brunt. 

Think that COD may be added to the harriers section

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, mozo said:

How's about we come to a compromise...

Morrell stays until the mid-season transfer window. If he hasn't had his fair share of action by then, he pushes for a move.

Worth reiterating that the competition for places in midfield isn't normal. For us to have five or six central midfielders is one thing, but to then sign two more, and also move a striker and a wide forward into those roles and stick with them...it's nuts and must be unsettling for the players on the fringes.

By the way, when I did my initial rant, I had assumed Nagy was out of the picture and that Massengo is likely too. If not, poor Joe is trying to stand out like Where's Wally.

I don’t think a compromise is necessary, all what you say is common-sense.
 

I’m more arguing the point (with Matthew) about his ability than any right to a place in the team.

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think a compromise is necessary, all what you say is common-sense.
 

I’m more arguing the point (with Matthew) about his ability than any right to a place in the team.

Oh yeah and I agree with you. He's an exciting player and in an ideal world he'd be in our first team. 

As someone else noted, the rumour mill has been quiet on him and I also haven't heard much on Walsh's contract, so still poised for something (or nothing) to happen.

[Matthew me]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think a compromise is necessary, all what you say is common-sense.
 

I’m more arguing the point (with Matthew) about his ability than any right to a place in the team.

Dave, it's hardly an argument. It's an opinion from me that states I'd like to see the lad play in the championship before making any statement that he's "good"

Ive seen Walsh play, he came from a premier league team, I feel more comfortable saying he's a good player as he was part of a team that got promoted and was player of the year. He also forced his way into our first team and came with fantastic reviews from Everton fans.

With morrell , I've not seen hardly anything. That's not to say he's not the next big thing. But I don't know how anyone can conclusively state he's good or otherwise. A few games for Wales and a season at Lincoln is a good start. 

He's got real potential and he's young. But let's wait and see. ( And hope ) he's another super star from BS3

[LondonBristolian]

Out of boredom, this is my ranking of midfield options and how likely I think they are to move.

I reckon we will lose 2 at most and don't reckon Morrell is going anywhere.

1.Nagy

2. Massengo

3. Walsh

4. O'Dowda

5. Morrell

6. Bakinson

7. Paterson

8. Weimann

9. Brunt

10. Williams

[mozo]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Out of boredom, this is my ranking of midfield options and how likely I think they are to move.

I reckon we will lose 2 at most and don't reckon Morrell is going anywhere.

1.Nagy

2. Massengo

3. Walsh

4. O'Dowda

5. Morrell

6. Bakinson

7. Paterson

8. Weimann

9. Brunt

10. Williams

Well Holden has confirmed in pressers that we will trim the midfield (not Massengo's hair!) and he's also stated that Walsh will be involved this season.

So....that leaves 1, 2, 4 and 5.

[Phileas Fogg]

34 minutes ago, Matthew me said:

Dave, it's hardly an argument. It's an opinion from me that states I'd like to see the lad play in the championship before making any statement that he's "good"

Ive seen Walsh play, he came from a premier league team, I feel more comfortable saying he's a good player as he was part of a team that got promoted and was player of the year. He also forced his way into our first team and came with fantastic reviews from Everton fans.

The general consensus re: Walsh seems to be that he showed flashes of ability (which fans want to see much more of) but also weaknesses in his game that needed work. Perhaps now with a bit more experience and a new system we might see the best of him.

Walsh has only played for us 19 times in two seasons and only played a full 90 3x for us (2x in the league). He's also only had a run of consecutive games (5) between October and November 2018. It's not a huge sample size to base much on. Really you need to see him in around 10 games - ideally consecutively - to get a good idea. 

Him coming from a Prem team doesn't count for that much really - for every Abraham and Caulker, we've had plenty of average/poor signings (permanent and loans) from the Prem. It indicates that the player probably has ability, but isn't evidence enough on its own by a long chalk. 

I'm not saying you're wrong about Walsh by the way, I like him too and want to see more of him. I just question why you appear to have double standards and rationale when comparing Walsh and Morrell. 

Quote

With morrell , I've not seen hardly anything. That's not to say he's not the next big thing. But I don't know how anyone can conclusively state he's good or otherwise. A few games for Wales and a season at Lincoln is a good start. 

Of course you can say that if you've watched him play. Dave has said that he has, and Dave is also a user of Wyscout software so he can analyse players in greater detail. Like you, I haven't seen a great deal of Morrell. Not enough to conclusively say he is ready for this level, but I trust the opinion of others that have.

It's not just anecdotal stuff on here either, he's a full international, gets rave reviews from Tinnion and Lincoln fans. 

I'm not too sure what your overall point is here really. I don't see anyone saying Morrell is going to walk straight into the first team - rather, he could be good enough to play a part this season and possibly force his way into the 11. You clearly haven't really researched your subject matter either as evidenced by not knowing about the awards that Morrell won at Lincoln which takes away from the strength of your argument somewhat. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well Holden has confirmed in pressers that we will trim the midfield (not Massengo's hair!) and he's also stated that Walsh will be involved this season.

So....that leaves 1, 2, 4 and 5.

He did....my view is that it will depend on Walsh signing a new deal though.  I suspect the pre-quad injury view of Walsh, and equally Walsh’s view of his position could have changed. Gonna be interesting to see if he signs or not.

[LondonBristolian]

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well Holden has confirmed in pressers that we will trim the midfield (not Massengo's hair!) and he's also stated that Walsh will be involved this season.

So....that leaves 1, 2, 4 and 5.

I've suddenly remembered Palmer exists too! I'd put him at 2 on the list ahead of everyone but Nagy. 

[Tangle Foot]

1 hour ago, tin said:

That's how I see it, too.

Holden has his set out his stall with his formation, realistically we need seven of the following:

• Holding midfield: Bakinson, Morrell, Brunt.
• Box-to-box: Williams, Walsh, Massengo, Nagy. 
• Harriers: Weimann, Pato. 
• Playmakers: Pato, Brunt, Walsh, Palmer. 

I think Nagy, Massengo and Palmer are all more vulnerable than Massengo, although Walsh's situation might change. I still don't understand the signing of Brunt. 

I’m fairly sure Brunt was signed for his experience and versatility (remember he can slot in at LB/LWB too). Like when we signed Rowe.

I’d also have Williams in the ‘holding’ category and Morrell in the ‘box-to-box’ category. I think Nagy & Massengo could even fit into the ‘harriers’ category, but am not sure Brunt is a ‘playmaker’, certainly not these days.

COYR.

[Matthew me]

18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The general consensus re: Walsh seems to be that he showed flashes of ability (which fans want to see much more of) but also weaknesses in his game that needed work. Perhaps now with a bit more experience and a new system we might see the best of him.

Walsh has only played for us 19 times in two seasons and only played a full 90 3x for us (2x in the league). He's also only had a run of consecutive games (5) between October and November 2018. It's not a huge sample size to base much on. Really you need to see him in around 10 games - ideally consecutively - to get a good idea. 

Him coming from a Prem team doesn't count for that much really - for every Abraham and Caulker, we've had plenty of average/poor signings (permanent and loans) from the Prem. It indicates that the player probably has ability, but isn't evidence enough on its own by a long chalk. 

I'm not saying you're wrong about Walsh by the way, I like him too and want to see more of him. I just question why you appear to have double standards and rationale when comparing Walsh and Morrell. 

Of course you can say that if you've watched him play. Dave has said that he has, and Dave is also a user of Wyscout software so he can analyse players in greater detail. Like you, I haven't seen a great deal of Morrell. Not enough to conclusively say he is ready for this level, but I trust the opinion of others that have.

It's not just anecdotal stuff on here either, he's a full international, gets rave reviews from Tinnion and Lincoln fans. 

I'm not too sure what your overall point is here really. I don't see anyone saying Morrell is going to walk straight into the first team - rather, he could be good enough to play a part this season and possibly force his way into the 11. You clearly haven't really researched your subject matter either as evidenced by not knowing about the awards that Morrell won at Lincoln which takes away from the strength of your argument somewhat. 

You're right I didn't have time to do all the research as others do. I don't think any of us are getting paid to post

It's an opinion. I am allowed them

I'll stand by my view. You stand by yours. No harm done .  Let's hope morrell and Walsh both make an impact at some point this season. Wherever they end up

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Matthew me said:

You're right I didn't have time to do all the research as others do. I don't think any of us are getting paid to post

It's an opinion. I am allowed them

I'll stand by my view. You stand by yours. No harm done .  Let's hope morrell and Walsh both make an impact at some point this season. Wherever they end up

The irony is that we actually have the same view, we both like the idea of Morrell making a breakthrough but neither of has personally watched enough of him to say conclusively whether he's good enough!

[mozo]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He did....my view is that it will depend on Walsh signing a new deal though.  I suspect the pre-quad injury view of Walsh, and equally Walsh’s view of his position could have changed. Gonna be interesting to see if he signs or not.

Yeah good shout, Holden's statement might have been intended to incentivise the signing of the contract.

[Matthew me]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The irony is that we actually have the same view, we both like the idea of Morrell making a breakthrough but neither of has personally watched enough of him to say conclusively whether he's good enough!

Youve nailed it!!!! That's exactly my point 

Genuinely hope he's our next star

[Robbored]

54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Out of boredom, this is my ranking of midfield options and how likely I think they are to move.

I reckon we will lose 2 at most and don't reckon Morrell is going anywhere.

1.Nagy

2. Massengo

3. Walsh

4. O'Dowda

5. Morrell

6. Bakinson

7. Paterson

8. Weimann

9. Brunt

10. Williams

Numbers 1, 2, and 4 will be out of AG either sold or on loan somewhere. Btw.......you’re missing Palmer who will almost certainly be off..........

[DT The Optimist]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The irony is that we actually have the same view, we both like the idea of Morrell making a breakthrough but neither of has personally watched enough of him to say conclusively whether he's good enough!

I do not think any forum member (poster) call us what you will, will have much idea about MORRELL & WALSH now,  I think we base our opinions on what the pro’s have said about them. What the fans say about them, and draw our conclusions accordingly.  LJ before his demise said LW had a brilliant season at Coventry and the loan did what was expected, get him loads games.  He expected him to be a BCFC player this season doing the same.  And  LW had ripped up league One and was player of the season ? and of course his own team mates called him Messi.

Likewise DH stated that both these players are very much in his thoughts.  With the arrival and form  of BAKINSON  and the signing of WILLIAMS perhaps there might be movement on that. 

Pre season I was really quite excited about the prospect of MORRELL & WALSH in our midfield, it is so frustrating that both absent so earlier with longer term injuries.   Yes, I am confident both will break through this season. 

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Numbers 1, 2, and 4 will be out of AG either sold or on loan somewhere. Btw.......you’re missing Palmer who will almost certainly be off..........

You and your unfounded transfer speculation Robbored 

I'll only believe it... 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Numbers 1, 2, and 4 will be out of AG either sold or on loan somewhere. Btw.......you’re missing Palmer who will almost certainly be off..........

Can't see anybody that will be interested in KP imho.

[steviestevieneville]

32 minutes ago, Tangle Foot said:

I’m fairly sure Brunt was signed for his experience and versatility (remember he can slot in at LB/LWB too). Like when we signed Rowe.

I’d also have Williams in the ‘holding’ category and Morrell in the ‘box-to-box’ category. I think Nagy & Massengo could even fit into the ‘harriers’ category, but am not sure Brunt is a ‘playmaker’, certainly not these days.

COYR.

Williams is very much box to box 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Can't see anybody that will be interested in KP imho.

He’d shine in the SPL or the equivalent L1.

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Williams is very much box to box 

Definitely, but... I think he is also going to be back up for the holding role if needed due to the physicality he offers.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He’d shine in the SPL or the equivalent L1.

Neither of which would pay his wages imo