Wenger's ideas for new rules

[Lrrr]

1. Offside - if any part of the player is in line with the defender then its onside - only problem here is you basically flip the issue so you'll get VAR looking for the fraction in line instead
2. Corners, any corner that swings out of play and comes back in still counts rather than goal kick - would allow much tighter outswinging corners if the ball could go out of play and come back in
3. Throw ins in your own half, the player could take a 'kick in' as opposed to a throw in - Don't like this personally, tactically playing into the corner to attempt to win the ball back high can be a legit tactic, just allows teams to get out much easier.

To take a rule from another sport, I wouldn't mind the idea of the 'self take' in hockey, you can take the equivalent of a foul or throw in playing it to your self, to carry on.

[Unan]

1: As you say, it'll be the exact same problem but rather than the front of the player they'll be looking at the back.

2: I just don't think is necessary.

3: Doesn't make sense to me, you could switch the play or thread a through ball in relatively easily if the balls near the half way line.

All my own humble opinion and nothing else of course.

[Prinny]

10 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

1. Offside - if any part of the player is in line with the defender then its onside - only problem here is you basically flip the issue so you'll get VAR looking for the fraction in line instead
2. Corners, any corner that swings out of play and comes back in still counts rather than goal kick - would allow much tighter outswinging corners if the ball could go out of play and come back in
3. Throw ins in your own half, the player could take a 'kick in' as opposed to a throw in - Don't like this personally, tactically playing into the corner to attempt to win the ball back high can be a legit tactic, just allows teams to get out much easier.

To take a rule from another sport, I wouldn't mind the idea of the 'self take' in hockey, you can take the equivalent of a foul or throw in playing it to your self, to carry on.

1. As you say it reverses the issue. It doesn't fix anything.

2. Is that a problem? What's the issue that needs fixing here? I've genuinely never heard a point or discussion on this. Corners are fine.

3. If you can't be offside from a throw in then you literally pump the ball at the opposition goal line and try to win corners. I'm sure Keith Curle and Tony Pulis are excited by this, but I don't want to watch it.

I think the rugby style marching forwards if there's dissent was fun. So I'd have that back, and sin bins as an intermediary in between yellow and red for say persistent fouling.

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Prinny said:

1. As you say it reverses the issue. It doesn't fix anything.

2. Is that a problem? What's the issue that needs fixing here? I've genuinely never heard a point or discussion on this. Corners are fine.

3. If you can't be offside from a throw in then you literally pump the ball at the opposition goal line and try to win corners. I'm sure Keith Curle and Tony Pulis are excited by this, but I don't want to watch it.

On the 2nd one I think it just widens the tactical options for corners, as said if you can play an outswinger thats allowed to go out of play first you could try tempting the keeper out more and get deceived by the flight of the ball etc. Also means every corner is in play unless it gets up out of play.

4 minutes ago, Banned User said:

Doesn't make sense to me, you could switch the play or thread a through ball in relatively easily if the balls near the half way line.

Would make defending those interesting, how high a line are you brave enough to play? If you drop too deep could allow space to play

[Davefevs]

Re 3.  Years ago in the Conference they went with no offside from free-kicks for a season. I can’t remember which team out of Notts Co or Lincoln used Mick Waitt (a beanpole striker) because he played for both....but basically every set piece he stood offside in front of the keeper and they just pumped balls towards him....and got promoted back to the FL.

[The Fat Controller]

New rules are unnecessary. What is needed is the consistent enforcement of the current rules, particularly on: dissent, obstruction (especially near the goal-line), timewasting and kicking/picking up/moving the ball away after a free kick is awarded. 

[IAmNick]

The only new rule I'd like to see introduced, or at least trialed is some kind of sin bin (5-10m) for those kind of minor offenses.

I think they're being trialed in some grassroots football at the moment?

[Taz]

Scrap VAR - that would improve a lot of things!! 

Wouldn't be so bad, but they still can't get any consistency even with using it. Absolutely pointless.

[Robin-hugh-blind]

Please stop trying to mess with the game of football. Have we not suffered enough. VAR. Goal line tech. Leave it alone. For the sake of the game. We're EFL not NFL!

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

The only new rule I'd like to see introduced, or at least trialed is some kind of sin bin (5-10m) for those kind of minor offenses.

I think they're being trialed in some grassroots football at the moment?

I’m not sure it’s a trial, as this is the third season sin bins have been in force in the lower leagues. 

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I’m not sure it’s a trial, as this is the third season sin bins have been in force in the lower leagues. 

So they're working? Third season in use would suggest they've largely been successful? I've always thought they're a natural addition to the game.

Just look at the Martial/Lamela thing from the weekend. Sin bin both and you get 11 v 11 again nice and quickly. 

Edit: to answer my own question https://www.thefa.com/get-involved/respect/sin-bins#collapse-c656b7d0-94ac-450a-bc64-1ff7d1ba3f30

Broadly yes successful "During this period [the period sin bins were used] we saw a 38% reduction in dissent across the selected leagues. It also showed a reduction on dismissals for receiving a second caution in a game and abusive language. A survey carried out to obtain feedback from around 1,400 users showed that:

• 72% of players wanted to continue with sin bins;
• 77% of managers/Coaches wanted to continue with sin bins;
• 84% of referees wanted to continue with sin bins.

The pilot has shown that participant behaviour / match day experience has improved. It also showed players self-policing the game to prevent their colleagues from getting into trouble."

[Portland Bill]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So they're working? Third season in use would suggest they've largely been successful? I've always thought they're a natural addition to the game.

Just look at the Martial/Lamela thing from the weekend. Sin bin both and you get 11 v 11 again nice and quickly. 

Edit: to answer my own question https://www.thefa.com/get-involved/respect/sin-bins#collapse-c656b7d0-94ac-450a-bc64-1ff7d1ba3f30

Broadly yes successful "During this period [the period sin bins were used] we saw a 38% reduction in dissent across the selected leagues. It also showed a reduction on dismissals for receiving a second caution in a game and abusive language. A survey carried out to obtain feedback from around 1,400 users showed that:

• 72% of players wanted to continue with sin bins;
• 77% of managers/Coaches wanted to continue with sin bins;
• 84% of referees wanted to continue with sin bins.

The pilot has shown that participant behaviour / match day experience has improved. It also showed players self-policing the game to prevent their colleagues from getting into trouble."

Yes they seem to be working, but I’m not too sure they are being used massively. It’s ok when there are three officials like the Western league, but for local leagues it’s just another timekeeping issue a single official has to deal with. 

 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Please stop trying to mess with the game of football. Have we not suffered enough. VAR. Goal line tech. Leave it alone. For the sake of the game. We're EFL not NFL!

I think goal line tech is good.  Yeah, Villa got away with one for a technical hitch in the SMS hitting the ref’s watch, but the tech of the ball crossing the line worked.  For me that’s a black and shite decision, al the rest of new ideas can be subjective.  Let the ref be accountable, train them better.

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Yes they seem to be working, but I’m not too sure they are being used massively. It’s ok when there are three officials like the Western league, but for local leagues it’s just another timekeeping issue a single official has to deal with. 

 

Yeh, there's not much online about the raw number, but this from the FA link suggests it's not hugely popular "Our research of over 135,000 matches showed that less than 1% of matches have more than three cautions for dissent. The chances of those occurring in the same 10-minute period are remote." Fewer than 1,350 matches having >3 dissent cautions in total, and that being a notable stat, suggests that it isn't proving incredibly popular. That said, as it is limited to 'dissent' which is a subjective test, it is easy for referees to ignore or not use, as you point out.

Honestly, I'd implement it just for the possibility of having an outfield player in goal, whilst a goalie played outfield;

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

a black and shite decision

shit referee

[Robin-hugh-blind]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think goal line tech is good.  Yeah, Villa got away with one for a technical hitch in the SMS hitting the ref’s watch, but the tech of the ball crossing the line worked.  For me that’s a black and shite decision, al the rest of new ideas can be subjective.  Let the ref be accountable, train them better.

I don't know, I grew up with a game without any of it. The pantomime ref, the theatre. It was all apart of the atmosphere. Feels like every season it edges away from the game we all fell in love with. There are so many examples.

[Portland Bill]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh, there's not much online about the raw number, but this from the FA link suggests it's not hugely popular "Our research of over 135,000 matches showed that less than 1% of matches have more than three cautions for dissent. The chances of those occurring in the same 10-minute period are remote." Fewer than 1,350 matches having >3 dissent cautions in total, and that being a notable stat, suggests that it isn't proving incredibly popular. That said, as it is limited to 'dissent' which is a subjective test, it is easy fro referees to ignore or not use, as you point out.

From my experience it’s quite rare for referees to use the sin bin. I watch approximately 100 non league and local football games a season, I’ve seen it used less than ten times.

[Portland Bill]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think goal line tech is good.  Yeah, Villa got away with one for a technical hitch in the SMS hitting the ref’s watch, but the tech of the ball crossing the line worked.  For me that’s a black and shite decision, al the rest of new ideas can be subjective.  Let the ref be accountable, train them better.

Referees are certainly accountable, and more than people realise. Regarding training, they do have weekend seminars etc when possible, but you have to remember that 99% of referees also have a full time job during the week. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Referees are certainly accountable, and more than people realise. Regarding training, they do have weekend seminars etc when possible, but you have to remember that 99% of referees also have a full time job during the week. 

Yeah appreciate only the “top level” ref’s are full-time pros....but there has to be more integration with clubs.  It’s fine them coming together as a body of refs, but I want them to find a way to get into clubs and learn from each other.  Its not a one way learning exercise.  For example attach a Prem ref to a Champ club to avoid bias, and voice versa.

[richwwtk]

9 hours ago, sinenomine said:

timewasting and kicking/picking up/moving the ball away after a free kick is awarded.

The best idea I've seen recently for a new rule is to make it against the rules for the ball to be touched by a player from the team that has given away the free kick from the moment the whistle is blown until the free kick is taken.

[42nite]

Throw ins can be an effective way of killing the tempo, and wasting time.

How many times do you see a player fannying about with the ball, only for his mate to tell him to leave it, then stroll up and waste even more time!    If the ref does anything it's just a little tap of his watch! If he were to book either player, well that's just playing into their hands and wasting even more time.  A well used tactic.

How to stop it?  Maybe the nearest outfield player to where the ball went out has to take the throw in. This would stop the 2 player farce, and the left back gently trotting slower than I can walk, over to the right wing, taking care to ensure the ball is completely dry,  then take a short throw in into the corner...to waste even more time!  Also the throw should be taken within 10 seconds.   Obviously the ref would be able to show discretion on the 10 seconds if the ball has been lumped out deep into the oppositions half.  But the nearest outfield player to where the ball went out would need to take it. 

Any doubt as to who was nearest? The ref points to someone  and that is final, get on with the game!

 

Also refs need to tighten up on the 6 second rule for goalies.  Again, we see forwards with their hands in the air counting down the seconds that goalies are wasting and appealing to the ref to do something.  Again maybe a little tap of the watch if you're lucky.          Yellow card, next time you're off. That'll stop it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bernard Lerring]

11 hours ago, Prinny said:

 

I think the rugby style marching forwards if there's dissent was fun. So I'd have that back, and sin bins as an intermediary in between yellow and red for say persistent fouling.

Yep I agree both those rules would make the game better.

Perhaps include time wasting in the marching back rule too, would make it more difficult for teams to try to shut down games with ages still on the clock

[Steve Watts]

11 hours ago, sinenomine said:

New rules are unnecessary. What is needed is the consistent enforcement of the current rules, particularly on: dissent, obstruction (especially near the goal-line), timewasting and kicking/picking up/moving the ball away after a free kick is awarded. 

I've always felt that a rule change for when this happens would be to move the ball as far forward as the ball was taken, (if they take it 10 yards sideways or back, then the team with the free kick has the option to move forwards 10 yards etc).  That, as well as reinstating the 10 yards on dissent should help to cut this down.  With an automatic booking for both.

[Steve Watts]

12 hours ago, Lrrr said:

To take a rule from another sport, I wouldn't mind the idea of the 'self take' in hockey, you can take the equivalent of a foul or throw in playing it to your self, to carry on.

This would simply be a reinstatement of an old (very old) rule....I believe this was outlawed after Dixie Dean dribbled the ball from the corner flag to secure his hat-trick!

[downendcity]

Isn't one of the problems that VAR is increasingly removing referees from decision making, to the extent that they are reduced to "petty" decisions and shy away from contentious or controversial ones? 

Referring to previous comments, why did they ditch the idea of moving a free kick forward 10 yards if the offending team dissent? 

On a similar theme, why was the clamp down on holding/shirt pulling quietly dropped after its fanfare launch? Funnily enough, given the increasing intrusion of VAR, why do they not review corners and free kicks into the box, as technology would easily identify such offences? 

 

[Portland Bill]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah appreciate only the “top level” ref’s are full-time pros....but there has to be more integration with clubs.  It’s fine them coming together as a body of refs, but I want them to find a way to get into clubs and learn from each other.  Its not a one way learning exercise.  For example attach a Prem ref to a Champ club to avoid bias, and voice versa.

This is happening at Western League level to an extent. I went to an open forum in the summer, where referees and Western League managers had a debate on their perception of each other. 

It was really interesting, basically they are all working men involved in the sport they love on a Saturday afternoon, but managers think they can treat them like shite for 90 minutes! 

Referees do an honest job on what they see imo. Players want everything to go their way, you can’t satisfy 22 players and 2 managers all the time though. 

As for the pro game, referees do spend time at pro clubs, we often hear of this happening. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

This is happening at Western League level to an extent. I went to an open forum in the summer, where referees and Western League managers had a debate on their perception of each other. 

It was really interesting, basically they are all working men involved in the sport they love on a Saturday afternoon, but managers think they can treat them like shite for 90 minutes! 

Referees do an honest job on what they see imo. Players want everything to go their way, you can’t satisfy 22 players and 2 managers all the time though. 

As for the pro game, referees do spend time at pro clubs, we often hear of this happening. 

Yes, some do fitness training, and when new rules come in they will go out and explain them.  I’m suggesting more regular / day-to-day involvement.  When they play behind closed door friendlies, it’s often refereed by someone from the club.

[Hxj]

New rules are always good.  Hockey has moved hugely as a competitive sport, new pitches and the willingness to bring in new rules has helped.

As to football I would:

1. Cut the length of each half to 40 minutes but bring in a match clock which was stopped every time play stopped and was restarted everytime the ball started moving again.

2. Green, yellow and red cards as hockey - warning - 10 minutes sin bin - off

3. Give VAR a minute to prove that the onfield decision was wrong - or tough.

4. Allow 3G pitches in all leagues and competitions.

5. Make qualifying as a referee and actually refereeing competitive games a compulsory part of the coaching badges.

[42nite]

5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

 

It was really interesting, basically they are all working men involved in the sport they love on a Saturday afternoon, but managers think they can treat them like shite for 90 minutes! 

Referees do an honest job on what they see imo. Players want everything to go their way, you can’t satisfy 22 players and 2 managers all the time though. 

Spoken like an ex ref?

I qualified as a ref after having to give playing up due to age and injuries. I wanted to stay in the game I loved.

After years of  kicking lumps out of each other as a player, with not too much trouble, when you're a ref who doesn't give some young whippersnapper a 50-50 decision his way you're a ******* cheating ****.   Unfortunately this also goes for too many senior players as well.

I'm afraid I didn't last long, my skin wasn't thick enough.

 

[Carey 6]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Re 3.  Years ago in the Conference they went with no offside from free-kicks for a season. I can’t remember which team out of Notts Co or Lincoln used Mick Waitt (a beanpole striker) because he played for both....but basically every set piece he stood offside in front of the keeper and they just pumped balls towards him....and got promoted back to the FL.

That sounds amazing, proper shithousery football.