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English football reform being led by Liverpool and Man Utd


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7 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Club media
All Premier League clubs have the exclusive rights to sell eight live matches a season directly to fans via their own digital platforms in all international territories.

All Premier League and Championship clubs allowed to show limited in-match highlights on their own digital platforms.

No more than 27 games per club will be shown live in UK per season

Saturday 3pm broadcast blackouts remain to help protect EFL attendance

 

This is the part I was referring to

 

Each club at the moment can sell minimum of 8 games 

If they decide they want to be on only 10 times a season then the tv deal will go down in price for big clubs aren’t being shown and the 25% will go down EFL clubs get. 

And would only need the big 6 to agree to it

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5 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Club media
All Premier League clubs have the exclusive rights to sell eight live matches a season directly to fans via their own digital platforms in all international territories.

All Premier League and Championship clubs allowed to show limited in-match highlights on their own digital platforms.

No more than 27 games per club will be shown live in UK per season

Saturday 3pm broadcast blackouts remain to help protect EFL attendance

 

This is the part I was referring to

 

Each club at the moment can sell minimum of 8 games 

If they decide they want to be on only 10 times a season then the tv deal will go down in price for big clubs aren’t being shown and the 25% will go down EFL clubs get. 

Ah, ok.  So not Sky / BT PPV but clubs themselves.  Yes, devil will be in the detail of how sky / bt get to pick their games.  If they no longer get their picks, then you’re right, income will drop....sky / bt will, reduce their tv deal (EFL get less too) but clubs could be cutting off their own nose too.  There us concern I agree.

As I said on Twitter, what are the other 14 clubs proposing?  Parish at Crystal Palace is suggesting it’s not the PL’s job to help the EFL out.  That’s worse imho than this proposal.

I don’t know the answer.

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Read the article earlier today but just back from a brief holiday, so apologies of others have picked up these points.

Firstly, any proposal put together by the American owners of Liverpool and Man U must based on what’s best for their clubs and I suspect that the “bail out” nature of the proposal might carry headlines, given the current situation, but could well be a bit of a Trojan horse for the real aim of their plan.

I notice that hidden within the details is something about PL clubs being allowed to distribute live coverage of 8 games persons on their own platforms. I think it’s been mooted before that the big clubs really want to coterie the rights to their own games and to be able to offer them as a pay per view deal asI think is the case with RealMadrid and Barcelona. This option could be the thin end of the wedge in that respect. 

The formation of premier league was about the big clubs wanting a bigger share of the cake. Controlling the right to their own games would be the very big clubs wanting an even bigger share of an even bigger cake, and would cause an even wider gap between the wealthiest clubs and the rest of the prem, let alone with the championship.

 

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Read the article earlier today but just back from a brief holiday, so apologies of others have picked up these points.

Firstly, any proposal put together by the American owners of Liverpool and Man U must based on what’s best for their clubs and I suspect that the “bail out” nature of the proposal might carry headlines, given the current situation, but could well be a bit of a Trojan horse for the real aim of their plan.

I notice that hidden within the details is something about PL clubs being allowed to distribute live coverage of 8 games persons on their own platforms. I think it’s been mooted before that the big clubs really want to coterie the rights to their own games and to be able to offer them as a pay per view deal asI think is the case with RealMadrid and Barcelona. This option could be the thin end of the wedge in that respect. 

The formation of premier league was about the big clubs wanting a bigger share of the cake. Controlling the right to their own games would be the very big clubs wanting an even bigger share of an even bigger cake, and would cause an even wider gap between the wealthiest clubs and the rest of the prem, let alone with the championship.

 

Yeah. This is Trojan Horse stuff. Lead with redistribution of wealth; the bailout of EFL; sensible sounding stuff like getting rid of one cup comp and charity shield; maybe even going down to 18 (although personally I think England comfortably supports a 20 team top league). 

But that’s fluff to distract attention. it’s a big six power grab designed to not look like that. And that - that it’s being dressed up as something else - should raise alarm bells. 

Jason Burt in Telegraph has good article on it, including: 

Then there is the rub, the important stuff: abolish the principle of one-club, one vote with huge power placed in the hands of nine clubs - the ‘Big Six’ as well as Everton, Southampton and West Ham who will be afforded “long-term shareholder status”.

But even that, in fact, is window-dressing as only six votes would be needed to effect change. The ‘Big Six’ would be firmly in control, then.

Those six clubs would be able to take over football. They would take charge of broadcasting contracts and financial controls; they could kill the competition. They would own the Premier League.

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2 hours ago, BritAbroad said:

I'm not sure how they'll get 14 PL clubs to agree, when 5 clubs would get relegated. That would have to be 14 very certain clubs.

Well at a guess, there is a reason this has leaked in this form now. This must be starting point of plan. 
 

They will know that other PL clubs will go ballistic and so there will be stuff in there designed to be negotiated away. 18 team comp might be sacrificed if they can get agreement on this longterm shareholder thing. 
 

its unlikely the plan is to try and get this through in its entirety. So what are the bits the authors really want to get through? Think that’s pretty obvious - and it’s not an 18 team league. 

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Few issues

First, the special status stuff, absolutely not.

Second, not a fan of scrapping the League Cup

Third, if the Prem is losing 4 fixtures, then they have absolutely no need for the winter break. We don't have the weather issues that cause postponements that you might see in Germany. Certainly not snow on a large enough scale to cause the issues, and flooded pitches are only likely to hit teams lower down the league who don't have a winter break anyway.

 

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I still remember when Phil gartside was chairman of Bolton and he wanted to set up a proposal to ring fence the leagues so there wouldn't be relegation from the prem. 

Do a deal with the "big 6". It will be implemented once one of them gets relegated out of the league. Until then, keep it as it is. 

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I'm about as good on detail as Boris Johnson so excuse my dumbassness, but the proposals look okay to me.

Regards the big 6+3 special clubs, fair enough they're safe from demotion but there wasn't anything about them getting any other rights beyond that was there?

The TV rights thing doesn't sounds bad to me. Why should huge companies like Sky and BT be privileged?

I'm also not sure how this paves the way for a European Super League? Isn't this similar to the restructuring when the Premiership was introduced?

Help me. I'm simple.

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9 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm about as good on detail as Boris Johnson so excuse my dumbassness, but the proposals look okay to me.

Regards the big 6+3 special clubs, fair enough they're safe from demotion but there wasn't anything about them getting any other rights beyond that was there?

The TV rights thing doesn't sounds bad to me. Why should huge companies like Sky and BT be privileged?

I'm also not sure how this paves the way for a European Super League? Isn't this similar to the restructuring when the Premiership was introduced?

Help me. I'm simple.

I'm not 100% sure but think that currently it is a majority of the PL clubs that is needed for any changes to it’s constitution /rules.

I think the concern is that the proposals appear to give more power ( or pave the way for more power) to the big clubs to make changes. If this is the case then the worry would be with TV rights. The proposals put forward appears to give the EFL a “rescue package” which would see a larger share of the PL TV deals being shared with the football league and broadly speaking I can’t see many having any issue with that. 

However, if the big clubs have greater power to force changes without needing an overall majority, then they could then decide to give each club their own TV rights which would then enable those clubs to, in effect, offer their own games as pay per view which is where really big money is for an individual club. Without Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea etc in the package, SKY’s future offer would be a fraction of what it is now, and the share to the EFL would be correspondingly, and massively, reduced.

The fact that the proposals were formulated by the American owners of Liverpool and Man U is a concern, as it’s hard to believe that either have altruistic concerns for the wellbeing of the EFL, but do think that they see the current plight of the EFL clubs as the catalyst to secure changes that while being welcomed as the saviour of the EFL are really for their clubs’ long term benefit.

P.S. The formation of the premier league was all about the big clubs gaining a bigger slice of TV money in the first place, i.e. not wanting to share the wealth more evenly with the football league!

 

 

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

I'm about as good on detail as Boris Johnson so excuse my dumbassness, but the proposals look okay to me.

Regards the big 6+3 special clubs, fair enough they're safe from demotion but there wasn't anything about them getting any other rights beyond that was there?

The TV rights thing doesn't sounds bad to me. Why should huge companies like Sky and BT be privileged?

I'm also not sure how this paves the way for a European Super League? Isn't this similar to the restructuring when the Premiership was introduced?

Help me. I'm simple.

 

36 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I'm not 100% sure but think that currently it is a majority of the PL clubs that is needed for any changes to it’s constitution /rules.

I think the concern is that the proposals appear to give more power ( or pave the way for more power) to the big clubs to make changes. If this is the case then the worry would be with TV rights. The proposals put forward appears to give the EFL a “rescue package” which would see a larger share of the PL TV deals being shared with the football league and broadly speaking I can’t see many having any issue with that. 

However, if the big clubs have greater power to force changes without needing an overall majority, then they could then decide to give each club their own TV rights which would then enable those clubs to, in effect, offer their own games as pay per view which is where really big money is for an individual club. Without Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea etc in the package, SKY’s future offer would be a fraction of what it is now, and the share to the EFL would be correspondingly, and massively, reduced.

The fact that the proposals were formulated by the American owners of Liverpool and Man U is a concern, as it’s hard to believe that either have altruistic concerns for the wellbeing of the EFL, but do think that they see the current plight of the EFL clubs as the catalyst to secure changes that while being welcomed as the saviour of the EFL are really for their clubs’ long term benefit.

P.S. The formation of the premier league was all about the big clubs gaining a bigger slice of TV money in the first place, i.e. not wanting to share the wealth more evenly with the football league!

 

 

I wasn't particularly clear what the protected status was at first, but my understanding is that it changes the votes needed for passing a resolution from any 14 clubs to any 6 of the designated 9. Basically handing control to the big 6 clubs. An unabashed power grab in my eyes, and stinks like weeks-old rotting fish.

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1 hour ago, 22A said:

250 million split between 70+ EFL clubs = a little over 3 million each. That will appease the conscience of big clubs, but not do much for many EFL clubs.

We don’t know how the bailout money will be split.  unlikely to be split equally.
 

The (18/19) split is:

- EFL Clubs with PPs £264m (8 clubs)

Plus:

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So in total £370m to EFL

If we take the £4.46bn tv deal over three years, that’s roughly £1.5bn per year.  25% of that is £375m per annum.  Not much different.  Apart from no PPs.

if we take the rough splits above:

Champ 75% = £280m / 24 clubs = £11.7m each per annum

Lg1 = 15% = £56m / 24 = £2.33m pa

Lg2 = 10% = £37m / 24 = £1.5m pa

You can see the appeal for the EFL...which is about to go tits up.

The downside is whatever the PL get voted in, and future voting rights.

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Ive still not read anywhere, how this 250M is going to be distributed to the EFL. It cant be equally split, so whats it based on?

There are some aspects that are palatable, but its a power grab at a time of distress by the top clubs. It will further concentrate wealth at the very top of the game, and make it even harder to get into the PL for the likes of us. 

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2 hours ago, 054123 said:

Imagine if they reduced the league and scrapped the league cup, claiming fixture congestion and fatigue, only to compete in more European/lucrative games in 2/3 years time.

Sickening.

At this stage, I'd be quite happy if the 'big' clubs went off and formed their European super League, and took their glory hunting fans with them

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24 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ive still not read anywhere, how this 250M is going to be distributed to the EFL. It cant be equally split, so whats it based on?

There are some aspects that are palatable, but its a power grab at a time of distress by the top clubs. It will further concentrate wealth at the very top of the game, and make it even harder to get into the PL for the likes of us. 

Further to my post below, the EFL tv deal (£595m / 5 years) is split:

- champ 71% = £3.5m per club pa

- Lg1 18% = £0.9m per club pa

- Lg2 = £0.55m per club pa

No idea how the £250m will get split though!

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Blimey, the parachute payment thing is good. Promotion this Year could be worth well more than the £100m they always rave about. Interesting times, but uncertain times. West Ham finished where they are saying would be the play-off team last season, would certainly make it tasty. 

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56 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

 

I wasn't particularly clear what the protected status was at first, but my understanding is that it changes the votes needed for passing a resolution from any 14 clubs to any 6 of the designated 9. Basically handing control to the big 6 clubs. An unabashed power grab in my eyes, and stinks like weeks-old rotting fish.

If this is the case, then what’s to stop the “big 6” in future bringing in changes that undo everything being proposed at the moment?

As others have alluded to, a change such as this would also enable the big 6 to bring in control of their own TV rights ( something they’ve long wanted)to the detriment of other PL clubs, let alone EFL clubs. Voting power of this nature would potentially enable them to ring fence the PL clubs they want to be in the top flight i.e remove relegation, which sounds remarkably like the American NFL model - remind me where Liverpool and Man U’s owners come from?

Who gets to decide which clubs constitute the designated 9 and what criteria are applied in making such a decision?

I’m guessing it would be all around success or time in the premier league ( or even more obscure factors) , which would once again see the airbrushing out of the existence of top flight football in this country prior to 1993.

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2 hours ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

 

I wasn't particularly clear what the protected status was at first, but my understanding is that it changes the votes needed for passing a resolution from any 14 clubs to any 6 of the designated 9. Basically handing control to the big 6 clubs. An unabashed power grab in my eyes, and stinks like weeks-old rotting fish.

Aha, you're right, that sounds to me like an unacceptable power grab which I guess they have sugar coated with a load of relatively sensible practical proposals. 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Further to my post below, the EFL tv deal (£595m / 5 years) is split:

- champ 71% = £3.5m per club pa

- Lg1 18% = £0.9m per club pa

- Lg2 = £0.55m per club pa

No idea how the £250m will get split though!

Did I dream this or was there was mention somewhere of some EFL funding being allocated on a basis of number of seats?

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Just now, mozo said:

Aha, you're right, that sounds to me like an unacceptable power grab which I guess they have sugar coated with a load of relatively sensible practical proposals. 

Did I dream this or was there was mention somewhere of some EFL funding being allocated on a basis of number of seats?

No, that’s a separate pot to help improve grounds.

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20 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Stick a %10 or even %5 levy / tax on all transfer fees 

The money to fund a football trust that could offer financial support to all Clubs and Football nationally (Interest free loans where applicable etc)

Premier League Clubs alone have spent nearly 1.5 Billion in the last window

That alone would raise £75 million for such a trust at a %5 levy

This is a great idea but the 5% transfer levy is actually already in place. It payable on all transfer fees and I understand that it was initially created to pay into a pension fund for players. I believe some of it is now used to support clubs during times of financial hardship. 

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55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, that’s a separate pot to help improve grounds.

So funding towards a new Dolman stand and then a new Atyeo if we can get the go ahead.... whack a second tier on the south stand while they’re at it 

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8 hours ago, 22A said:

250 million split between 70+ EFL clubs = a little over 3 million each. That will appease the conscience of big clubs, but not do much for many EFL clubs.

It will actually, because remember not only the amount is key but how it is distributed- @Davefevs has already covered about Parachute Payments higher up the page. ⬆️

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I'm conflicted on this. A lot in the proposals to like, but reduction of PL to 18- 2 clubs cast to the wilderness from the League, 2 up 2 down and then the 3rd bottom side joining 3rd-5th in the playoffs? Pulls the drawbridge up a little but it's not terminal, see Bundesliga- think 3rd bottom plays 3rd place for the last place but clubs don't go into freefall and bankruptcy.

Then again, reform is much needed and sorting out the revenue distribution is also very necessary- imagine being say Aston Villa dropping into a League though with NO Parachute Payments and a salary cap (albeit transitional arrangements), while FFP harmonised in full- maybe worth voting it through just for that prospect! ? 

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8 hours ago, 22A said:

250 million split between 70+ EFL clubs = a little over 3 million each. That will appease the conscience of big clubs, but not do much for many EFL clubs.

They have a conscience?

 

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