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English football reform being led by Liverpool and Man Utd


SedRA
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8 hours ago, 22A said:

250 million split between 70+ EFL clubs = a little over 3 million each. That will appease the conscience of big clubs, but not do much for many EFL clubs.

They have a conscience?

 

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14 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

Those six clubs would be able to take over football. They would take charge of broadcasting contracts and financial controls; they could kill the competition. They would own the Premier League.

For us fans it’s competition that is the life blood of the game, with clubs fortunes fluctuating, seeing a top club struggling or even relegated and minnows coming from nowhere to achieve success. In my lifetime I’ve witnessed teams like Notts County, Carlisle and Luton in the top flight, Watford come from division 4 to runners up in division 1 and Wimbledon come from non league to cup winners and to be a thorn in the die of many a big name club in the top division. It’s all part of the appeal of English football.

I don't think the owners of the big clubs have the slightest interest in this type of competition. The only competition they are interested in is competition for the vast amounts of money sloshing around at the top end of the game and limiting the number of clubs that have access to that supply of revenue. 

Do the Glazers, Fenway, Qatar or Abramovich have the slightest interest in the fortunes of league 2 clubs or the non league pyramid below ( or even know they exist)?      The support to the EFL apparently offered by these proposals is, I think, the means to an end rather than an end in itself. The amount being offered is relative peanuts to the top clubs compared to what they may be able to make if they secure the changes to the power they wield in the PL.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One other interesting bit, only read it briefly was the idea of newly promoted clubs having to hold back a proportion of revenue as an insurance in the event of relegation.

Thing is it will lead to more relegations of promoted clubs as established prem clubs will be receiving more money

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A couple of points.

 

All the proposals make some sense except for the 'long-term shareholders voting rights'.  Personally I would prefer the maintenance of the parachute payments, as whilst it distorts the championship it actually reduces the distortion in the Premier League.

 

Interesting to note that the full hearted praise from Parry, is it a coincidence that the following provision is included:

Two-thirds of the long-term shareholders can cause to be adopted without approval from the other clubs:

i) the election or removal of the CEO and/or a member of the board;

Call me a cynic but is he interested in a job?

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I'm (just) about old enough to remember when the team from the div above from included in the playoffs. I might be wrong but they scrapped it because 1) they wanted to move the final to Wembley - and it's a bit odd lifting a trophy for staying up and 2) The relegated clubs fans usually went mental when they were relegated - Sheff Utd against us and famously Chelsea against Boro.

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On 11/10/2020 at 15:26, Lanterne Rouge said:

That`s just nine of the eighteen. If they filled the remaining spots with clubs who have spent longest in the PL Burnley would be in and Leeds out.

In there entire history Leeds have spent longer outside of the top flight than in it.

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3 hours ago, BS5_RED said:

I'm (just) about old enough to remember when the team from the div above from included in the playoffs. I might be wrong but they scrapped it because 1) they wanted to move the final to Wembley - and it's a bit odd lifting a trophy for staying up and 2) The relegated clubs fans usually went mental when they were relegated - Sheff Utd against us and famously Chelsea against Boro.

Just imagine if a dodgy VAR handball penalty meant that little old championship play off team Bristol City (for example) beat 16th placed Everton (for example) to relegate the Toffees to the Championship.

We'd love it of course but the press and old boys would go mucking fental.

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On 11/10/2020 at 13:31, SedRA said:

Who along with rest of the top 6 and a few others would be granted ‘special status’ in the new 18 team format. In return giving the EFL a £250m bailout and 25% of EPL income going forwards. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998

 

Genuinely trying to help reform for the better or shameless power grab?

Power grab definitely.

The cynic in me also thinks that the timing of the announcement has simply been accelerated by COVID.

Small EFL clubs were slowly going out of business anyway, COVID or not.

And the vast bailout pot for the EFL is what the Premier League should have been doing in the first place.

The Premier League is both the cause of, and the solution to the problem.

Breathtaking arrogance. 

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4 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Have we come out in support of these plans?

 

 

Based on my current understanding of the plans, I hope we oppose. They might be luring us in, with a stunning picture of our bride-to-be, Scarlett Johansson, but once we have signed the contract, we will get led around the corner and meet the new wife, Ann Widdecombe.

As with the reason the Premier League formed in the first place, the big clubs are concerned about what benefits them, not what benefits everyone.

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The proposal makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. 3 years in the making and they wait until the EFL clubs are backed up to the edge of a cliff before showing their hand. It’s big business, it’s a power grab, and they’re striking when opposition is at its weakest. 
Football needs a reform but this definitely ain’t it. The wealthy bigwig yanks know diddlysquat about English football romance, and I’m not sure they’d care if they did. 
Leicester City gave a shot in the arm of hope to all clubs and fans across the football pyramid. Any flickering light of a similar scenario will be extinguished  if this goes ahead. 
I can’t live without romance, and I’ll find it difficult not to turn my back on the sport if this gets the green light. 
Please let there be another way to safe guard our game. 

Edited by MartockRed
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2 minutes ago, MartockRed said:

The proposal makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. 3 years in the making and they wait until the EFL clubs are backed up to the edge of a cliff before showing their hand. It’s big business, it’s a power grab, and they’re striking when opposition is at its weakest. 
Football needs a reform but definitely this ain’t it. The wealthy bigwig yanks know diddlysquat about English football romance, and I’m not sure they’d care if they did. 
Leicester City gave a shot in the arm of hope to all clubs and fans across the football pyramid. Any flickering light of a similar scenario will be distinguished if this goes ahead. 
I can’t live without romance, and I’ll find it difficult not to turn my back on the sport if this gets the green light. 
Please let there be another way to safe guard our game. 

 

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3 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

Based on my current understanding of the plans, I hope we oppose. They might be luring us in, with a stunning picture of our bride-to-be, Scarlett Johansson, but once we have signed the contract, we will get led around the corner and meet the new wife, Ann Widdecombe.

As with the reason the Premier League formed in the first place, the big clubs are concerned about what benefits them, not what benefits everyone.

I imagine the scrapping of parachute payments would be attractive to a team like us who've never been in the PL and are competing with teams who have.

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Just now, Northern Red said:

I imagine the scrapping of parachute payments would be attractive to a team like us who've never been in the PL and are competing with teams who have.

I agree, stripping a relegated team of that funding makes the 2nd tier a more level playing field for the rest. But I'd see that as tossing some baubles to get clubs onside to their power grab.

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Why would we want to win promotion to a league that will be totally weighted towards the top six ( even more than now )...

Play 10 less league matches 

Lose a cup competition

I'm sorry to say, of this goes through, it undermines the entire structure of the game.

It's time like this I'm delighted SL is our owner. Can't imagine we'd support this if they're pulling a fast one. Our owner is a shrewd cookie when it comes to running a business. I expect us to stand with others and dismiss this!

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1 hour ago, MartockRed said:

The proposal makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. 3 years in the making and they wait until the EFL clubs are backed up to the edge of a cliff before showing their hand. It’s big business, it’s a power grab, and they’re striking when opposition is at its weakest. 
Football needs a reform but this definitely ain’t it. The wealthy bigwig yanks know diddlysquat about English football romance, and I’m not sure they’d care if they did. 
Leicester City gave a shot in the arm of hope to all clubs and fans across the football pyramid. Any flickering light of a similar scenario will be extinguished  if this goes ahead. 
I can’t live without romance, and I’ll find it difficult not to turn my back on the sport if this gets the green light. 
Please let there be another way to safe guard our game. 

I agree, I don't know what the voting percentages required are for this to pass but I expect that almost half of premier league teams and half of the championship clubs will be against this proposal (the pay off won't be enough compared to the current pay off of premier league status).

The idea is for the big clubs to give cash to struggling owners in order to gain control of the game going forward, there is no doubt that it will benefit the big clubs in the long run and the rest get an instant pay out, win-win except for people who value the competition.

Now I am being suspicious but I wonder if this is why the big clubs haven't exactly lobbied the government hard to get fans back in grounds, they want this proposal or something similar to pass first?

The future doesn't look very bright if this passes and I suspect I will be joining you in turning my back on the game. You can watch good quality internet highlights of foreign leagues in english very easily these days and I have been finding myself watching them a lot more than the premier league already this season.

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2 hours ago, Northern Red said:

I imagine the scrapping of parachute payments would be attractive to a team like us who've never been in the PL and are competing with teams who have.

Sod’s law they will scrap parachute payments once we gain promotion!

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4 hours ago, MartockRed said:

The proposal makes me sick to the pit of my stomach. 3 years in the making and they wait until the EFL clubs are backed up to the edge of a cliff before showing their hand. It’s big business, it’s a power grab, and they’re striking when opposition is at its weakest. 
Football needs a reform but this definitely ain’t it. The wealthy bigwig yanks know diddlysquat about English football romance, and I’m not sure they’d care if they did. 
Leicester City gave a shot in the arm of hope to all clubs and fans across the football pyramid. Any flickering light of a similar scenario will be extinguished  if this goes ahead. 
I can’t live without romance, and I’ll find it difficult not to turn my back on the sport if this gets the green light. 
Please let there be another way to safe guard our game. 

I agree, the PL should not be trying to take advantage of the situation.  From a really simplistic point of view the EFL can reject it.  If the DCMS are so against it, why don’t they put their money where their mouth is?

Back to the PL “offer”, the EFL need to work out their non-negotiable, and for the things they are willing to concede, how far will they concede.

People are posting like it’s a done deal.  It hasn’t got 14 PL votes....yet.  Nor do we know whether it’s a take it or leave it offer.

But talks do have to start quickly.  Believe EFL clubs are meeting today to discuss.

3 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Apparently a £375m offer of funding for efl for 10% stake in league 2 was turned without clubs knowing of the bid

Depends on the constitution of the EFL and its board.  Although in fairness you’d think something of this magnitude would at least be up for consideration at club level?

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, the PL should not be trying to take advantage of the situation.  From a really simplistic point of view the EFL can reject it.  If the DCMS are so against it, why don’t they put their money where their mouth is?

Thing with DCMS getting involved is do we really want to go down a path where the government has a stake in football? State interests, public ownership, does it ever really solven a problem? 

I agree it would be nice for there to be two offers on the table, something for the PL to have to at least have to consider outbidding or out negotiating. I just don't know why our second option has to be, in effect, a state bailout.

If it's because that's the only other entity that has the cash and willpower to 'bid' then ok, but I'm not any more comfortable with state intervention as I am with 'long term shareholders'.

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2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thing with DCMS getting involved is do we really want to go down a path where the government has a stake in football? State interests, public ownership, does it ever really solven a problem? 

I agree it would be nice for there to be two offers on the table, something for the PL to have to at least have to consider outbidding or out negotiating. I just don't know why our second option has to be, in effect, a state bailout.

If it's because that's the only other entity that has the cash and willpower to 'bid' then ok, but I'm not any more comfortable with state intervention as I am with 'long term shareholders'.

Nor do I, but I think it’s a bit rich of them.  Having said that, I’d rather they concentrated on the virus and building a set of transparent and fair rules for how lockdown is worked.

Id like to see the FA step in too, maybe a joint bailout in some shape....they have tens of millions in their savings account!

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Nor do I, but I think it’s a bit rich of them.  Having said that, I’d rather they concentrated on the virus and building a set of transparent and fair rules for how lockdown is worked.

Id like to see the FA step in too, maybe a joint bailout in some shape....they have tens of millions in their savings account!

 

They do. Another entity that comes to mind is the national lottery. Don't they have 100s of million somewhere? I'm cautious of just casting a speculative net to catch anyone with a billion quid "lying around", but there are others out there that the EFL could potentially approach for some sort of partnership.

Trouble would be how any new partner would affect the existing relationship between the EFL and the PL. Cut the PL off too much and do they pull up the relegation/promotion drawbridge? Do they cut parachute payments and provide no replacement?

Ultimately the EFL clubs currently in financial trouble don't have the time for this kind of complex negotiation to play out - of course the PL are well aware of this and so welcome back to the idea of them taking advantage of a terribly weak and scared EFL 

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2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

They do. Another entity that comes to mind is the national lottery. Don't they have 100s of million somewhere? I'm cautious of just casting a speculative net to catch anyone with a billion quid "lying around", but there are others out there that the EFL could potentially approach for some sort of partnership.

Trouble would be how any new partner would affect the existing relationship between the EFL and the PL. Cut the PL off too much and do they pull up the relegation/promotion drawbridge? Do they cut parachute payments and provide no replacement?

Ultimately the EFL clubs currently in financial trouble don't have the time for this kind of complex negotiation to play out - of course the PL are well aware of this and so welcome back to the idea of them taking advantage of a terribly weak and scared EFL 

The Lottery give money to charities and community organisations. Much as I love football, it would be an utter travesty for that money to be used to prop up football and, in any case, businesses are (quite rightly) not eligible for Lottery funding. 

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2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

The Lottery give money to charities and community organisations. Much as I love football, it would be an utter travesty for that money to be used to prop up football and, in any case, businesses are (quite rightly) not eligible for Lottery funding. 

Oh completely, and I know the lottery supported charities include grassroots football enterprises. It was as just an example of another entity that feasibly had the cash and some sort of interest in supporting the EFL.

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Whilst I understand the cynicism around these proposals, and it is absolutely a power grab from the big clubs to have more control over the rest of the Premier League, it's worth bearing in mind the Premier League was itself a power grab to give the top 20 clubs a great deal more power than everyone else.

Maybe I'm missing something but it seems to me that, from the perspective of an EFL club, this is an internal squabble between two sets of people who ****** the rest of football over thirty years ago. One party wants more power for themselves but is willing to give the EFL clubs a lot more in exchange for that power. The other party wants to keep power amongst themselves and the other party and is offering the EFL clubs less.

I'm not saying EFL clubs should support the proposals but I certainly don't think this a time to support the status quo. We end up with no more or less power than we did in the first place whatever happens, so it might be in EFL clubs' interests to talk to both parties and see what concessions can be extracted. 

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I think the plan is there to concentrate the majority of the funds into the top six. 

I suspect that there is some concern from the bigger teams that perceived smaller clubs are starting to catch up due to the money the premier league continues to generate. Wolves and especially Leicester are coming close to consistently breaking in to the top six and other clubs will join them.

United have been poor for an extended amount of time struggling to gain a champions league spot most seasons and the more clubs become competitive the harder it will be. These rule changes will stop that by reducing the ability for premier league clubs to be as competitive once the bigger clubs are able to sell their own games to Sky, BT or their own channel the collective sky sport subscription package will be less attractive. 

It is cleverly packaged but Liverpool and Man Utd are only looking how they can reduce competition to ensure that they can gain the benefit of the champions league money and sell their own services.  

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