Aguero

[Bris Red]

The world has gone mad, absolutely mad.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Badger08 said:

Yeah, just seen the clip below and I see even less of a problem. I've blinked for longer.  Crying over nothing, but that's the way of the world now. Seen players touch refs like that hundreds of times. Look at our game yesterday for example. 

I can see people trying to shape this into a 'PC gone mad - stop crying and being such snowflakes' type argument, but I don't think that's the case. It's just whether Aguero treated the female official differently to how he'd have treated a male official. I don't think he'd have done that to a male linesman, and that's the issue. 

[Numero Uno]

If you watch the clip PROPERLY you can see what happens. Aguero touches the Lino, she moves her hand towards him to say piss off, which Aguero does, the ref gets on the mic asking if he needs to take it further and she puts her hand up in a halting motion to say “No, it’s dealt with”.

Obviously it shouldn’t happen but the lady in question is obviously strong enough to be doing the job in the first place and quite clearly dealt with the situation with minimal fuss. It’s the likes of the BBC and Her Majesty’s Gutter Press who want Aguero hung, drawn and quartered.

[2015]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I can see people trying to shape this into a 'PC gone mad - stop crying and being such snowflakes' type argument, but I don't think that's the case. It's just whether Aguero treated the female official differently to how he'd have treated a male official. I don't think he'd have done that to a male linesman, and that's the issue. 

Isn't it sexist to believe Women can't be treated the same as Men? Do they need special treatment? 

Anything big made of this Aguero incident? Thought not

[swanker]

1 hour ago, pl00peh91 said:

The fact that he’s touching the inside of her neck and she clearly looked comfortable about it?

Funny you say that. Last night I touched the inside of my wife’s leg and she looked very uncomfortable!

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If you watch the clip PROPERLY you can see what happens. Aguero touches the Lino, she moves her hand towards him to say piss off, which Aguero does, the ref gets on the mic asking if he needs to take it further and she puts her hand up in a halting motion to say “No, it’s dealt with”.

Obviously it shouldn’t happen but the lady in question is obviously strong enough to be doing the job in the first place and quite clearly dealt with the situation with minimal fuss. It’s the likes of the BBC and Her Majesty’s Gutter Press who want Aguero hung, drawn and quartered.

Not even sure its that dramatic. He argues with her for 5 seconds saying its their ball knowing it come off him last. And looks like he is being apologetic and she kind of pats him back like don’t worry about it. Think ref did ask her if ok. She said its all good or something like that. 
 

Like I have said if players were booked every time they intentionally touched a referee I’d be all for it. Dissent as well, every time. It isn’t how it is though at the minute. 

[Numero Uno]

To the people who are outraged.....is it the incident that upsets you or the fact that we clearly have a strong woman able to deal with it herself without making any fuss and without the need for MEN to come to her aid?

[CiderCraig]

11 minutes ago, swanker said:

Funny you say that. Last night I touched the inside of my wife’s leg and she looked very uncomfortable!

That's cos I was there as well mate  

[Phileas Fogg]

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Isn't it sexist to believe Women can't be treated the same as Men? Do they need special treatment? 

It's a tricky question, in an ideal world no. But I think it's good form for players to be a little bit more considerate whilst female officials are still so rare and finding their way in the game. 

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Anything big made of this Aguero incident? Thought not

I don't know what that random picture entails when posted with 0 context

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

To the people who are outraged.....is it the incident that upsets you or the fact that we clearly have a strong woman able to deal with it herself without making any fuss and without the need for MEN to come to her aid?

No one is 'outraged' from what I can see. It's completely possible to discuss a subjective issue like this in a mature way without anyone 'crying' or being 'outraged'.

[Kibs]

Madness, absolute madness. I’m 100% sure there are occurrences similar to this up and down the country every weekend.

Except it’s a male assistant/referee so nobody feels the need to be offended/outraged for him.

should you touch an official? Of course not.

I’d be really interested to see what she has to say about it. Wouldn’t surprise me if she hadn’t given it a second thought until she saw it all over social media etc..... 

 

 

 

 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No one is 'outraged' from what I can see. It's completely possible to discuss a subjective issue like this in a mature way without anyone 'crying' or being 'outraged'.

Not sure how much discussion is required? Was Aguero wrong to put his hands on the Lino? Yes. Was the incident dealt with by the “victim” herself without the need for further intervention? Yes.

1 minute ago, Kibs said:

Madness, absolute madness. I’m 100% sure there are occurrences similar to this up and down the country every weekend.

Except it’s a male assistant/referee so nobody feels the need to be offended/outraged for him.

should you touch an official? Of course not.

I’d be really interested to see what she has to say about it. Wouldn’t surprise me if she hadn’t given it a second thought until she saw it all over social media etc..... 

 

 

 

 

The last thing the Lino would want to do is discuss an incident that is being blown up by OTHERS.

[Redstart]

I'm getting too old I reckon, all the shite going on in the world these days and cobblers like this even gets a mention. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and on everything, I appreciate that and support it but jeez I can't help thinking some people just have too much idle time on their hands

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If you watch the clip PROPERLY you can see what happens. Aguero touches the Lino, she moves her hand towards him to say piss off, which Aguero does, the ref gets on the mic asking if he needs to take it further and she puts her hand up in a halting motion to say “No, it’s dealt with”.

Obviously it shouldn’t happen but the lady in question is obviously strong enough to be doing the job in the first place and quite clearly dealt with the situation with minimal fuss. It’s the likes of the BBC and Her Majesty’s Gutter Press who want Aguero hung, drawn and quartered.

No-one wants him hung, drawn and quartered. There's really no need to be quite so dramatic.

It's always best to look at these things in a calm and collected manner. And if you do that, then it is quite clear that what Aguero did was inappropropriate. No-one can sensibly dispute that.

However, like you say, the lineswoman dealt with it by politely telling him to **** off and that should be the end of the matter. 

[TheCulturalBomb]

Bloody good looking bloke mind but regardless, officials being man or women. Shouldn't have done it.

[Matty Taylors a Red]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Isn't it sexist to believe Women can't be treated the same as Men? Do they need special treatment? 

Anything big made of this Aguero incident? Thought not

Good example, here’s another!

Why is it only a problem with a female ref? I feel as if anyone who sees it as a problem is subconsciously sexist themselves as they think women can’t defend themselves while a male ref can. 

[Sir Colby-Tit]

25 minutes ago, TheCulturalBomb said:

Bloody good looking bloke mind 

As was Ted Bundy 

[054123]

2 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Ridiculous thing to do, especially to a female official and the fact we're in a pandemic.

A slap on the wrist for Mr Ageuro and as long as she's happy, move on

Just out of interest, if she wasn’t happy to move on, why would that make a difference?

Either you do something wrong or you dont. The punishment should fit the crime.

I wouldn’t want to live in a world where either the crime or the punishment is defined by feelings of the victim on a case by case basis.

[054123]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If you watch the clip PROPERLY you can see what happens. Aguero touches the Lino, she moves her hand towards him to say piss off, which Aguero does, the ref gets on the mic asking if he needs to take it further and she puts her hand up in a halting motion to say “No, it’s dealt with”.

Obviously it shouldn’t happen but the lady in question is obviously strong enough to be doing the job in the first place and quite clearly dealt with the situation with minimal fuss. It’s the likes of the BBC and Her Majesty’s Gutter Press who want Aguero hung, drawn and quartered.

Absolutely, we run the risk of denying this strong, female official agency in the situation.

Its the same if put his hand on a male official.

Either he’s done something wrong or he hasn’t.

[handsofclay]

2 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Has she complained ? If she hasn’t then don’t feel the need to complain for her.

As others have said it wasn’t aggressive on his behalf. I agree it looked a bit creepy perhaps but she shrugged it off and got on with it. We do live in an overly sensitive world now

I cannot agree more with you. However, we need to take into account the sensitivities of those who are shocked by the fact that she hasn't complained. I feel that she should've realised this and at least looked disgusted and perhaps could've then be seen to be discussing the incident with her agent with a view to appearing in a documentary about the horrors of having been touched on the neck or shoulder by someone else.

I often feel that when I was being taught the horrors of the trenches in World War I, that I was being fed a diversionary narrative so that I wouldn't learn about the absolutely awful conditions and treatment meted out to women and men on the home front in England where they were prey to being touched occasionally on the shoulders, sometimes by members of the opposite sex. These shameful incidents were clearly brushed under the carpet. Nobody can tell me that in the four years duration of that war, there were no incidents whatsoever of anyone being touched on the shoulder, elbow, neck, head or even knuckles by someone else. Yet nothing ever appears in the history books about it. It's all blokes getting bits of their anatomy blown off, dying en masse in futile assaults upon the enemy trenches, having their toes consumed by rats, being shot at dawn for desertion sometimes aged under 16, and suffering from shellshock in France. The war poets must be turning in their graves at the realisation that their efforts were being waisted chronicling such events when the real horrors of people touching other people occasionally was occurring at home in Blighty. 

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Isn't it sexist to believe Women can't be treated the same as Men? Do they need special treatment? 

Anything big made of this Aguero incident? Thought not

Is this the next same sex couple to appear on Strictly?

[Judda]

For me it looked a bit patronising like he was saying she didn't get it.... but then maybe that's my issue assuming he's sexist! The other pics show he's done similar with male refs so maybe he's just tactile....

[IAmNick]

16 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

I cannot agree more with you. However, we need to take into account the sensitivities of those who are shocked by the fact that she hasn't complained. I feel that she should've realised this and at least looked disgusted and perhaps could've then be seen to be discussing the incident with her agent with a view to appearing in a documentary about the horrors of having been touched on the neck or shoulder by someone else.

I often feel that when I was being taught the horrors of the trenches in World War I, that I was being fed a diversionary narrative so that I wouldn't learn about the absolutely awful conditions and treatment meted out to women and men on the home front in England where they were prey to being touched occasionally on the shoulders, sometimes by members of the opposite sex. These shameful incidents were clearly brushed under the carpet. Nobody can tell me that in the four years duration of that war, there were no incidents whatsoever of anyone being touched on the shoulder, elbow, neck, head or even knuckles by someone else. Yet nothing ever appears in the history books about it. It's all blokes getting bits of their anatomy blown off, dying en masse in futile assaults upon the enemy trenches, having their toes consumed by rats, being shot at dawn for desertion sometimes aged under 16, and suffering from shellshock in France. The war poets must be turning in their graves at the realisation that their efforts were being waisted chronicling such events when the real horrors of people touching other people occasionally was occurring at home in Blighty. 

What a stupid post. Congratulations on somehow managing to shoehorn talking about the war into talking about Aguero touching an official though

 

29 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Absolutely, we run the risk of denying this strong, female official agency in the situation.

 

43 minutes ago, Matty Taylors a Red said:

Why is it only a problem with a female ref? I feel as if anyone who sees it as a problem is subconsciously sexist themselves as they think women can’t defend themselves while a male ref can. 

Is that true though? Do you think that context make no difference to a situation?

Personally I'd say that when you are in a minority it can be harder to speak up or "defend" yourself as you put it. In the past there are lots of examples in the game of people in a minority having their position improved due to others support and speaking out on their behalf, where they may have struggled or not been able to do something alone. It's then not wrong for other people to look at a situation and give their thoughts or speak up in support if needed.

Think, for example (and I know this is very different but it is just an example) or all the abuse we now know went on from Harvey Weinstein and co. Lots of people there didn't speak out for a long time - would people have been sexist to speak up and say they saw things going on they thought might have been inappropriate, because it was just up to the victims to do it? It's often hard for somebody to do it themselves. Again, obviously not saying that is equitable to this but it's just an example.

That's all that's happening here, and most people seem to agree it was a stupid thing to do, but mostly dealt with at the time.

[054123]

8 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

What a stupid post. Congratulations on somehow managing to shoehorn talking about the war into talking about Aguero touching an official though

 

 

Is that true though? Do you think that context make no difference to a situation?

Personally I'd say that when you are in a minority it can be harder to speak up or "defend" yourself as you put it. In the past there are lots of examples in the game of people in a minority having their position improved due to others support and speaking out on their behalf, where they may have struggled or not been able to do something alone. It's then not wrong for other people to look at a situation and give their thoughts or speak up in support if needed.

Think, for example (and I know this is very different but it is just an example) or all the abuse we now know went on from Harvey Weinstein and co. Lots of people there didn't speak out for a long time - would people have been sexist to speak up and say they saw things going on they thought might have been inappropriate, because it was just up to the victims to do it? It's often hard for somebody to do it themselves. Again, obviously not saying that is equitable to this but it's just an example.

That's all that's happening here, and most people seem to agree it was a stupid thing to do, but mostly dealt with at the time.

All good points.

There are always different sides to a discussion and the truth is, often, difficulty placed in the middle.

[David Brent]

3 hours ago, wendyredredrobin said:

A man dare not even touch a woman nowadays without the fear of being accused of assault.  Some even seem to think it's a crime to look at a woman.  Get intimate and she'll try to take you for every penny she can.  The world has gone bonkers.

Why does Aguero need to touch the official?

[2015]

55 minutes ago, Matty Taylors a Red said:

Good example, here’s another!

Why is it only a problem with a female ref? I feel as if anyone who sees it as a problem is subconsciously sexist themselves as they think women can’t defend themselves while a male ref can. 

Yes absolutely. They are waiting to see a problem with it and Sian Massey hasn't even come out to say there was an issue has she? Those who look for sexism and racism are more sexist and racist than they proclaim.

Non story, he shouldn't touch any official, end of story. Nothing to see here

[Matty Taylors a Red]

11 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Is that true though? Do you think that context make no difference to a situation?

Personally I'd say that when you are in a minority it can be harder to speak up or "defend" yourself as you put it. In the past there are lots of examples in the game of people in a minority having their position improved due to others support and speaking out on their behalf, where they may have struggled or not been able to do something alone. It's then not wrong for other people to look at a situation and give their thoughts or speak up in support if needed.

Think, for example (and I know this is very different but it is just an example) or all the abuse we now know went on from Harvey Weinstein and co. Lots of people there didn't speak out for a long time - would people have been sexist to speak up and say they saw things going on they thought might have been inappropriate, because it was just up to the victims to do it? It's often hard for somebody to do it themselves. Again, obviously not saying that is equitable to this but it's just an example.

That's all that's happening here, and most people seem to agree it was a stupid thing to do, but mostly dealt with at the time.

I agree it was a stupid thing to do, the reaction to it was inevitable.
I do also see your point on minorities not speaking up, but I think minorities have a far louder voice than they once had, particularly women in sport. If Massey-Ellis wanted to speak out on the incident then she would be listened to, don’t think she needs anyone speaking on her behalf in this case. 

[Wolf Island]

Ask yourself this - if you saw a colleague do this at your place of work what would happen to them?

[HoldenBall]

4 minutes ago, Hare Island said:

Ask yourself this - if you saw a colleague do this at your place of work what would happen to them?

In what context would you do this at work?? 

[Wolf Island]

3 minutes ago, HoldenBall said:

In what context would you do this at work?? 

I wouldn’t